And good riddance!
No more botnet mining. Leave that for litecoin - the ultimate botnet currency.
Sorry, I don't understand. Are you saying that litecoin is susceptible to botnets? If *(when?)* all those GPU's that made the bitcoin network pretty much botnet proof get switched over to litecoin, then botnets won't be a problem - at least not for litecoin. Actually, at over $2 each, they look pretty strong. Remember when bitcoin was $2? and the agonizing wait where it sat in the sub 10 range? I'm not sure that there is a place for digital silver in a digital gold world, but litecoin does offer a decently strong hashrate to protect itself from attack. Litecoin also shares almost identical properties to bitcoin, as far as it's use as a form of money. non-counterfeitability, durability, divisibility, and transportablity. I predict *(hope?)* we will see some of the guys who are doing the aftermarket ASIC boards start to look at scrypt fpga's, (which might be pricy, but they've got to be able to get better efficiency than a video card.) Not sure if it could translate to asic, I would think you'd need a massive amount of extremely quick memory to make that work, but I don't know much about scrypt. |
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Presumably some other random $bullshitcoin
LOL, you guys don't know anything about bitcoin, do you? Haha that is one of the funniest things posted in a long time about me, thanks. I'm laughing so hard right now, I have tears in my eyes. |
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I think you'll find a very diverse set of answers to this question.
Personally, I wanted to build a nice pile of bitcoin that I would not touch for many years (betting that these coins would be worth much more if bitcoin were still around in 10 years) that pile started out quite big and recently has become quite small. (sold a bunch when the price went ballistic and spent some more on some ASIC's)
Now my pile of bitcoin is much smaller than I would like and I do not plan on letting go of any more bitcoin until at least the next block halving (other than the occasional small purchase from bitmit or what-have-you)
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The perspective is you need to chill, seems like you're taking it personally that someone thinks bitfury's design is better, which is pretty much irrelevant. KnC's are cheaper, come with a case and are pre-configured and plug and play. Obviously a better deal.
But they'll likely need to go for a full custom core to compete with other 28nm chips in the future.
One still doesn't exist though So if that's what you're saying, why even make a thread about a non-existent chip then??? SIGH nevermind well... he sort of does have a point. You started the discussion comparing their supposed claimed values. Only to point out one doesn't exist when someone gives the knc chip's advantage. If we're gonna "stay on topic" all we can do really is hypothetically compare the two which is assumed when you started the thread... just saying. Exactly. Kind of makes you wonder what are the motivations for the OP starting a thread such as this. I'd be interested to hear the answer to plasmoske's question. (or at least a better answer than "nevermind") |
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<snip>
The other problem is that the ASICs actually get quite hot, even with the closed loop water cooler. The only TIM pads I had laying around was a roll of 3M 5590H, and while it's decent stuff for most applications the 0.5mm thick 3.0W/mK really isn't effective enough for the kind of heat load these chips put out. I'll have to order some 0.5mm 12-17W/mK material, and I might be adventurous and try it with just grease.
I cut the other stuff even though it's awesome. I'm curious to see how level the chips are, if you're using paste on an 8 chip design there's a pretty good chance at least one of those chips is not going to get adequate cooling. I was thinking that regular paste might work with a 4 chip design. I'm somewhat disappointed that a 4 chip board hasn't been explored/tested a little more seriously. OTOH, if you can get optimum results from an 8 chip board, then that is -of course- better..  That being said, I have great confidence in this project, pending the actual delivery of chips. Thanks for all your hard work. |
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Hanau450? I don't get that  I don't either, but it looks really cool! |
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I've read your posts, here are a few cooling ideas: 1. Squirrel cage fans: These things are ideal for being ducted in tight spaces, the graphic cards folks love them. I've also used them (as suction fans) on horizontal heatsinks -- the updraft design is not ideal, but not horrible either, and lets you route the exhaust very easily. 2. If you're stuck with the provided coolers, and are running the gear at home, with the cover off, consider rotating the front boards 180 degrees (actually, just swap the fans to the other side), so the fans are blowing out of the front & inhaling from the center. You'd have to also flip the front case fans (if any), so they're blowing out. Scrap (probably unbolt?) the new case divider baffles. 3. If the rates are going up as fast as they are now, it's important to have the absolute minimum of initial downtime, so simple fan-flips (and the push-pull fan arrangement you've mentioned) sounds like the way to fly Thanks crumbs. When you say "squirrel cage fans" I assume you mean the blower type fans like on the reference ATI GPU's? I must agree these fans are awesome (I have some 7970's with this system and it is great) Those would definitely work, but that seems a costly and time consuming solution, and as you mention, downtime is a big deal... It's all pie in the sky right now until they actually deliver but thanks again for some good ideas! (*edit*) - on second read, I would likely go with your option #2. remove the case , flip the fans on the first 2, and remove the front intake fans and position them above the gap in between the front and rear hashing units to supply fresh air. |
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And still, there are tons of people who just wait and refuse to ask refunds.
