That is terribly naive, @aminorex.
when, in this corrupt world, has any improvement ever been obtained except by a robust, educated, diligent and sacrificial naivete? I can agree with that. But putting one's hopes on a technological "deus ex machina" is weak and lazy naiveté, not robust and diligent naiveté... It may represent a "deus ex machina" to you but to others it represents, at the very least, a strong chance at achieving a profound paradigm shift. If people would just begin to understand the current system of currency, its issuance and its control, -- I think bitcoin might be able to put that tickle into their brains where they at least start to think about it. |
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finally, a voice of reason.
Hmm. Id prefer you not project all that on me. But I have never posted a train picture before. I wonder if anyone besides me sees why this is a good day to post one? apologies. not trying to project anything. anyone besides you? well I can only talk for me. /// personally I just removed my lowest bid on the tranche to replace the bids that got eaten on the last dip.. I am hopeful that the price will go lower, and fearful that it might not. |
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CCMF  finally, a voice of reason. |
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alright, it's official. dogecoin can go to the moon, litecoin too, but bitcoin is going to the sun!
I am strapping on new wax wings as we speak. Unfortunately they keep melting every time bitcoin flies too high. just because the wax melts, do you throw away the design of the wing? If it is good enough for Icarus it's good enough for me. It is way more fun to shoot at the sun with fresh wax wings every six months than it would be to slowly climb the long term trend. Not sure that flying too close to the sun is the best metaphor to sell an emerging technology though. what I'm trying to say is that Satoshi already designed the wing. all we need to do is develop the wax that lets the wing fly. as for the sun... http://youtu.be/czNxV8wZSnc?t=1m35s |
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alright, it's official. dogecoin can go to the moon, litecoin too, but bitcoin is going to the sun!
I am strapping on new wax wings as we speak. Unfortunately they keep melting every time bitcoin flies too high. just because the wax melts, do you throw away the design of the wing? |
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If you don't want public funds embezzled, require that all government spending be on-chain. Anyone who actually wants democratic accountability should be all over that. If your political opponent objects, well then, prima facie, he is corrupt.
If you want elected officials to be accountable for the source of their financial support, require that political donations be on-chain.
If you want assurance that taxes are paid, require that all taxable transactions occur on-chain, and all tax payments be made on-chain.
The Department of Defense [sic] would not have been unable to account for those 2.3 trillion USD reported mislaid on 10 Sept 2001, if those transactions had been on-chain, and events which ensued as a consequence would not have derived.
That is terribly naive, @aminorex. In many democratic countries, the law already requires that all government spending be properly accounted and made available to the public. Even in my own. But embezzling of public funds is never so trivial as a public officer writing a check to himself. The most common and efficient method is overbudgeting some large project and then having the contractor deposit a kickback in some offshore account. (Last year the 3 past Governors of the State of São Paulo, all of the same opposition party, were found to have received several hundred million dollars in kickbacks from Alstom and Siemens, from contracts for the São Paulo metro. Then, to counteract that bad news, the opposition found that an executive in the oil company Petrobrás, controlled by the federal government, bought a refinery in Pasadena that was good only for scrap, and apparently got a fat kickback on that. And those are only two of literally thousands of similar cases, at all levels of government.) There other methods too (like, internet gawkers found last year that an apartment in Miami was sold for US$ 10 to a Brazilian Supreme Court judge), but all are of course designed to not show up in the public spending records. Ditto for political donations, taxable transactions, etc.. The law requires that they be declared, but of course people who violate donation and tax laws violate the reporting laws too. The same would happen if the law required all such transactions to be made in bitcoin -- those willing to make illegal payments would not use bitcoin, or would use accounts that cannot be connected to them. As for the military/CIA/NSA/FBI/etc., they would surely get exemptions from a "blockchain law" for national security reasons, with broad public support -- just as they now get exemptions from FOIA and external supervision. It is a mistake that tech people make time and time again: to believe that a social/political problem can be solved by technology alone. Without a social/political change, a technological "solution" will always be blocked, or co-opted and turned into part of the problem. Bitcoin will not stop the banks from running the world; only an energic and lasting political effort could do that. dude, when the RFC's (request for contract up here in canuckistan) and the bid proposals for public projects are made in transparent terms, then at least we can only blame ourselves. I think that's all we're really asking for. *edit to address this part - "Bitcoin will not stop the banks from running the world; only an energic and lasting political effort could do that." Bitcoin may indeed be the catalyst for the energetic and lasting political effort that I think we would all like to see. |
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... to the sun?
