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One of the things I really like with the bitcoin forums is the mixed nationalities of the posters. You got the north Americans talking about their stuff and Europeans about theirs, and the Asians trying, but failing because google translate sucks. And we all somehow get involved with each others stuff.
And I suppose the rest of the world is in here too.
For me, born way before the internet it's still mind boggling sometimes that perhaps someone in south America is reading a bitcoin forum in English with a link to a news piece in Swedish television about a crisis in Spain.
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Yeah, see my post above while you were writing yours. As you can see in that video, first Puigdemont talks about asking the parliament to suspend the independence process and keep negotiating. Then after the session ended his group and the CUP signed that document. Go figure. sorry, missed that post. |
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(SNIP) NOONE has the right to be above the law and obstruct law enforcement in a task that has been ordered by the Judges. I don't think that is allowed anywhere in the world.
Correct, but elsewhere in the world the judicial power is actually decoupled from the executive (government). Which in Spain it actually isn't - as per la Constitucion, not by some murky deal. So the court order smells like politics, and it looks a bit awkward from abroad. Luckily, actual beatings, brutality and killings were ultimately avoided - not like in Italy (G7) or France (crazy banlieues). "Decoupled" judges, however, wouldn't probably have ordered anyone to shut down the referendum. Rather, in a normally functional country (which Spain totally is), they would have tried to stifle the effectiveness of the vote by declaring it "void of effects" or something like that. "Unusual poll ordered by the Catalans at their own expense. This isn't orthodox, but OK, we know the result already."
Then "ahem, Houston, we have a problem. We, er, need to move, at least only officially." Then it would have become a matter of negotiation. "We (Spaniards) built this hospital. How much is it worth today to you Catalans?"
And then the EU. You can fill their line yourselfif you get my gist. That said... I would have put all this shitshow to an end way sooner going directly for the promoters of the rebellion. It is sad and very unfortunate things let go up to this point.
Uh... but it would smell like Franco, stir more shit. Bad move, too. Because the promoters have ample support - not total, granted, but you can't just "punish one to educate one thousand." Inflexible negotiation with unfavorable financial accounting, that is the soft way. All very valid points yes. I would argue that in Spain the judicial power is decoupled from the executive goverment. It is in fact in the constitution: The Spanish Constitution guarantees respect for the essential principles necessary for the correct functioning of the judiciary:
Impartiality: to guarantee the assured effective judicial trusteeship to all citizens by the Constitution, judges must remain impartial in cases that they judge and must abstain from cases that they have no reason to enter into.
Independence: courts and tribunals are independent of all authority or people in the exercise of jurisdictional power.
Irremovability: judges and magistrates are irremovable and cannot be removed, suspended, separated or retired without cause and with guarantees established by law.
Responsibility: judges and magistrates are personally responsible for their disciplinary infractions and crimes committed in the exercise of their office; this responsibility can only be required by the established legal disciplinary tract, without interference by the executive or legislative branches of the government or through ordinary legal proceedings.
Legality: in the exercise of their jurisdictional functions, judges and magistrates are subject to the Constitution and to the rest of the laws just as other branches of government and citizens are.
(I have cut and pasted from wikipedia in english to avoid the hassle of explaining it myself, but it is essentially correct) But... I won't really argue it because that's just the theory. I am sure the government do have (informal) influence over a at least some judges. I think that's not unlike anywhere else in the world, but I might be wrong on that. Or maybe you meant that no matter if they are theoretically decoupled but the constitution forced them to declare this "referendum" illegal anyways. On either case yep, probably the judges had no real choice there. It's a very complex and critical situation and I just hope it gets solved some day because it has lasted for too long already. Maybe a proper referendum within the law would be the solution, but even that is not that easy because, among other things, what happens with the catalonian people that does NOT want independence even if a slight or not so slight majority decided to? Suddenly they are forced into it? Maybe allow a referendum in each catalonian city where they decide if they want to secede from catalonia and remain in Spain? No matter how this finally ends, there will be millions of people hurt in some way. And going on forever with this "impass" is maybe even worse. Or not. I don't know, but I don't see any good outcome of all this situation in any case. Ultimately it seems that it is economy and business who have forced (temporarily) the suspension of this madness. Losing almost 50% of the GDP of a region is no joke at all. Anyway, coming back to topic. Is it a coincidence that Bitcoin started to rally when the menace of independence inside EU heat up and just right after they declared the process suspended price got back down? A rally would have been expected already and after a rally always comes some correction when it hit the strongest resistance but... it seems to be perfectly timed on the event. Maybe we are living this shit as some major historical moment and it is just an completely irrelevant "disturbance" in global scale. But it's not suspended, just postponed a couple of weeks, se my post right before yours. He did sign a declaration of independence, to take effect in a couple of weeks. https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=autoAt 01:28 |
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BTC ===> are weee to the mooooon yet?  //^go go gooo!! What is the opposite of that? going to Earth? |
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Yeah. Sweden not joining the euro was a very good decision, and the result of a referendum no less.
