Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[shmadz]

And on the KNC forum, some industiral design professor got his students to test the airflow of the case design. His thoughts:

"I just put a team on this new setup and ran tests it looks like it has 3 high pressure areas that disrupt airflow
so far it looks lie you will need to use 3 fans in the front mount the controller on end and move the two ASIC closer to the front.

this will allow more cool air in and give a bit longer run for the airflow channel to minimize the high presser buildup (any high presser = hot spots )"

http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/590-case-revision

Is anyone interested in or planning in building their own case, where the airflow is optimised? I guess the above is a good start  

I am definitely planning on either modifying the case or building a new one, I do not like what they have done with that layout, (though I do not particularly care. Please do not bother to try and fix this KNC, just worry about the chips, and ship as soon as possible)


I'm not really gonna start anything until my Jupiter arrives, but here are some initial thoughts:

 - Put an additional fan on those heatsinks for push-pull action. - In my experience with those kind of heatsinks this is usually good for 2-3 C reduction in temps.

 - Aim the fans directly towards the case exhaust. - Still can't think of an easy way to do this with the current case. Someone already mentioned turning the heatsinks 90 degrees and blowing out the sides. Maybe this would be good, but I prefer linear airflow, It's tough to know what's really going on inside the case and sometimes you will create dead zones where the heat just pools up and does not escape.

 - Keep the PSU external - This alone has dropped the temps in my avalon by 4-5 degrees, less constricted airflow is a good thing.

 - - - come to think of it, I think tolip_wen had the right idea by ordering Saturns. It's a really huge case for just 2 hashing units, but it's a much cleaner design.

Very interested to see what others will come up with for alternate case design.

(*edit- I would actually prefer if KNC would just ship me the controller board and the hashing units individually packaged. They can keep the case. Less hassle for them (no need to assemble) less shipping cost probably, and less chance of damage while shipping. Does anyone know if they would offer this as an option?

[joae1975]

I also need to purchase a UPS to protect my miners. I was thinking of something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842106116

I like this, thanks!  Battery back up is pretty cool. I wander how well that works.  
I bought this PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171078
It was ~$50 cheaper when I got it.  I think we're driving up the price.

Edit:  APC makes some really good power protection products.  Problem is there are so many and I have no clue how to shop for one.  I may give them a call to see which one would be best for a Jupiter or two.  Also, no need for a battery back up now that I think of it.  If your power goes out, so does your internet.  With KNC products having internal mining software, how would this work?  Does it keep trying to connect to the internet without intervention?  I'm sure these questions can't be answered right away.  So I'm going to wait on this purchase.  Surge protectors are all we should need for now.

that's not right. If your power goes out but both your modem and router are on a UPS as well, why would your internet go out? I am mining with network devices backed by a UPS as well and I do not loose internet during a power outage. At least as long as the UPS can feed the beasts. You will need a beefy server-grade one like a SmartUPS.

Hope this helps,
   T

Well, in my experience/neighborhood, when my power goes out, so does the whole neighborhood and the internet.  I have Comcast and that's what happens, but I understand your point.

[Vedran Yoweri]

Well, in my experience/neighborhood, when my power goes out, so does the whole neighborhood and the internet.  I have Comcast and that's what happens, but I understand your point.

Just a question: why no hosting(knc or local)? All these extra costs & risks.

[Cablez]

Keith from KNC says:

There has been a slight revision in our casing that we had neglected to previously explain.

The case has had an airflow improvement to ensure increased thermal efficiency.

We have ensured the hot air from the front two heatsinks is redirected, avoiding the rear chips, and is expelled from the casing by installing fins affixed to the upper casing section (despite appearing in the CAD as part of the lower section of casing). In turn this allows a sufficient amount of cool air exits to ensure a cooler operating environment for the rear heatsinks to operate comfortably.

http://forum.kncminer.com/filedata/fetch?photoid=591

What I don't understand is why they didn't make a wider case with all four modules side by side instead of trying to direct the air with baffles.

