That's exactly what I proposed to Sirius. I think anything less than "members.*" would leave too much room for fraud.

@OP: Wow, a newbie post done right.

@capa: shut up.

http://wikileaks.org/Transcript-Meeting-Assange-Schmidt.html#688 

Yea, usually when someone says "X worth" they are referring to the purchasing medium or measuring reference.

He's looking for $3,000~$4,000 worth.

Found it! http://wikileaks.org/Transcript-Meeting-Assange-Schmidt.html

Now no one has to look at that horrible design at bitbitcoins.com 

Yea, if someone paid 101BTC for a rig + PSU + shipping, then it wouldn't break even until they got 101BTC back. How long does it take to make 101BTC at current projections? (85Gh/s)

Exactly how I put it.

Damn straight, and while we're add it "risk of loss due to user error"/reversibility

As a payment method, it can't, but as a value liquidizer, it almost certainly can, at least as much as drug abuse can be stopped by governments (read: not very effectively with lots of casualties, but still makes it a pain in the ass to use and most businesses won't touch it at that point).

I'll add it because I think it's a valid point, but as with "transaction limits", I need to put an asterisk because the limit of the USD transaction depends on your ability to liquidate that value, else the value is not accurate. ($50 per coin isn't really $50 per coin if by selling 1 coin it drops to $49).

FTFY.

You should do comedy, it'll be more profitable.

Please read the title. "DWOLLA vs Paypal vs Bitcoin". It is simple enough to list characteristics for each (which is what is being done here). We don't need to list "why bitcoin is the best". Bitcoin is not the best for many, many people in many, many situations. If you'd like to add something to the table to *compare*, please list those things and I'd be ecstatic to add them. FYI, "it will crush governments", "you can avoid paying legal taxes", etc are political opinions not clear benefits.


BOOM! There's a good criteria to add. "Ease of donations".

Well, it falls into the cultism of bitcoin to be honest. Anything that isn't bitcoin-like should be killed with fire according to them, and I admit, anything that requires trust seems like a step *backward*, except that our current system requires IMMENSE trust (MtGox, AurumXChange, both whom steal funds from their users under the guise of AML, BitStamp, BTC-E, etc etc etc).

They *think* their cryptocurrency is trust-less, yet they get hacked all the time and lose their wallets (because they needed to trust someone with their password and that someone, whether it be the third party or their own computer, was hacked). There is no world without trust. It's fine to consider Bitcoin the end-all like gold, but when choosing to trust either Ripple/OpenTransactions+BitMessage vs an exchange run by a dude, which one is better? Is either one a "scam" just because it isn't "provably fair" at the moment?

The general arguments against using Ripple are fine if all you want is a reason not to use it, but there is no reason to "destroy it", and that's when you know someone is playing games and has an agenda-- when they are actively trying to destroy something or someone that isn't causing any harm. This forum HAS degenerated, because the administrator himself supports such games (supports ponzi schemes, added TradeFortress to his trust list, refuses to give a scammer tag to BFL, has millions of dollars in bitcoins for forum upgrades that haven't even begun to happen in 12 months, continues to pile in the money from advertisements he knows are libelous against companies/people, etc).

The user below this post thinks he's doing the world a favor by trying to insult me I guess, but this kind of insult is baseless, tactless, and only serves to show you the vapid lack of quality in communication here. You can make fun of some newbie's English all day long, or tell them they should RTFM, but the real problem here is people like Inaba who spend their efforts arguing with BFL customers that they're doing a good job when any honest person could prove otherwise.

Wanna know who is causing the degeneration? Look for the people who don't admit their mistakes.

Common sense? I'm not trying to make the case for bitcoin, I'm trying to compare DWOLLA/Paypal/Bitcoin.

You had proposed a few more lines for the table, which was great, then you made it a fanboy rant with this last comment (who gives a shit about threatening wealth? we're comparing money services), so I'd like to outline some sensical discussion guidelines for this thread:

• how bitcoin is different from DWOLLA/Paypal
• what parts of this list need corrections
• additional points to add to the table

Please leave the fanboy/cultism at the door on this one.

Thanks

It sounds like you want me to make it lean to sound like bitcoin is better (which it isn't in some cases). Regardless, I'd agree to include more points in the list of course.

Not to defend him (first I've heard of him), but you really should provide links of evidence/proof in your initial accusations and always assume no one has any idea who the person is when making accusations.

Example:

"He used John K's fake escrow signature, continues to troll and attempts scamming, has multiple¹ accusations². It needs to be ended"

It also happens to Ripple threads that decry it as a scam. "I agree! RIPLE MUST BE A SCAM" -User with 1 post who created an account 2 seconds earlier

I'll start the ball rolling with the actual text (plus some more of my own) of the infographic in a table format as well as the bitcoin column (which I want to fill out with the help of people here).

____________________________	DWOLLA________	PAYPAL________	BITCOIN________
Founded	2010	1998	2009
Cost to move a million $	< $10 = free; > $10 = $0.25	2.9% + $0.30	Free ~ $0.13
Scope of availability	USA only	190 countries (CC)	Intergallactic
Mass pay	2,000	250	Infinate
Mobile	Free app	CC Device + App with fees	Free app
Transaction limits	$5,000 (Personal) $10,000 (Business) $99,000,000 (Special case)	$10,000	$2,801,000,000* (21,000,000 @ $133.40) *This assumes liquidity available
Key Similarities	Mobile & Web Apps Guest Checkout support Send Money via the Internet Innovative API	Mobile & Web Apps Guest Checkout support Send Money via the Internet Innovative API	Mobile & Web Apps Guest Checkout support (BitPay) Send Money via the Internet Innovative API
Bigger Picture	Centralized	Federated (Centralized)	Decentralized
Regulated by	Strict US Law	Many countries' laws (strict)	Developers and free market
Backed by	US Dollar + Company assets / insurance	Multiple currencies + Company assets / insurance	Available liquidity of the free market
Donations	No restrictions (yet)	Heavily restricted	Unrestricted
Vulnerability to Force Majeure	High	Medium/High	Usage: None Liquidating: Medium
Micropayment Usability	Perfect	To/From Personal: Perfect To/From Business: Atrocious	Great (May have immense network delays if sent for free)
Ease of Daily Use	Not bad	Not bad	Perfect
Learning Curve	Not bad	Not bad	Anti-user friendly
Transactions Reversible	by Management	by Users	by Developers and free market
Transparency	Involved Parties only	Involved Parties only	Public

I'm far from the delusional cultist that is somewhat of a norm on these forums as I can clearly see Bitcoin both succeeding and failing at the same time and appreciate (not fear) any and all healthy competitors and innovations in the payments industry brought on by Bitcoin's initial first steps.

That said, I couldn't help but snidely snicker and snort when looking at this DWOLLA spam sent to me this morning and thinking of what that infographic would look like if there were a third column, "Bitcoin". Since I'm looking up currency laws in the UK, any one else want to waste some time on photoshopping this bitch?

http://lemon.ly/work/a-tale-of-two-payment-startups-dwolla-vs-paypal