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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 895796 times)
Vod
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September 23, 2015, 02:33:11 AM
 #2361

Also, The burden of proof has shifted to skeptics of an afterlife.

No it hasn't.

It's up to you to prove there is an afterlife, not for us to prove there isn't one.

That's like trying to prove there isn't a tooth fairy.  Or an easter bunny.  Can you prove those things don't exist? 

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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September 23, 2015, 03:00:50 AM
 #2362

Also, The burden of proof has shifted to skeptics of an afterlife.

No it hasn't.

It's up to you to prove there is an afterlife, not for us to prove there isn't one.

That's like trying to prove there isn't a tooth fairy.  Or an easter bunny.  Can you prove those things don't exist? 

Oh, the one question that all physicist hate. Can you prove it doesnt exist?

This is really what it all boils down to. Although they are skeptical, there is no verifiable proof that none of this exists. Sad but true.

Aristotle alone added the three miracles of cosmogony, where he explains cause sui or "cause unto itself." It explains that the cosmos was set into motion by an unmoved mover. He explains that since motion must be eternal and must never fail, there must be some eternal first mover. This unmoved mover has no potential to change, only to change other things and thus must be a being of pure thought unchanged by the rest of the world.

Not that he himself believed in this miracle, but it was necessary for the list to be complete.
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September 23, 2015, 03:03:39 AM
 #2363

MMH,
It's too bad we can't agree completely, because we did agree on a lot...
Quote from: 1aguar
even if you suspect my teachings come from demons, you cannot deny that they are identical in this respect and therefore sufficient to bring me life, as Jesus said.

You say you disagree, but you are only speaking from your interpretation of the Bible,
Let's use reason instead of trusting an ancient book with our souls.

I think we should use the question format again:
1) Is there any point at which Jesus suggests that he is anyone's "SAVIOR"?
2) If that teaching was so important, why was it not repeated explicitly, again and again?
3) If it is only repeated by Man, and it was never stated by Jesus; why should we accept it?
4) Jesus taught the New Commandment (his ONE COMMAND), and he never once suggested he was your "savior", so why this false, projected Commandment to "believe in the 'savior'"?


John 14 is pretty much about the Holy Spirit being with us.  23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

This shows we have the Holy Spirit with us. Jesus is making a place for us in Heaven.

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1) John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

The ONLY way to the Father is through Jesus. There are plenty of other religions that teach to be moral, a good person, and to not harm others. They will not get to the Father but through Jesus.

2) Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

(I Speak in Parables So They WON’T Understand.)

3) Jesus told us.

4) Jesus told us, loving our Lord with all our hearts, mind and souls, is giving Him the Glory He deserves for Jesus dying for us. That is included in the 2 commandments, and you are breaking them if you don't believe Jesus died for our sins.
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September 23, 2015, 03:07:32 AM
 #2364

Sorry MMH, but Jesus never ONCE suggested he was your "SAVIOR".
All you have is one passage that you want to interpret your way.
Why did he not repeatedly say he was your "SAVIOR"? God has no mysticism nor hidden agenda—God is open.
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September 23, 2015, 03:09:49 AM
 #2365

Also, The burden of proof has shifted to skeptics of an afterlife.

No it hasn't.

It's up to you to prove there is an afterlife, not for us to prove there isn't one.
Yes, the burden of proof HAS shifted;
you chose to ignore the evidence when I linked you to it,
so you would not know what the evidence proves or does not prove.

I will link it again; perhaps you will read it this time?
http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html
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September 23, 2015, 03:12:14 AM
 #2366

Sorry MMH, but Jesus never ONCE suggested he was your "SAVIOR".
All you have is one passage that you want to interpret your way.
Why did he not repeatedly say he was your "SAVIOR"? God has no mysticism nor hidden agenda—God is open.

The bible says it, quite clear. The people who miss it, have hardened hearts and don't have the Holy Spirit guiding them.

Ephesians 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
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September 23, 2015, 03:13:12 AM
 #2367

Yes, the burden of proof HAS shifted;

So now you want people to prove that your personal afterlife doesn't exist?

Why would they?  They have their own personal afterlife that they believe in - and you haven't proven it doesn't exist.

Until you prove my afterlife doesn't exist, yours cannot exist.   Undecided

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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September 23, 2015, 03:18:14 AM
 #2368

Also, The burden of proof has shifted to skeptics of an afterlife.

No it hasn't.

It's up to you to prove there is an afterlife, not for us to prove there isn't one.
Yes, the burden of proof HAS shifted;
you chose to ignore the evidence when I linked you to it,
so you would not know what the evidence proves or does not prove.