I agree with the linear idea but at least they started thinking about thermal airflow now.  I just wish they had started sooner like when I first mentioned it looking at the CAD pics.

[shmadz]

Keith from KNC says:

There has been a slight revision in our casing that we had neglected to previously explain.

The case has had an airflow improvement to ensure increased thermal efficiency.

We have ensured the hot air from the front two heatsinks is redirected, avoiding the rear chips, and is expelled from the casing by installing fins affixed to the upper casing section (despite appearing in the CAD as part of the lower section of casing). In turn this allows a sufficient amount of cool air exits to ensure a cooler operating environment for the rear heatsinks to operate comfortably.

http://forum.kncminer.com/filedata/fetch?photoid=591

What I don't understand is why they didn't make a wider case with all four modules side by side instead of trying to direct the air with baffles.

I agree with the linear idea but at least they started thinking about thermal airflow now.  I just wish they had started sooner like when I first mentioned it looking at the CAD pics.

OK, just been thinking about this problem for a bit and my best idea so far is to use a "double-decker" design. 2 hashing units, side-by-side, with the other two sitting on top. Allows for a cube type case, allows 4 intake fans (or perhaps just one big box-fan) and a very simple, straight-through airflow. Might not fit in a standard rack but it's incredibly more efficient and clean design.

[cognoscente]

Don't fix what ain't broke.

[reannypleas]

Battery backup! Christ, something else I hadn't thought of. Although, I don't remember ever having a power outage in the few years we've been here, so hopefully I won't ever need battery.

Wasting of money for a miner. You wont recognize the loss of 5 mins not hashing 

[Bitcoinorama]

I am definitely planning on either modifying the case or building a new one, I do not like what they have done with that layout, (though I do not particularly care. Please do not bother to try and fix this KNC, just worry about the chips, and ship as soon as possible)


I'm not really gonna start anything until my Jupiter arrives, but here are some initial thoughts:

 - Put an additional fan on those heatsinks for push-pull action. - In my experience with those kind of heatsinks this is usually good for 2-3 C reduction in temps.

 - Aim the fans directly towards the case exhaust. - Still can't think of an easy way to do this with the current case. Someone already mentioned turning the heatsinks 90 degrees and blowing out the sides. Maybe this would be good, but I prefer linear airflow, It's tough to know what's really going on inside the case and sometimes you will create dead zones where the heat just pools up and does not escape.

 - Keep the PSU external - This alone has dropped the temps in my avalon by 4-5 degrees, less constricted airflow is a good thing.

 - - - come to think of it, I think tolip_wen had the right idea by ordering Saturns. It's a really huge case for just 2 hashing units, but it's a much cleaner design.

Very interested to see what others will come up with for alternate case design.

(*edit- I would actually prefer if KNC would just ship me the controller board and the hashing units individually packaged. They can keep the case. Less hassle for them (no need to assemble) less shipping cost probably, and less chance of damage while shipping. Does anyone know if they would offer this as an option?

Of course not, by all means modify the case. I want to run a MAME cabinet around mine, it's a great functional and aesthetically pleasing way to disguise the units housed at home instead of an ugly pointless server cab, but KnC aren't about to perform individual requests as they scale a production line to complete all orders in two weeks, that would be crazy, and no one here would be happy with such bespoke requests. We all just want our kit sooner, rather than later, boring brown paper surrounding bubble wrap and aluminium, not individually hand packaged for the odd request with pink bows and ribbons.

Their case is basic and does what it says on the tin. It's not for winning beauty contests. I'd forgive BFL a little for their aesthetic choice had they not royally screwed everything they possibly could with respect to power and heat, because BTC hadn't blown up at their point of ASIC conception, it was still a geeks wet dream and time wasn't a monster factor. After Cyprus it has been, which is why XCrowd's fake offering was laughable.