But, soft! what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Bitcoin is the sun. Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon, Who is already sick and pale with grief, That thou her maid art far more fair than she: Be not her maid, since she is envious; Her fiat livery is but sick and green And none but fools do wear it; cast it off. alright, it's official. dogecoin can go to the moon, litecoin too, but bitcoin is going to the sun!I actually like the metaphor (not sure that's the right term) of bitcoin = sun. bitcoin = sun = light = out in the open = no secrets done under cover of darkness *paraphrasing* "for the world is generally opposed to secret societies which can only do their business under cover of darkness" - *I think i remember some guy saying something like that once upon a time.*bitcoin is the eternal sun shining upon any and all transactions that the transactors wish to be made public. |
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<snip>
Just asking - seriously - does it not concern anyone that the markets are following an exchange whose CEO recently said in an interview they are looking at options either to move offshore and/or separate themselves COMPLETELY from receiving fiat deposits? A CEO that has apparently stopped leveraged trading and will impose restrictions and fees on HFT in response to a banking system that we know is slowly but surely tightening it noose around all deposit options?
THIS ^^^ is what we are hanging this new "bull market" on?
Look, I want BTC to be worth 10K+ as much as anyone here, but how in the world are the current state of affairs bullish?
the actions of off-shore exchanges is a little-bit concerning, but for some countries, they have established bitcoin exchange for almost 3 years now, not many countries, but still... at least in Canada they have an exchange that is actively able to deposit and debit your bank account directly to and from the exchange and then into or out of whatever currency you like from there. the limitations for virtex are that you limit your transactions to CAD-only, and that you transact with only Canadian residents. it limits the chance for fraud greatly, as this method greatly limits the anonymity of the perpetrators of deceit. (*until it is revealed that virtex has been running a fractional reserve system all these years, in which case, we're screwed.*) **edit** I think the truly trustless systems are at least 2 years into the future. |
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I'm afraid to ask, but, what happens in wave #6?
TERA contemplates covering his short I buy U HODL!!!!!!!!! I fear the vertical move. I feel it is coming, but I don't know when. I get the feeling that when this downtrend breaks to the upside, it might be a violent move. |
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I'm afraid to ask, but, what happens in wave #6? |
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I can foresee a future where a decentralized, distributed, public record of public funds would have some demand and therefore some value in this world.
If you don't want public funds embezzled, require that all government spending be on-chain. Anyone who actually wants democratic accountability should be all over that. If your political opponent objects, well then, prima facie, he is corrupt. If you want elected officials to be accountable for the source of their financial support, require that political donations be on-chain. If you want assurance that taxes are paid, require that all taxable transactions occur on-chain, and all tax payments be made on-chain. that is exactly what I want. everyone should be pushing for this, demand this from your elected officials. it's not excessive, it's morally right. |
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There's a good chance that once bitcoin is integrated with wallstreet, 'investing' in bitcoin is going to molded to fit in with every state law and inefficiency in with the existing system that bitcoin was created to avoid. I'd be suprised if the network itself was even used for anything useful at that point. Bitcoiners are sellouts. Everything is about raising the price and to-da-moon and deep down they just care about fiat.
