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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 895386 times)
1aguar
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September 19, 2015, 07:04:23 PM
 #2121

I wont be believe in god, the pope, or the teachings until someone can prove to me its real.  

I have a concise logical proof demonstrating that God exists based on definitions; please tell me which step of the proof you disagree with.

My proof defines God sufficiently, and yes it is based on external (observable, scientific) evidence; if my definition is missing something, you can point it out explicitly, hopefully after reading the proof carefully to understand the logic.

My definition: A supreme being who is the founder and guarantor of knowledge.
My proof: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.5300

My advice is to read ALL teachings and then you can judge in wisdom of knowledge and discern for yourself which one(s) are valid truth.
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September 19, 2015, 07:07:27 PM
 #2122

4b) If God resides within you, then how can the Pope be the representative of God?
God is dead.
BitNow is a total hypocrite; he has the honor of being the first one to make it to my ignore list.
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September 19, 2015, 07:12:34 PM
 #2123


BitNow is a total hypocrite; he has the honor of being the first one to make it to my ignore list.

"You are".


Thank You.


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1aguar
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September 19, 2015, 07:16:58 PM
 #2124

You die and you just die there's nothing after it. The vital processes that make you live just stop nothing dramatic after that

52 points of evidence suggest otherwise.
www.near-death.com/evidence.html
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September 19, 2015, 07:20:46 PM
 #2125

You die and you just die there's nothing after it. The vital processes that make you live just stop nothing dramatic after that

52 points of evidence suggest otherwise.
www.near-death.com/evidence.html

You didn't answered my question:
"God is only a Faith problem, there is no other way of proving his existence".
I disagree; you have not responded to my proof; see below.

To prove what I just said think how you will approach the definition of the word God: what's your definition of God?

My definition: A supreme being who is the founder and guarantor of knowledge.
My proof: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.5300

So: you think you have solved a problem people is trying to solve since 5700 years ago?


My question: you think you have solved a problem people is trying to solve since 5700 years ago?

What makes you so sure that you have proved God's existence?


Thank You.


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September 19, 2015, 07:30:12 PM
 #2126

Simple question.  If there is one god, one savior, one teaching or what now.

Why is Christianity not the oldest religion.  Its not the first. Hinduism dates back a few thousand years before Christians even existed.  How can this be?  There was a God before the God we all follow today?  People worshiped anther deity?

If this is true which god or Gods are the fake ones.  Made up?  I think some have to be.  If there are multiple religions why?  Dont you think there should be one?

Again. Christianity is a belief system.  But it doesn't make it true.



It's possible that there is "one god" whose properties distribute both objectively and subjectively, or impersonally and personally, to each person such that God is both one and many.  Accordingly, a person who claims Jesus is the only way may very well be correct at the same time that someone who claims Allah is the only way is also correct, and at the same time someone who claims achieving Nirvana is the only way is correct, etc.  In other words, it's possible that everyone worships the same impersonal God by worshipping their own personal gods.  This can be logically modeled so long as there is a general archetype for a relationship between impersonal God and us that allows for topological variations in the expression of that relationship.

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September 19, 2015, 07:39:35 PM
 #2127

The whole this with all this is.  Everyone believes what they wish.

I believe in something but I can not say it is god.

Science yes.  Supreme being no.  Not in the sense of Christianity anyways.

That is something else I dont really like to hear.  Have faith.  What does that really mean?  It means to believe in God.

It always amazed me how much I use to hear this in church when I was younger.  If I had faith I would tend to auto lean towards god. as by definition.  There for I can not have faith because I do not.

Now like I said I am open to all religions and other aspects of life.  

The question is.  Does a Christian?  Seems like what they are taught seems to be the only thing they see.  Many if not most of all of them will not hear there may be an alternative.  Which is possible that there may be.  Nor would they ever hear God or Jess never existed in the way that they were taught.  Exactly that.  They were never taught or were ever told that there just may be another way or another being. Or another religion.  