The fact BFL still place aesthetics over function is moronic. None of the competitors have any ASIC hardware experience - as in hardware aside, and supporting the chip, i.e. supplying power and controlling heat, which is why Hashfast and Cointerra will not reach their simulated performance claims. It's also why they are dumping chips over building products, it males their life easier and puts the onus on some other poor sod.

By all means they are welcome to surprise me, but what few products they will build will likely not survive in the long term if they aim to deliver on their simulated claims, again this is why you'd want rid of warranty, because that kind of heat will significantly reduce the stability and lifetime of the chip. Bold marketing claims and performance longevity do not go hand in hand.

KnC aim to under power their design and over deliver on their claims, sure you can push it if you want, but do that gently as with any product that runs 24/7, extreme power and heat kill chips.

[shmadz]

I am definitely planning on either modifying the case or building a new one, I do not like what they have done with that layout, (though I do not particularly care. Please do not bother to try and fix this KNC, just worry about the chips, and ship as soon as possible)


I'm not really gonna start anything until my Jupiter arrives, but here are some initial thoughts:

 - Put an additional fan on those heatsinks for push-pull action. - In my experience with those kind of heatsinks this is usually good for 2-3 C reduction in temps.

 - Aim the fans directly towards the case exhaust. - Still can't think of an easy way to do this with the current case. Someone already mentioned turning the heatsinks 90 degrees and blowing out the sides. Maybe this would be good, but I prefer linear airflow, It's tough to know what's really going on inside the case and sometimes you will create dead zones where the heat just pools up and does not escape.

 - Keep the PSU external - This alone has dropped the temps in my avalon by 4-5 degrees, less constricted airflow is a good thing.

 - - - come to think of it, I think tolip_wen had the right idea by ordering Saturns. It's a really huge case for just 2 hashing units, but it's a much cleaner design.

Very interested to see what others will come up with for alternate case design.

(*edit- I would actually prefer if KNC would just ship me the controller board and the hashing units individually packaged. They can keep the case. Less hassle for them (no need to assemble) less shipping cost probably, and less chance of damage while shipping. Does anyone know if they would offer this as an option?

Of course not, by all means modify the case. I want to run a MAME cabinet around mine, it's a great functional and aesthetically pleasing way to disguise the units housed at home instead of an ugly pointless server cab, but KnC aren't about to perform individual requests as they scale a production line to complete all orders in two weeks, that would be crazy, and no one here would be happy with such bespoke requests. We all just want our kit sooner, rather than later, boring brown paper surrounding bubble wrap and aluminium, not individually hand packaged for the odd request with pink bows and ribbons.

Their case is basic and does what it says on the tin. It's not for winning beauty contests. I'd forgive BFL a little for their aesthetic choice had they not royally screwed everything they possibly could with respect to power and heat, because BTC hadn't blown up at their point of ASIC conception, it was still a geeks wet dream and time wasn't a monster factor. After Cyprus it has been, which is why XCrowd's fake offering was laughable.

The fact BFL still place aesthetics over function is moronic. None of the competitors have any ASIC hardware experience - as in hardware aside, and supporting the chip, i.e. supplying power and controlling heat, which is why Hashfast and Cointerra will not reach their simulated performance claims. It's also why they are dumping chips over building products, it males their life easier and puts the onus on some other poor sod.

By all means they are welcome to surprise me, but what few products they will build will likely not survive in the long term if they aim to deliver on their simulated claims, again this is why you'd want rid of warranty, because that kind of heat will significantly reduce the stability and lifetime of the chip. Bold marketing claims and performance longevity do not go hand in hand.

KnC aim to under power their design and over deliver on their claims, sure you can push it if you want, but do that gently as with any product that runs 24/7, extreme power and heat kill chips.

I think we have a bit of a communication disconnect going on here.

I do not want " individually hand packaged for the odd request with pink bows and ribbons."

I want them to simply ship me the boards (I can supply the pink bows and ribbons myself - thank you very much


All I'm saying is that I think their case design is substandard, and I will likely be throwing it in the trash as soon as it arrives. Why go through the bother (and I think extra chance for damage while shipping of those chips or boards attached only to the base of the case with no support from the top or sides as it seems to be.)