I'm not sure if I find that more hilarous or more terrifying...
I must admit, I am one of the "tons of people who just wait and refuse to ask refunds." A little background might be in order, I did order from BFL, once I failed to get an order in the first round of the avalon batch 2 clusterf**k (Feb 2 I think?) I panicked and placed an order with BFL. -- a couple weeks later avalon re-opened their batch 2 order (Feb 18 I think?) and I was able to get in on that *(thanks to the ASIC gods, that order actually arrived and reached 100% ROI less than 2 months after arriving) Since it now seems that BFL is slowly working through the backlog, I am still confident enough that when/if I finally receive my order I should be able to mine a commensurate amount of BTC when compared to the fiat price I paid. (which at the time was half the price that they later started charging) I hope this will clarify the thought process of at least one of the "tons of people who just wait and refuse to ask refunds."(*edit*) - I will of course seek a refund if this fiasco stretches on beyond the end of October. |
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I am definitely planning on either modifying the case or building a new one, I do not like what they have done with that layout, (though I do not particularly care. Please do not bother to try and fix this KNC, just worry about the chips, and ship as soon as possible)
I'm not really gonna start anything until my Jupiter arrives, but here are some initial thoughts:
- Put an additional fan on those heatsinks for push-pull action. - In my experience with those kind of heatsinks this is usually good for 2-3 C reduction in temps.
- Aim the fans directly towards the case exhaust. - Still can't think of an easy way to do this with the current case. Someone already mentioned turning the heatsinks 90 degrees and blowing out the sides. Maybe this would be good, but I prefer linear airflow, It's tough to know what's really going on inside the case and sometimes you will create dead zones where the heat just pools up and does not escape.
- Keep the PSU external - This alone has dropped the temps in my avalon by 4-5 degrees, less constricted airflow is a good thing.
- - - come to think of it, I think tolip_wen had the right idea by ordering Saturns. It's a really huge case for just 2 hashing units, but it's a much cleaner design.
Very interested to see what others will come up with for alternate case design.
(*edit- I would actually prefer if KNC would just ship me the controller board and the hashing units individually packaged. They can keep the case. Less hassle for them (no need to assemble) less shipping cost probably, and less chance of damage while shipping. Does anyone know if they would offer this as an option?
Of course not, by all means modify the case. I want to run a MAME cabinet around mine, it's a great functional and aesthetically pleasing way to disguise the units housed at home instead of an ugly pointless server cab, but KnC aren't about to perform individual requests as they scale a production line to complete all orders in two weeks, that would be crazy, and no one here would be happy with such bespoke requests. We all just want our kit sooner, rather than later, boring brown paper surrounding bubble wrap and aluminium, not individually hand packaged for the odd request with pink bows and ribbons. Their case is basic and does what it says on the tin. It's not for winning beauty contests. I'd forgive BFL a little for their aesthetic choice had they not royally screwed everything they possibly could with respect to power and heat, because BTC hadn't blown up at their point of ASIC conception, it was still a geeks wet dream and time wasn't a monster factor. After Cyprus it has been, which is why XCrowd's fake offering was laughable. The fact BFL still place aesthetics over function is moronic. None of the competitors have any ASIC hardware experience - as in hardware aside, and supporting the chip, i.e. supplying power and controlling heat, which is why Hashfast and Cointerra will not reach their simulated performance claims. It's also why they are dumping chips over building products, it males their life easier and puts the onus on some other poor sod. By all means they are welcome to surprise me, but what few products they will build will likely not survive in the long term if they aim to deliver on their simulated claims, again this is why you'd want rid of warranty, because that kind of heat will significantly reduce the stability and lifetime of the chip. Bold marketing claims and performance longevity do not go hand in hand. KnC aim to under power their design and over deliver on their claims, sure you can push it if you want, but do that gently as with any product that runs 24/7, extreme power and heat kill chips. I think we have a bit of a communication disconnect going on here. I do not want " individually hand packaged for the odd request with pink bows and ribbons." I want them to simply ship me the boards (I can supply the pink bows and ribbons myself - thank you very much  All I'm saying is that I think their case design is substandard, and I will likely be throwing it in the trash as soon as it arrives. Why go through the bother (and I think extra chance for damage while shipping of those chips or boards attached only to the base of the case with no support from the top or sides as it seems to be.) Just put those boards into some well cushioned boxes and ship them. no need to assemble. If anything it would speed up shipping. They can just set the chips in the boards, test them for however long, then ship them. do you get me now? |
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Now inclusive of custom-made case!