Actually, right now there is no unemployment at all for ethnic Swedes. The immigrants however is another matter, 20%+ unemployment, mostly due to none or wrong education and no language skills.
Btw, the crime rate did't spike until lately, with the influx of MENA immigrants. But don't blame me, I didn't vote for the parties that let them in.
And I do believe that every people have the right to decide their own future, be that Catalonians, Scanians Kurds or Laplanders.
Right, so we are on the same page it seems, but I was complaining because according to bitserve the EU cares about its people and democracy... Yes, same page. I would love a swexit. Snappier in Finland, fixit. Tadadum. |
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About the referendum it is indeed ilegal, as anyone that knows spanish law and constitution do inmediately realize. It was the Judges and not the government who sent the police to seize the ballot boxes.
Such laws are bull shit. Referendum for independence should be every Earthing right. And specially every Europeans right. Europe dont exist without it. It is simple as that. Countries that dont care of their citizens rights have nothing to do in Europe. Nobody living in EU would speak about Europe like that - do you live in Europe? I would. Looks from your posts you are Swedish, and bashing Sweden is way too easy! Besides, despite your spiking crime rate since you joined the EU, you don't even have the euro to enjoy unemployment like your neighbour Finns do Yeah. Sweden not joining the euro was a very good decision, and the result of a referendum no less. Actually, right now there is no unemployment at all for ethnic Swedes. The immigrants however is another matter, 20%+ unemployment, mostly due to none or wrong education and no language skills. Btw, the crime rate did't spike until lately, with the influx of MENA immigrants. But don't blame me, I didn't vote for the parties that let them in. And I do believe that every people have the right to decide their own future, be that Catalonians, Scanians Kurds or Laplanders. |
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About the referendum it is indeed ilegal, as anyone that knows spanish law and constitution do inmediately realize. It was the Judges and not the government who sent the police to seize the ballot boxes.
Illegal or not, you shouldn't beat your own people for: a) Peacefully protesting. b) Voting. I do completely agree. AFAIK noone was beaten for that (trying to vote or peacefully protesting). Police had strict orders from Judge to seize ballot boxes, the only people that were beaten were actively hindering (not sure if that is the right english word) the police job. In fact, in most the places they were not able to comply orders because it would have mean a major confrontation and put people (and police units themselves) in higher danger. It was an extremely complex operative, probably the most complex this country has ever coped with. I do also recognize this incident have had a very bad impact in international media. It would have been way better to have intervened way sooner and just arrest the promoters of the rebelion without exposing any law-abiding citizens to any innecesary risk. What possible motivation could there be for removing someones freedom of expression by using law? It is acceptable that a government may take a different view to a sub set of it's people, but it is not acceptable that a government denies those people from expressing themselves in a peaceful way, It is a common misunderstanding that freedom of expression is an unlimited freedom. It isn't. You can't publish clearly racist manifests, etc...But this is not a matter of free speech. It is a matter of breaking the law. Expressing anything (not ilegal) in a peaceful way is ok. Who has said/or done anything against that? That's a EU thing, in the US you can. and in Sweden you used to, but not anymore. And I think that's wrong, You are either allowed to speak your mind on any subjekt or you don't have free speech. Partial free speech is not free speech. Edit: erased the part my cat wrote. |
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...lol with the recent news from Russia re competing with China in Bitcon mining - coupled with the faux China ban , and taken into context with the usual bullshit the MSM spout..
This "supposed" Russia "ban"
Who could really give a flying fuck.
Not me that is for sure.
Not a single fuck given.
(Even if Putin were to come into my house and smack the hardware wallet outta my hands I would still laugh in his face)
He would do a little martial arts on you, and you would not be laughing, then ...  With current USA gun laws, if a foreigner comes and smacks anything precious out of the houseowner's hands, are you really sure it is the trespasser who's going to laugh last? "At first I only kneecapped him, but then he grabbed the hammer and threw it at me... I was really afraid for my (my wife's/my children's) safety... so I kept on shooting until he stopped moving... honest, officer." |
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About the referendum it is indeed ilegal, as anyone that knows spanish law and constitution do inmediately realize. It was the Judges and not the government who sent the police to seize the ballot boxes.
Such laws are bull shit. Referendum for independence should be every Earthing right. And specially every Europeans right. Europe dont exist without it. It is simple as that. Countries that dont care of their citizens rights have nothing to do in Europe. Nobody living in EU would speak about Europe like that - do you live in Europe? I would. |
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But what do I know, except making up numbers?   Another 6 months of bullrun is fine by me  IF this is the start of the s-curve, we are in for a 20 year bull run. |
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I get that. I also get wanting to throw an orange spanner in the works, and Ms Clinton represented the status quo establishment at it's worst to be sure.