I will link it again; perhaps you will read it this time?
http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html

This is what they call evidence? Its very skeptical.

This study titled "NDEs can be replicated using drugs satisfying the scientific method." explains its replication with the use of ketamine. Ketamine produces very heavy hallucinations for the user.

The results of this study?
a.   NDEs and ketamine produce identical visions. - www.maps.org/kdreams/
b.   NDEs and ketamine both induce real visions of a real god.--www.lycaeum.org
c.   Ketamine affects the right temporal lobe, the hippocampus and associated structures in the brain (the "God" spot).
d.   NDEs are an important phenomenon that can safely be reproduced by ketamine. - www.near-death.com

Now.....

The one just under that one titled "NDEs are different from hallucinations." It mentions the following, "There are not the distortions of time, place, body image and disorientations seen in drug induced experiences"
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September 23, 2015, 03:23:28 AM
 #2369

Hi Sorryforthat,
You have pointed out Two points that need to be explained further, especially with regards to our definition of NDE; it is to be expected that you will find apparent contradictions when encountering a new theory; perhaps one point of those two is wrong, or perhaps there is no real contradiction after all (only apparent contradictions). In any case, there are 50 other points for you to examine, and then plenty of evidence on top of that, like the AWARE study referenced in the introduction.

I found that point 52 was particularly helpful in helping me to understand the nature of hallucinations and NDE; take a look.
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September 23, 2015, 03:28:19 AM
 #2370

Yes, the burden of proof HAS shifted;

So now you want people to prove that your personal afterlife doesn't exist?
No, I want you to behave rationally and evaluate evidence like a scientist.
I want you to evaluate the evidence, and then propose an explanation for it.
The evidence is generally thought to be so overwhelming
that an explanation not involving the survival hypothesis
(the idea that some personalities survive death, some of the time)
is not plausible in the least.
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September 23, 2015, 03:38:24 AM
 #2371

I believe I am the true Virtual God, and I have been for the last three years here on this forum.  My afterlife is exclusive - no other afterlife exists.

Like you posted, you need to prove that my afterlife does not exist.

Until you can prove that, your afterlife cannot exist.   Undecided

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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September 23, 2015, 03:39:17 AM
 #2372

Yes, the burden of proof HAS shifted;

So now you want people to prove that your personal afterlife doesn't exist?
No, I want you to behave rationally and evaluate evidence like a scientist.
I want you to evaluate the evidence, and then propose an explanation for it.
The evidence is generally thought to be so overwhelming
that an explanation not involving the survival hypothesis
(the idea that some personalities survive death, some of the time)
is not plausible in the least.

Then this ideal would have to focus on all religions and not just the more common western world religions.

The page you posted shows that there are numerous similarities and 90 percent of those on your list explain the same visions and can thus be concluded as a near death experience based on past events or studies.

Now the tricky part is knowing what to experience, which is dictated heavily by your culture and background. Christians, Hindu, Buddhist, Islamic, and Vedic near death experiences are going to be different as they each have their own pre-defined belief system.

So you cannot prove near death experience to be true unless you can control a study that produces equal results among people who fall within the same religion or pre-defined belief system. This goes deeper than the most modern religions.
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September 23, 2015, 03:40:14 AM
 #2373

I believe I am the true Virtual God, and I have been for the last three years here on this forum.  My afterlife is exclusive - no other afterlife exists.

Like you posted, you need to prove that my afterlife does not exist.

Until you can prove that, your afterlife cannot exist.   Undecided

I completely agree with you but now your just antagonizing.
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September 23, 2015, 03:43:15 AM
 #2374

I believe I am the true Virtual God, and I have been for the last three years here on this forum.  My afterlife is exclusive - no other afterlife exists.

Like you posted, you need to prove that my afterlife does not exist.

Until you can prove that, your afterlife cannot exist.   Undecided

I completely agree with you but now your just antagonizing.

Well what good is a god if he can't antagonize his followers every now and then?

I don't mind jaguar praying to a different god, as long as he knows he'll spend eternity in my reality.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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September 23, 2015, 03:49:49 AM
 #2375

Then this ideal would have to focus on all religions and not just the more common western world religions.
I don't believe that the survival hypothesis has anything to do with religion.

The page you posted shows that there are numerous similarities and 90 percent of those on your list explain the same visions and can thus be concluded as a near death experience based on past events or studies.
You could conclude that, but you would have no evidence to support that hypothesis and link it to what was actually observed; especially when you consider the facts of veridical perception, scientific discoveries resulting from NDE, etc.