Do check out my Bitmit auction for escrow.
I just gotta say, I love this kind of DIY/hacker type stuff. I have enough old mining rigs that have been converted to LTC that I'm not in the market for this kind of thing, but good luck with your endeavour! |
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You're kidding right?  Dude. I personally think a bitcoin museum is an AWESOME idea. If it becomes a physical reality I plan to take a vacation to go and see it! (the fact that it will most likely be in Australia, which I've never visited, is just a bonus (*edit for DobZombie*) - it would be extra cool if the museum had all the ancient mining devices still running. expensive on electricity I'm sure, but the cool factor would be much higher! |
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Keith from KNC says: There has been a slight revision in our casing that we had neglected to previously explain.
The case has had an airflow improvement to ensure increased thermal efficiency.
We have ensured the hot air from the front two heatsinks is redirected, avoiding the rear chips, and is expelled from the casing by installing fins affixed to the upper casing section (despite appearing in the CAD as part of the lower section of casing). In turn this allows a sufficient amount of cool air exits to ensure a cooler operating environment for the rear heatsinks to operate comfortably. http://forum.kncminer.com/filedata/fetch?photoid=591What I don't understand is why they didn't make a wider case with all four modules side by side instead of trying to direct the air with baffles. I agree with the linear idea but at least they started thinking about thermal airflow now. I just wish they had started sooner like when I first mentioned it looking at the CAD pics. OK, just been thinking about this problem for a bit and my best idea so far is to use a "double-decker" design. 2 hashing units, side-by-side, with the other two sitting on top. Allows for a cube type case, allows 4 intake fans (or perhaps just one big box-fan) and a very simple, straight-through airflow. Might not fit in a standard rack but it's incredibly more efficient and clean design. |
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And on the KNC forum, some industiral design professor got his students to test the airflow of the case design. His thoughts: "I just put a team on this new setup and ran tests it looks like it has 3 high pressure areas that disrupt airflow so far it looks lie you will need to use 3 fans in the front mount the controller on end and move the two ASIC closer to the front. this will allow more cool air in and give a bit longer run for the airflow channel to minimize the high presser buildup (any high presser = hot spots )" http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/590-case-revisionIs anyone interested in or planning in building their own case, where the airflow is optimised? I guess the above is a good start I am definitely planning on either modifying the case or building a new one, I do not like what they have done with that layout, (though I do not particularly care. Please do not bother to try and fix this KNC, just worry about the chips, and ship as soon as possible) I'm not really gonna start anything until my Jupiter arrives, but here are some initial thoughts: - Put an additional fan on those heatsinks for push-pull action. - In my experience with those kind of heatsinks this is usually good for 2-3 C reduction in temps. - Aim the fans directly towards the case exhaust. - Still can't think of an easy way to do this with the current case. Someone already mentioned turning the heatsinks 90 degrees and blowing out the sides. Maybe this would be good, but I prefer linear airflow, It's tough to know what's really going on inside the case and sometimes you will create dead zones where the heat just pools up and does not escape. - Keep the PSU external - This alone has dropped the temps in my avalon by 4-5 degrees, less constricted airflow is a good thing. - - - come to think of it, I think tolip_wen had the right idea by ordering Saturns. It's a really huge case for just 2 hashing units, but it's a much cleaner design. Very interested to see what others will come up with for alternate case design. (*edit- I would actually prefer if KNC would just ship me the controller board and the hashing units individually packaged. They can keep the case. Less hassle for them (no need to assemble) less shipping cost probably, and less chance of damage while shipping. Does anyone know if they would offer this as an option? |
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So what would you guys want to see in the shipping configuration:
A) surface-mounted pair of resistors
B) tamper-evident trim-pot
C) software-programmable voltage divider.
