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1161  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling on: June 21, 2013, 09:41:08 PM

Sorry dude, at this point, you are wearing the same shirt that Garr is.


Yes i agree. way back on page 8 i was feeling sympathetic with Garr due to that apology letter. i see that 12 hours later he has yet to reimburse starsoccer or to pay the 5 btc as promised. Theymos taking up for Garr is not a wise move from a pr standpoint. That's like a jew taking up for hitler--ok so the analogy isn't perfect, but basically at this point Garr has admitted to scamming and Theymos seems to be holding him to a different standing, possibly due to his role as a trustee of the forum.

Garr255 is not a trustee of the forum:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155002.0

I only have a mild interest in Garr255's particular case. But I am very annoyed by the incredibly stupid ideas about justice and ethics that many people in this thread seem to have. Garr255's actions were definitely unethical, but it's nothing like a real scam.
1162  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling on: June 21, 2013, 09:27:14 PM
Well why isnt he getting a scammer tag or anything then?

I am still waiting for him to follow through on his deal to send me 5btc and nothing.Also i would like to get a response on how you think its okay because he simply didnt say he wouldn't. That is how a 2 year old argues not an adult. If that is how the forum is gonna work pirate deserves his scammer tag removed as he never said he wouldnt disappear. The same goes for Matt.

Pirate promised to pay back people's money plus interest. Matthew promised to pay people who bet him if he lost. Garr255 promised nothing. I do not recognize any sort of implicit contract. Something isn't a binding auction just because it's in the Auctions section. (I realize that some libertarian philosophers do recognize many types of implicit contract, but I strongly disagree with this notion.)

If you mistrust Garr255, use the trust system. I'm not going to remove anyone from the default trust network for rating Garr255 negatively. But scammer tags require a more severe crime than just going against the expectations of bidders.
1163  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling on: June 21, 2013, 09:03:49 PM
You (your forum) refused to confirm Werner is Garr's sock puppet for how long?

About 30 hours. Were you starting to go grey from waiting? The situation was successfully resolved in less than two days, partly due to my work behind the scenes. Immediately publishing the alt account info would not have been wise, though I would have published it eventually (as John alluded to earlier in the thread).

IP address logs are confidential, but I reserve the right to release alt account info when someone is abusing alt accounts as Garr255 and svbeon were doing.

To be clear: I barely know Garr255. I've sent him less than 30 PMs in total, almost all of which were related to forum administration. I chose him as a treasurer because he seemed to have more to lose than any of the other candidates if he ran away with the money.
1164  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling on: June 21, 2013, 06:41:00 PM
It's almost certainly someone pretending to be a sock-puppet of Garr's for a laugh.

Yes, it is.
1165  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling on: June 21, 2013, 10:53:33 AM
Forum policy: No matter how many times you do this, you will never get a scammer tag unless you have an explicit agreement which says otherwise. Auctions are only devices to assist in price negotiations.

Personally: I might forgive someone if they do this kind of thing once, but probably not twice.

Quote
Are you saying that you may create a sockpuppet to support your business ventures and artificially raise price in your auctions "accidentally"? Like it was an accident in the road, something you did not plan and "just happened"?

You can accidentally betray someone's trust if you misunderstand what their expectations are. If Garr255 thought that people generally had no problem with bidding via alts, the betrayal of trust would be accidental. This isn't the case here, but it's possible.
1166  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling on: June 21, 2013, 10:38:54 AM
Would you find it acceptable for yourself to bid up forum ad slots with socks?

Notice that I called it a bit shady. I wouldn't do it, and my trust in people will be reduced if I see them doing it. But it's not the end of the world.

It's not ethical to do this sort of thing because the participants in the auction expect you not to do it. By secretly acting contrary to their expectations, you're betraying their trust. But while it should happen very rarely, sometimes you get into situations like this accidentally or due to insufficient ethical consideration. It's something I can forgive fairly easily if it doesn't become a habit.