Now the tricky part is knowing what to experience, which is dictated heavily by your culture and background. Christians, Hindu, Buddhist, Islamic, and Vedic near death experiences are going to be different as they each have their own pre-defined belief system.
Everyone's experience is different. Again, religion has nothing to do with this, even atheists have these experiences and are changed.

So you cannot prove near death experience to be true unless you can control a study that produces equal results among people who fall within the same religion or pre-defined belief system. This goes deeper than the most modern religions.
The experience stands on its own because it includes veridical perception when the brain was non-functional, so it shows that some of the personality survives death some of the time; religion has nothing to do with it.
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September 23, 2015, 03:52:25 AM
 #2376

Then this ideal would have to focus on all religions and not just the more common western world religions.
I don't believe that the survival hypothesis has anything to do with religion.

The page you posted shows that there are numerous similarities and 90 percent of those on your list explain the same visions and can thus be concluded as a near death experience based on past events or studies.
You could conclude that, but you would have no evidence to support that hypothesis and link it to what was actually observed; especially when you consider the facts of veridical perception, scientific discoveries resulting from NDE, etc.

Now the tricky part is knowing what to experience, which is dictated heavily by your culture and background. Christians, Hindu, Buddhist, Islamic, and Vedic near death experiences are going to be different as they each have their own pre-defined belief system.
Everyone's experience is different. Again, religion has nothing to do with this, even atheists have these experiences and are changed.

So you cannot prove near death experience to be true unless you can control a study that produces equal results among people who fall within the same religion or pre-defined belief system. This goes deeper than the most modern religions.
The experience stands on its own because it includes veridical perception when the brain was non-functional, so it shows that some of the personality survives death some of the time; religion has nothing to do with it.

Nothing to do with it.... Bro, the site you have pushed so heavily has separate pages that pretty much say the same thing.

http://www.near-death.com/religion/hinduism.html
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September 23, 2015, 04:18:28 AM
Last edit: September 23, 2015, 04:41:23 AM by 1aguar
 #2377

The assertion that "each person integrates their near-death experience into their own pre-existing belief system" is not a flaw which is fatal to the survival hypothesis.
Indeed, "You Cannot Deny the Experiences of Others", so this is not even a flaw of the hypothesis; it is a feature of human experience that experiences are different (and yet remarkably similar), and why should it not be moreso in the etheric realm? On that page you will find Chopra's book; his urgent message should be pondered: "Who you meet in the afterlife and what you experience there reflect your present beliefs, expectations, and level of awareness. In the here and now, you can shape what happens after you die."

The most common "skeptical" fallacy is to equate an untested and hypothetical explanation with a theory based on empirical data.
People who believe in Materialism often try to discredit the empirical evidence for the afterlife by making up stories about why that evidence might be wrong without really investigating the evidence or by backing up their stories with facts. They don't even realize their stories are contradicted by facts because they never investigated the evidence in the first place.

The AWARE study is a successful experiment that validates the survival hypothesis by evidencing the fact of veridical perception during NDE when the brain was non-functional.
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September 23, 2015, 04:43:10 AM
 #2378

I want you to behave rationally and evaluate evidence like a scientist.
I want you to evaluate the evidence, and then propose an explanation for it.

So, I ask you to be rational, to take a look at the evidence, and this is how you respond?

I believe I am the true Virtual God

In common parlance, to be rational means that one can think clearly and is capable of intelligently assessing new ideas when presented.

I don't think you have done any of that; I suspect that you don't even know what the survival hypothesis entails.
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September 23, 2015, 04:49:08 AM
 #2379

Sorry MMH, but Jesus never ONCE suggested he was your "SAVIOR".
All you have is one passage that you want to interpret your way.
Why did he not repeatedly say he was your "SAVIOR"? God has no mysticism nor hidden agenda—God is open.

The bible says it, quite clear.

Brother, the Bible has been tampered with; the book of Isaiah was modified; you have to sort the truth from the lie and be aware that the Messenger who you follow gave you only ONE Commandment. No need to deify the messenger when his commandment was as simple as it IS!

Also, thanks to "sorryforthat", I found more evidence that the Bible is highly modified:

"With impetus provided by the accumulated historical and textual evidence supporting reincarnation, this book first examines Gospel evidence that Jesus actually taught reincarnation and karma rather than resurrection. Deardorff's compelling analysis bolsters other studies indicating that the concept of resurrection displaced reincarnation in earliest Christianity due to its pre-belief by certain Pharisee converts, and specifies how the Gospels came to reflect this belief."
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September 23, 2015, 08:01:33 AM
 #2380

1aguar, watch how you post to your god, unless you can prove I'm not one...

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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"Masturbation makes you feel good but doesn't do anything for the person you're thinking of.  Just like prayer."
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