I am bashing on no one here.  I am simply saying that I wish people of religion would be open to the possibility or a wrong teaching or another way or being.  Or that it is possible that there may be nothing at.  Besides true physics and science.

That is really all I am saying.  Just wish people were more open to the idea.  Instead of being. This is how it is and that is that.

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September 19, 2015, 07:43:52 PM
 #2128

Simple question.  If there is one god, one savior, one teaching or what now.

Why is Christianity not the oldest religion.  Its not the first. Hinduism dates back a few thousand years before Christians even existed.  How can this be?  There was a God before the God we all follow today?  People worshiped anther deity?

If this is true which god or Gods are the fake ones.  Made up?  I think some have to be.  If there are multiple religions why?  Dont you think there should be one?

Again. Christianity is a belief system.  But it doesn't make it true.



It's possible that there is "one god" whose properties distribute both objectively and subjectively, or impersonally and personally, to each person such that God is both one and many.  Accordingly, a person who claims Jesus is the only way may very well be correct at the same time that someone who claims Allah is the only way is also correct, and at the same time someone who claims achieving Nirvana is the only way is correct, etc.  In other words, it's possible that everyone worships the same impersonal God by worshipping their own personal gods.  This can be logically modeled so long as there is a general archetype for a relationship between impersonal God and us that allows for topological variations in the expression of that relationship.

This is a good way to look at it.  I like the idea.  Just that most people wont look at it this way.  There is one and only one.
They wont even budge to look at another religion. 

Nowadays it seems that people of a different religion tend to shy away or push other religions away.  You seen religious hate all the time.  Why?  We worship one god.  Why is being a Muslin worse then being a Christian.  Some Christians see it this way and vice versa.

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September 19, 2015, 07:50:34 PM
Last edit: September 19, 2015, 08:09:30 PM by BitNow
 #2129



This is a good way to look at it.  I like the idea.  Just that most people wont look at it this way.  There is one and only one.
They wont even budge to look at another religion.  

Nowadays it seems that people of a different religion tend to shy away or push other religions away.  You seen religious hate all the time.  Why?  We worship one god.  Why is being a Muslin worse then being a Christian.  Some Christians see it this way and vice versa.

That is not true: as Christian you are teached the dogma of the Holy Trinity:
  • the Father is God
  • the Son is God
  • the Holy Spirit is God
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

This is believed to be polytheism by Jews and Muslims.

I think is were all this atheism thing was born.

Christians believe to have faith in one God while Jews and Muslims believe the Holy Trinity is polytheism.

This is already difficult for a Christian, think how much confusion that can generate to people that do not believe in God (the "so called" atheists).

The question here is: do you believe Christianity is polytheist or monotheist?

The Holy Trinity is also missing in many Christian faiths (mormons and a lot others new Christians faiths born in the USA in the last 3 centuries).

I didn't say that before cause I wanted to speak about the Faith in God not the Holy Trinity.

That's why I'm in an atheist thread: to discuss the Faith in God, not to discuss the Holy Trinity.


Thank You.


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September 19, 2015, 08:10:52 PM
 #2130

Like I said, my advice is to read ALL EVIDENCE and ALL teachings and then you can judge in wisdom of knowledge and discern for yourself which one(s) are valid truth, AFTER YOU DO SOME THINKING. God does not stop you from educating yourself or thinking for yourself; indeed, God's people die for lack of knowledge.

Quote from: BitNow
So: you think you have solved a problem people is trying to solve since 5700 years ago?
Yes; and so what?? Science is powerful, and so is logic. My proof is just an updated rendering of Plato's Allegory of the Cave (Plato was aware about life-after-death).

"What are the Laws of God and Creation?" is another ancient question, and it is sufficiently addressed in Phoenix Journal #27, which was only published near the end of the previous century. "Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find."

A reminder: To be rational means that you can intelligently evaluate new ideas when presented.
Has anyone intelligently evaluated the evidence and teachings that I have humbly presented?
Apparently, "faith" is easier and so is "doubt". These teachings are simply too much of a new paradigm that otherwise intelligent people will dismiss them offhand; same with the scientific evidence for rebirth.