The preceding ethical analysis is irrelevant to forum administration, though. Scammer tags are given, in general, to people who break explicit agreements.
1167  Other / Meta / Re: Suggested new Moderation rule on: June 21, 2013, 09:55:10 AM
You could have raised a better point with the moderators getting paid per action:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234009.0

It's not per action.
1168  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling on: June 21, 2013, 09:51:31 AM
forcing StarSoccer to bid BTC63

Did Gar255 put a gun to his head? No one forced the bidders to do anything.

Having an alt that artificially raises the bid price is similar to a secret reserve price in an auction. There's nothing inherently wrong with it except that Garr255 should have warned bidders that he might do it. I rank his actions there as "a bit shady," though he handled the fallout badly (due to inexperience, I suppose).

In any case, alts aren't against forum rules, and scammer tags are typically only given when an explicit agreement is broken. Garr255 never promised not to bid on his own auctions. He never even promised to honor the results of the auctions. Without contracts that say otherwise, auctions are only devices to assist in price negotiations.
1169  Other / Meta / Re: Marketplace trust on: June 20, 2013, 08:37:17 PM
Quick question(s) on this (and maybe it's been answered): Anyone without a 'trusted' rating will automatically be 'yellow' from my perspective?
For example, CanaryInTheMine has numerous successful trades ..but should I see his account, it would still show 'yellow' simply because I haven't trusted the same set of users?

It'll be yellow if his trust score ("Trust: 0") is 0. This is calculated based on the number and type of trusted ratings (from your perspective) as well as time.
1170  Other / Meta / Re: Marketplace trust on: June 20, 2013, 06:54:02 PM
Why would you put everybody under general suspicion?

General suspicion the proper attitude if you don't want to get scammed.
1171  Other / Meta / Re: Marketplace trust on: June 20, 2013, 06:44:11 PM
Wait, what?  At the least, I would expect a 0 trust rating to be neutral in value, not negative.

No. People who haven't done any trades (as far as the trust system knows) are dangerous.
1172  Other / Meta / Re: Activity & new membergroup limits on: June 20, 2013, 06:22:33 PM
That seems somewhat time-consuming. Someone else could write that patch. Activity is stored in an activity column in members. Keep in mind that the forum runs SMF 1.1.18.
1173  Other / Meta / Re: Marketplace trust on: June 20, 2013, 05:52:15 PM
Now that people are starting to get green trust, in a week or two I will make it so people with 0 trust have yellow trust text instead of black.

If you don't want yellow/red trust, you need to get people to rate you positively now. It takes a month for your first positive rating to give you any trust.
1174  Other / Meta / Re: Activity & new membergroup limits on: June 20, 2013, 04:50:46 PM
In the PM system, posts have not been replaced with activity yet. Is this intended?

Fixed.
1175  Other / Meta / Re: Marketplace trust on: June 20, 2013, 04:48:53 PM
Good, thanks for checking.
1176  Other / Off-topic / Re: Fuck Summer! on: June 20, 2013, 06:23:09 AM
Come to Wisconsin. People were still ice fishing in May.
1177  Other / Off-topic / Re: Password Reset on: June 20, 2013, 06:06:02 AM
I don't understand why people attempt this.
1178  Other / Meta / Re: Activity & new membergroup limits on: June 20, 2013, 05:07:11 AM
It's over all time.
1179  Other / Meta / Re: Activity & new membergroup limits on: June 20, 2013, 04:51:10 AM
how come I got whacked from being a Hero? I've been here for 2 yrs I think (6/5/2011)
I guess I don't get this system

You must have had long stretches of inactivity.
1180  Local / Türkçe (Turkish) / Re: Turkish Forums Moderator Poll "OFFICIAL"(Türkçe Forum Moderatör Anketi "RESMİ") on: June 20, 2013, 03:46:28 AM
Bu bir anket yoluyla karar olmayacaktır. Fikrimi telafi etmek için tartışmalar okuyacağım.

Türk bölüm oluşturmak istedi o kimdi? Ben hatırlamıyorum.

This won't be decided through a poll. I'll read the discussions to make up my mind.

Who was it who asked me to create the Turkish section? I don't remember.
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