Just put those boards into some well cushioned boxes and ship them. no need to assemble. If anything it would speed up shipping. They can just set the chips in the boards, test them for however long, then ship them.

do you get me now?

[crumbs]

...
All I'm saying is that I think their case design is substandard, and I will likely be throwing it in the trash as soon as it arrives. Why go through the bother (and I think extra chance for damage while shipping of those chips or boards attached only to the base of the case with no support from the top or sides as it seems to be.)

Just put those boards into some well cushioned boxes and ship them. no need to assemble. If anything it would speed up shipping. They can just set the chips in the boards, test them for however long, then ship them.

do you get me now?

I've read your posts, here are a few cooling ideas:
  1. Squirrel cage fans:  These things are ideal for being ducted in tight spaces, the graphic cards folks love them.  I've also used them (as suction fans) on horizontal heatsinks -- the updraft design is not ideal, but not horrible either, and lets you route the exhaust very easily.
  2.  If you're stuck with the provided coolers, and are running the gear at home, with the cover off, consider rotating the front boards 180 degrees (actually, just swap the fans to the other side), so the fans are blowing out of the front & inhaling from the center.  You'd have to also flip the front case fans (if any), so they're blowing out.  Scrap (probably unbolt?) the new case divider baffles.
  3.  If the rates are going up as fast as they are now, it's important to have the absolute minimum of initial downtime, so simple fan-flips (and the push-pull fan arrangement you've mentioned) sounds like the way to fly

[600watt]

[Mota]

Hanau450? I don't get that

[shmadz]

I've read your posts, here are a few cooling ideas:
  1. Squirrel cage fans:  These things are ideal for being ducted in tight spaces, the graphic cards folks love them.  I've also used them (as suction fans) on horizontal heatsinks -- the updraft design is not ideal, but not horrible either, and lets you route the exhaust very easily.
  2.  If you're stuck with the provided coolers, and are running the gear at home, with the cover off, consider rotating the front boards 180 degrees (actually, just swap the fans to the other side), so the fans are blowing out of the front & inhaling from the center.  You'd have to also flip the front case fans (if any), so they're blowing out.  Scrap (probably unbolt?) the new case divider baffles.
  3.  If the rates are going up as fast as they are now, it's important to have the absolute minimum of initial downtime, so simple fan-flips (and the push-pull fan arrangement you've mentioned) sounds like the way to fly

Thanks crumbs. When you say "squirrel cage fans" I assume you mean the blower type fans like on the reference ATI GPU's?  I must agree these fans are awesome (I have some 7970's with this system and it is great)

Those would definitely work, but that seems a costly and time consuming solution, and as you mention, downtime is a big deal...

It's all pie in the sky right now until they actually deliver but thanks again for some good ideas!

(*edit*) - on second read, I would likely go with your option #2. remove the case , flip the fans on the first 2, and remove the front intake fans and position them above the gap in between the front and rear hashing units to supply fresh air.

[shmadz]

Hanau450? I don't get that

I don't either, but it looks really cool!

[Bitcoinorama]

Hanau450? I don't get that

I don't either, but it looks really cool!

If this is an entrant for their case graphic, and it's not affiliated with another brand, then it's pretty damn cool.

[Bitcoinorama]

I think we have a bit of a communication disconnect going on here.

I do not want " individually hand packaged for the odd request with pink bows and ribbons."

I want them to simply ship me the boards (I can supply the pink bows and ribbons myself - thank you very much


All I'm saying is that I think their case design is substandard, and I will likely be throwing it in the trash as soon as it arrives. Why go through the bother (and I think extra chance for damage while shipping of those chips or boards attached only to the base of the case with no support from the top or sides as it seems to be.)

Just put those boards into some well cushioned boxes and ship them. no need to assemble. If anything it would speed up shipping. They can just set the chips in the boards, test them for however long, then ship them.

do you get me now?