Hard facts of reality:
YOU are your Savior. And the good news is YOU will EARN your way into God's Grace by standing responsible for self and obeying THE LAWS OF GOD/CREATION. It is really so simple.

EACH and every one of you Human Beings carries with you the TEMPLE OF GOD WITHIN YOU! You are the temple. And so with this truth in mind you might ask yourselves, WHERE do YOU take God in your life journey? So you must not place the attainment and hoarding of "worldly" treasures above the attainment of your spiritual wisdom and perfection lest ye "die" in the darkness of spiritual poverty.


I am not going to bother with this thread anymore since anyone can proclaim that "God is dead" or "Jesus is your savior" or "nothing comes after death" and think that they don't have to explain themselves; others will ask questions but will not follow-up on the answers that I provide. I appreciate the efforts of thefaucetrunner and anyone who tries to use reason. I will not repeat myself and I wait for intelligent replies ONLY. Thank YOU.

Search the contents of Phoenix Journals here:
http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/site_search.html
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September 19, 2015, 08:23:17 PM
 #2131

Like I said, my advice is to read ALL EVIDENCE and ALL teachings and then you can judge in wisdom of knowledge and discern for yourself which one(s) are valid truth, AFTER YOU DO SOME THINKING. God does not stop you from educating yourself or thinking for yourself; indeed, God's people die for lack of knowledge.

Quote from: BitNow
So: you think you have solved a problem people is trying to solve since 5700 years ago?
Yes; and so what?? Science is powerful, and so is logic. My proof is just an updated rendering of Plato's Allegory of the Cave (Plato was aware about life-after-death).

"What are the Laws of God and Creation?" is another ancient question, and it is sufficiently addressed in Phoenix Journal #27, which was only published near the end of the previous century. "Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find."

A reminder: To be rational means that you can intelligently evaluate new ideas when presented.
Has anyone intelligently evaluated the evidence and teachings that I have humbly presented?
Apparently, "faith" is easier and so is "doubt". These teachings are simply too much of a new paradigm that otherwise intelligent people will dismiss them offhand; same with the scientific evidence for rebirth.

Hard facts of reality:
YOU are your Savior. And the good news is YOU will EARN your way into God's Grace by standing responsible for self and obeying THE LAWS OF GOD/CREATION. It is really so simple.

EACH and every one of you Human Beings carries with you the TEMPLE OF GOD WITHIN YOU! You are the temple. And so with this truth in mind you might ask yourselves, WHERE do YOU take God in your life journey? So you must not place the attainment and hoarding of "worldly" treasures above the attainment of your spiritual wisdom and perfection lest ye "die" in the darkness of spiritual poverty.


I am not going to bother with this thread anymore since anyone can proclaim that "God is dead" or "Jesus is your savior" or "nothing comes after death" and think that they don't have to explain themselves; others will ask questions but will not follow-up on the answers that I provide. I appreciate the efforts of thefaucetrunner and anyone who tries to use reason. I will not repeat myself and I wait for intelligent replies ONLY. Thank YOU.

Search the contents of Phoenix Journals here:
http://www.phoenixsourcedistributors.com/html/site_search.html

It is not a theological answer to explain WHY.

Science told you WHY.

That is why we got discussing WHY God exist.

You either believe or you don't believe in God.

"Those who don't believe in God are called atheists".

Question: what's the source of the Phoenix Journal? Is some Christian's church?


Thank You.


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September 19, 2015, 11:11:01 PM
 #2132

Simple question.  If there is one god, one savior, one teaching or what now.

Why is Christianity not the oldest religion.  Its not the first. Hinduism dates back a few thousand years before Christians even existed.  How can this be?  There was a God before the God we all follow today?  People worshiped anther deity?

If this is true which god or Gods are the fake ones.  Made up?  I think some have to be.  If there are multiple religions why?  Dont you think there should be one?

Again. Christianity is a belief system.  But it doesn't make it true.



Start to believe that there is one God.

Start to respect the Pope.

Start to respect others.