I would vote C if they would offer warranty under those allowances, but otherwise... I'd vote for B. Usually I'll run something at default settings for a few days or weeks until I'm fairly sure it's gonna be ok. (no excessive heat or hot spots, funny smells, etc...) Then I'll try to OC the hell out of that something. In my world, it's still nice to have some kind of warranty, but I don't want to be locked in. |
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external PSU is such a non-issue, I removed the PSU from my avalon after three days to place it outside the case (and got a couple degrees cooler performance by doing so)
I just hope those edges are very well rounded or they include some kind of rubber grommet for that access slot. I have visions of shorted wires when I look at that thing.
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100,000 shares for a block? meh, bad luck
150,000 shares?? must be really bad luck (went back 40 pages on the block history, never found a block over 150K)
278,000 shares? I begin to think something might be broken...
I'm certain that there will probably be a string of 10 blocks in less than 10 hours after this monster... but it's just so far above normal, like double the previous worst case scenario.
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lol, that escalated quickly |
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Tomorrow will make 15 weeks since I made my payment.
It's strange how $75k order does not even get you a phone number and personal account manager on Avalon's side, isn't it... I think what's going on right now is that they have realized that they will be unable to maintain their "leader" position in ASIC development and they are trying to milk the network as much as they can delaying the shipments knowing that they will effectively decrease their network share. And I for one hope that K&C and bitfury devices start shipping on time so then both Avalon and BFL will never ever get another customer. Question? How would they "milk" the network by not delivering chips that have already been paid for? Answer? (more of a guess actually, a thought experiment of supposition) Let's suppose that Avalon did indeed invest in their new SMT line to speed the assembly of mining devices. Why then, with all that added production capacity would you decide to cease selling units? Perhaps by charging a well-deserved markup on the chips they designed, they are able to order 2 or 3 times as many chips as the customers are paying for. This would allow them to keep a great number of chips and use their fancy new SMT line to manufacture a whole lot of ASIC miners for themselves... It's all just supposition, but that is one way that they could "milk" the network by delaying delivery... just sayin' |
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How would one go about buying one of these bad boys?
Simply jump in your Delorian, dial the flux capacitor to 1.21 Gigawatts, set your target to Feb 18, 2013 and floor it. |
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Has anyone tried 375mhz air cooled?
I've been running at over 24 hours stable at 350mhz (105Gh-120Gh), and I'm getting that itch to try and bump it up a little more. I'm not sure if Avalon changed something to make it more stable overclocked or not and wondering you batch 1/2 guys experience with pushing over 350mhz.
I've been considering the best way to determine a sweet spot for my avalon... currently running at 343 (it just "feels" like a nice balance between hashrate and HW errors), but now I'm getting that overclocking itch once again. I'm trying to devise a method that is slightly more scientific than my gut feel. Perhaps it could even be integrated into some kind of algorithm that could be added to the firmware to improve the auto speed setting? I don't know if that's even possible. Also I'm not really sure what a lot of the numbers mean in the web interface cgminer status tab, so I'm just guessing at a lot of this. Corrections to my assumptions/mistakes would be appreciated. So, I'm just guessing at what all those numbers really mean, but here's what I'm thinking. if: HW = Hardware errors Diff1Shares = equivalent number of shares if submitting at difficulty 1 (not sure whether to use this or DiffA ? ) MHSav = MH/s average then: EHR = Effective Hash Rate = MHSav - ( MHSav * ( HW / Diff1Shares ) ) So, what I'm gonna do is just keep increasing or decreasing my Frequency until I can find maximum EHR. Makes sense? DiffA is what work you get paid for as in accepted shares. OK, what I'm unsure about is whether it is more accurate to use accepted shares or total submitted shares... my thinking is that total shares would remove the variance of the latency or other problems with the pool, so they might be more accurate? But I am unsure of how the total shares are calculated... perhaps they include some types of hardware related problems and that is what causes them to not be accepted? Still unsure on this, maybe I will run numbers on both, maybe the difference is trivial in the end? |
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