I get you, I think it's too late in the day to be altering anything along a production line they already have oiled and refined, anything else would make me nervous. I don't think you can have a safer 'delivery box' than a metal case, and having the odd individual order requiring different packaging and shipping would deviate from the simplicity of manufacturing the same case for three identical units, with the same packaging and the same courier offering an agreed price structure. Perhaps if you requested this a couple of months back, but 2-3 weeks prior to them going balls out on manufacture and delivery? Why risk it? Just keep it simple, and the let the only changes here on in be soft tweaks increasing hardware efficiency. Sounds like you know what you want aesthetically and functionally, and you're happy to mod this yourself, although you'll prob void warranty, which is more than likely another reason for a singles case design amongst respective models. Good luck either way and keep us posted as to what you decide, but I doubt they'll make exception to shipping modules separate until they sell upgrades. If that's more cost efficient for peeps you may see hacks of the kit from peeps buying just the modules alone, again whether that has any warranty or not is yet to be seen, but in my opinion unlikely. I know Marcus wants to push the boards through their paces after shipping, but for the sake of September it's getting the beasties set-up safe and certain and in our hands...again good luck with whatever you choose bud, but for my eventual case, I want it to be a stand up arcade cab running MAME; loads of room for cooling options, a decent enough reason for 24/7 operation, a bit of a mod will allow a one button press revealing pool info and some err kinda stealth (if you can call something 6ft in height and black stealthy, unit visibility and noise will not be an issue at least). In any case I can squeeze a few units inside, power supply dependant. Also once it becomes less profitable I either have a shell for the next gen, and/or a MAME cab regardless.

[nightengale]

...
All I'm saying is that I think their case design is substandard, and I will likely be throwing it in the trash as soon as it arrives. Why go through the bother (and I think extra chance for damage while shipping of those chips or boards attached only to the base of the case with no support from the top or sides as it seems to be.)

Just put those boards into some well cushioned boxes and ship them. no need to assemble. If anything it would speed up shipping. They can just set the chips in the boards, test them for however long, then ship them.

do you get me now?

I've read your posts, here are a few cooling ideas:
  1. Squirrel cage fans:  These things are ideal for being ducted in tight spaces, the graphic cards folks love them.  I've also used them (as suction fans) on horizontal heatsinks -- the updraft design is not ideal, but not horrible either, and lets you route the exhaust very easily.
  2.  If you're stuck with the provided coolers, and are running the gear at home, with the cover off, consider rotating the front boards 180 degrees (actually, just swap the fans to the other side), so the fans are blowing out of the front & inhaling from the center.  You'd have to also flip the front case fans (if any), so they're blowing out.  Scrap (probably unbolt?) the new case divider baffles.
  3.  If the rates are going up as fast as they are now, it's important to have the absolute minimum of initial downtime, so simple fan-flips (and the push-pull fan arrangement you've mentioned) sounds like the way to fly

Wait a minute... Was that a constructive post from... crumbs?!?

[timmmers]

Hanau450? I don't get that

I don't either, but it looks really cool!

450th post on this thread

[OmegaNemesis28]

Have they announced how the miners will connect online? Will it be Wifi or Ethernet? Because I'm screwed if its ethernet. My campus won't let anything on ethernet other than Windows, Mac, and certain Linux distros with Cisco software. I'll need to tether Wifi or hack together some ethernet sharing.

have you not been reading?! lol. its ethernet, just get an adapter.

yeah, reading a 450 page thread with over 8,900 posts for a tiny sliver of information. Good idea.
Hell I couldnt even find my post, I had to refer back through my profile to get to it.

Their website doesnt have the info either.

450th post on this thread

page, not post.

[RChevalier]

Wait a minute... Was that a constructive post from... crumbs?!?

Haha, I'm telling you, everyone has good points if you sift through all the debris.
I hope BitCoinzzz comes back soon... it's like listening to Toll Booth Willie all over again.