Then, maybe, you can start to respect yourself.


Thank You.

I believe in God. I respect the Abrahamic faiths but do not adhere to them (as God knows.)

But I do not necessarily feel the need to believe in the Pope because I have an understanding of the history of the formation of the Catholic Church - i.e. the political context at the time, the Council of Niacea and the fact that Christians were becoming a political thorn in the side of the occupying force, after 300+ years of persecution.

I believe Jesus was a prophet. His divinity is up for debate, but that is certainly not helped by Atheist positions (some even choosing to ignore the obvious fact that a man called Jesus existed, as the historical record appears to show.)

The transition of the Roman Imperial Cult into the Roman Catholic Church was an interesting political U-Turn to say the least. But not at odds with the Roman Empire's history of bringing foreign religions 'into the fold' in some way, be it through the creation of sub-governance as was the case in Jesus' time or though other means.

Wasn't easier to say "I'm not Christian"?

Why all the talking?

I'm loosing my Faith in this conversation...

Thank You.

You don't need to have any.

I explained precisely why, would you not have wanted at least a reasoned explanation?



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BitNow
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September 19, 2015, 11:17:54 PM
Last edit: September 20, 2015, 12:13:54 AM by BitNow
 #2133


You don't need to have any.

I explained precisely why, would you not have wanted at least a reasoned explanation?



You need faith in Life.

If not, we are not talking the same language.


Thank You.


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MakingMoneyHoney
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September 20, 2015, 12:00:03 AM
 #2134

Your proof of life after death means nothing if we're all in a matrix style machine or simulation.
Then what would that say about God? That God is a deceiver? I am not buying it!

I know we're not, I believe in God. But I was pointing out your proof was not proof to atheists.

I wasn't trying to prove anything to you.
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September 20, 2015, 12:54:34 AM
 #2135

Start to believe that there is one God.

Start to respect the Pope.

Start to respect others.

Then, maybe, you can start to respect yourself.

How could I respect myself if I can never outgrow childish fairy tales?

Only once you learn science and understand why the world works can one truly respect themselves.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports
"Masturbation makes you feel good but doesn't do anything for the person you're thinking of.  Just like prayer."
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September 20, 2015, 03:08:52 AM
 #2136


How could I respect myself if I can never outgrow childish fairy tales?

Only once you learn science and understand why the world works can one truly respect themselves.

You cannot learn science, you can know science and the science you are implying here is not very specific.

What do you want to know?


Thank You.


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September 20, 2015, 03:36:36 AM
 #2137

Remember Your Creator
by Witness Lee

To remember your Creator
means to love the Lord
in the days of your youth,
while your eyes still have their
keen sight,while your teeth are
still complete and perfect,
while your are still so strong,
and while your hair is not gray.
Don't wait until it is too late
to love the Lord,
but love Him now,
in the days of your youth.
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September 20, 2015, 06:29:33 AM
 #2138

i don't hate religion , i tolerate a whole lot of it actually. ( Maybe a bit too much )
I just don't believe in it or practice it , and as a member of secular society i have the right to do so.

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September 20, 2015, 12:53:55 PM
 #2139

Question: what's the source of the Phoenix Journal? Is some Christian's church?

He doesn't believe that Jesus Christ saves us, so no it's not Christian.

From their website "Phoenix Journals as scribed by 'dharma' for Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn."

Who is Commander Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn?

His answer: "I serve aboard the Command Ship, and I head the Fleet Command.  I am Commander of the United Federation Fleet, Intergalactic Federation Command. " (link)

He's an alien.
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September 20, 2015, 12:59:10 PM
 #2140


He doesn't believe that Jesus Christ saves us, so no it's not Christian.

From their website "Phoenix Journals as scribed by 'dharma' for Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn."

Who is Commander Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn?

His answer: "I serve aboard the Command Ship, and I head the Fleet Command.  I am Commander of the United Federation Fleet, Intergalactic Federation Command. " (link)

He's an alien.

So why then the use 1aguar speaks so much about Jesus Christ?


Thank You.


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