That swamp drainin' seems to have been an empty marketing ploy however.
We need something...stronger.
Wake me up when you go full nazi.  But they do have nice uniforms. |
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 Bitcoin[log] vs Dotcom bubble[linear] Am I wishful thinking ? What is that chart supposed to show? Bitcoin can't be on a chart that ends before bitcoin was invented. And you can't put a log vs a linear graph. |
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But the problem is that once the voting was declared illegal (and it had to be because it is against Spanish Constitution)
LOL. Since when they care about law? EU (incl. Spain) funded, trained, organized, and ensured media support for the Nazi gangs in Kiev. It was a coup against democratically elected government of Ukraine and against Ukrainian Constitution. Aah, a Russian troll. I have a picture for you.  (For you Americans, it's the king of Sweden holding Vladimir Putin of Russia). |
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State-sponsored violence against the people: First in a country far from you. Then in a country near you. Finally in your country. Oh, it has been in your country for quite som while now, remember the civil war? (no, not personally). The Spanish police throwing a few people down the stairs when a state tries to secede is pretty calm compared to throwing the country into a civil war when a state wants to secede. ^^ This. But there is only ONE state in Spain. There are some people that seem to want to "secede".... We are fine with that, as long as they do it outside Spanish territory. Maybe they should move to France and try to do that stunt there... I don't think their police will be as soft with their "secesion" attempts. I think Catalonia considers themselves to be a state, I mean, they even have their own president and police. They can consider whatever they want, but it isn't. Spain has 17 "autonomous comunities" which are regions where SOME estatal (there is only ONE state: Spain) competencies have been delegated. Thus they all have their own LOCAL regional representatives... but there is only one President of the Spanish Government and one King (whose function in practice and by law is more "PR" than "ruling"). They do have a president of their region (as do have the other 16) but think about him more as the equivalent of a city major but on a regional level. Regions are not states. So this is more like if tomorrow Las Vegas tried to secede from United States. Most of spanish people is in favor of the supression of ALL autonomies for the main reason that it represents a HUGE economic burden because of the redundancy of some functions and costs. And then, there are some regions such as Cataluņa that have been as much benefited from this system that they keep "pressing" trying to obtain more and more using the constant "menace" of "independence". We are completely fed up by that attitude and many consider this is an extortion to the state that should have been put to an stop many years ago. As I understand it, president Carles Puigdemont Will deklare Catalonia independent 48 hours after a confirmed yes victory. This is how nation states are born. |
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@infofront
Isn't it time for a new poll?
price for end of the year  Dibs on 10 000 |
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State-sponsored violence against the people: First in a country far from you. Then in a country near you. Finally in your country. Oh, it has been in your country for quite som while now, remember the civil war? (no, not personally). The Spanish police throwing a few people down the stairs when a state tries to secede is pretty calm compared to throwing the country into a civil war when a state wants to secede. ^^ This. But there is only ONE state in Spain. There are some people that seem to want to "secede".... We are fine with that, as long as they do it outside Spanish territory. Maybe they should move to France and try to do that stunt there... I don't think their police will be as soft with their "secesion" attempts. I think Catalonia considers themselves to be a state, I mean, they even have their own president and police. |
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I'm not sure this is the thread to talk about firearms and it's usefulness and other crime stopping properties, but since it's being discussed, I will say "Good Guys with Guns stop Bad Guys with anything." And the famous "When Guns Are Outlawed, only Outlaws will have Guns."
I dunno about you, but if there's a zombie apocalypse or some riot right outside my house, I'd prefer to have one. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I'm biased because I'm a soldier. But whatever.
I also used to be a soldier (and still am a gun instructor) and I totally agree with you. |
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Sounds correct, anyone with an old bitcoin address balance will have that coin and thats alot of unknown people outside China. Hardly an ideal situation unless PBOC is embracing the free enterprise spirit of capitalism which despite appearances I dont think China really wants capitalism as that is all about free control of money by the people which gives them power outside of government. Central banking is a communist construct from beginnings of CCCP is one article I read and really it does fit
The Swedish central bank was founded in 1668, a bit older than the CCCP I would say. And its origin was a failed private bank (Stockholms Banco) that the state had to bail out. "Stockholms Banco collapsed as a result of the issuing of too many notes without the necessary collateral. Palmstruch, who was considered responsible for the bank's losses, was condemned to death, but later received clemency." Sounds familiar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_Riksbank |
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State-sponsored violence against the people: First in a country far from you. Then in a country near you. Finally in your country. Oh, it has been in your country for quite som while now, remember the civil war? (no, not personally). The Spanish police throwing a few people down the stairs when a state tries to secede is pretty calm compared to throwing the country into a civil war when a state wants to secede. |
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