The success of bitcoin as an investment is inextricably bound up with its addition of social value as a political instrument. Personally I think bitcoin has turned into social and political poison, but will be no less successful as an investment for all that. There will be some good that comes of it -- after all, *some* people *should* drink poison -- but most of that burden will fall upon a successor which is actually and persistently decentralized and anonymous. And again, when that successor arises, its success in fulfilling those hopes will be inextricably bound up with its success as an investment. If a job opens up reading the inscription over the gates of hell to any blind persons being admitted, I will certainly recommend TERA to the position. hello animorex, so glad you dropped by, a question/observation if I may. bitcoin architecture is - from the ground up - not so good for anonymous, but great for transparency. I can foresee a future where a decentralized, distributed, public record of public funds would have some demand and therefore some value in this world. your comments or ideas on that thought are much appreciated... |
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Does anyone really expect chinese exchanges to adhere to their joint statement?
in that they refuse to go to bitcoin-promoting conference? In that they cease and desist any kind of overt bitcoin promotion? yes. |
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Prediction, in 3 years all the wealth in the world will belong to the Chinese bitcoin miners.  come on now prof, that's hardly an academic study. I know you just post here for the funzies, but I could predict that in the next 3 years half the global population could be wiped out and I think my prediction might actually be more likely than yours... |
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There's a good chance that once bitcoin is integrated with wallstreet, 'investing' in bitcoin is going to molded to fit in with every state law and inefficiency in with the existing system that bitcoin was created to avoid. I'd be suprised if the network itself was even used for anything useful at that point. Bitcoiners are sellouts. Everything is about raising the price and to-da-moon and deep down they just care about fiat.
Hey now, I said I was getting a bit jaded, but that's downright apocalyptic. you might be right about bitcoin, but I think the blockchain idea is out of the bag now, and once public and charitable organizations begin to realize the benefits of being able to be completely transparent in their finances, I hope that they will see the advantage of that and this idea of accountable money will begin to take hold. |
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Bitcoin is a symbol, a metaphor, a belief That we are growing beyond the need for government, we have learnt that we can govern ourselves. This thought, understanding, realization is only now propagating through the global consciousness. China's firewall can slow this progress but it cannot stop it. I choose to go to the MOON!  I'm confused. On one hand the bulls argue for bitcoin to be this free renegade anarchist currency. Then on the other hand, the same bulls are all about getting wall street involved, government invovled, regulations, oversight, aml/kyc, and paper-traded etfs. etc. I guess whatever concept provokes the most price increase in the context of the topic at hand is the right one to use for them. personally I've grown a bit jaded lately. I cringe now when I hear people trying to pimp bitcoin on the masses. I don't think the masses are ready for bitcoin, and vice-versa. I do not like the path we seem to be taking with all the regulation and stuff, but if it gains enough acceptance, within the mainstream (politicians now accepting donations in bitcoin) -- this might allow for a blockchain-like accounting scheme for government programs. Even if that is the only thing we get out of this, I would consider Satoshi's experiment a success. |
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Bitcoin is a symbol, a metaphor, a belief That we are growing beyond the need for government, we have learnt that we can govern ourselves. This thought, understanding, realization is only now propagating through the global consciousness. China's firewall can slow this progress but it cannot stop it. I choose to go to the MOON! I love Canadians. They're so idealistic. perhaps even charmingly naive. |
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The more you try to damage an anti-fragile system, the stronger it becomes. -you can quote me on that *edit* I love how you can't change your avatar, even if you wanted to. It's so draconian. |
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News like that make me want to cancel all my open bids and just hit market buy. discipline is holding me back. |
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 that is the long term bottom line that I see. (CAD/BTC) I have no idea if it will be final support, if it may be broken? (but I don't think so) anyways, I think each of you are on an exchange that shows a similar support level. when prices drop to that level, I buy, otherwise, I wait. if this is the end of low prices, so be it. it's not the end of the world. if prices smash down through this bottom line, so be it, it's not the end of the world... everybody just relax and remember that we are all one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaGUr6wzyT8:edit 2 to fix chart for better lines: |
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First Turkey shut down youtube etc...now China tries to mute Bitcoin....
