Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[BADecker]

As you say, your perception is failing you.

Even in the silliness that is Big Bang, Hawking said that there is something outside of the universe to have caused the BB.

True criticism has to exist with true examination. Otherwise the criticism is simply religious-like belief. Your examination of the Bible was too superficial for you to correctly comment on it.

Consider many other place in the Bible like the first line in Galations 5: "It is for freedom that Christ has set you free." You are misunderstanding the whole operation of God regarding the slavery that mankind (not God) does.

Time for you to remove the beam out of your own eye, before you try to remove the splinter out of the eye of someone else.

You talk about the delusion of others, but fail to see that your delusion is causing you to go in the exact opposite direction of factual life.

[CoinCube]

Yes, I fail to perceive your delusional reality.

My senses are failing me in detecting your "unknown and undefined agent who is outside of this universe and influences everything in this universe, an agent who decided to inspire people to write some books but not others, etc."  I am paraphrasing as I don't remember all the details of your delusion.

I suspect you are not only delusional but also paranoid.  You see evil in any progressive thought, people who criticize the Bible, or people who believe in some other religions.  I suspect you view Atheists are the evilest of all people.  I think you have more in common with Islamists than you are willing to admit.

Yet, you admit that you are against slavery.  At least you are better than your God on that point, LOL.

You are an enigma, but I am not an expert in Psychiatry so I cannot help you further.

I suspect your delusion is not as severe as BADecker's or notbatman's, but I cannot be sure.  You could be masking it well because you are brighter than most people who suffer from these religious delusions.

Perhaps that is because you are looking in the wrong way. It is very difficult to touch a cloud or hear the light from the stars. Abstract truths are likewise challenging to perceive when the mind is focused on the senses.

The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D3MWVMKKY3A&

I don’t see evil in all thought labeled today as progressive I simply challenge the claim that most of the ideas so labeled are what they claim to be. I think many of them are regressive.

I also do not view Atheists as the “evilest of all people”. Religions do not suddenly make people evil or good. They provide a forward looking framework for thought and action. They are like blueprints. Starting with an empty field not much has immediately changed if you grab the blueprint for a prison or a cathedral.

With time effort and will, however, that blueprint will eventually manifest itself into reality.  Sooner or later the empty field will be gone transformed into the prison or the cathedral.

The good or evil of humans today are like variations in the quality of the field. Some fields are solid and reliable foundations others are swamps that make construction very difficult.

It is the blueprints, however, that define what will be. I do not think you are evil. I do, however, think your blueprints will create evil. Most bad ideas do.

Your error here is assuming technological advancement built on a foundation of moral subjectivism is progress. Such advancement taken to its logical conclusion and stripped of objective morality will ultimately make us all the slaves of nature not its master.
...

The Abolition of Man
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=idgYLTnSzxI

[Cryptotina]

Should we say they hate. More like, they do not believe in it. But do americans like atheists more than they like members of most religious groups? Should we pick one for a president? The topic is just too complicated.. Having to do with faith and believes is always a thrilling topic to discuss about 😅

[Astargath]

Yes, I fail to perceive your delusional reality.

My senses are failing me in detecting your "unknown and undefined agent who is outside of this universe and influences everything in this universe, an agent who decided to inspire people to write some books but not others, etc."  I am paraphrasing as I don't remember all the details of your delusion.

I suspect you are not only delusional but also paranoid.  You see evil in any progressive thought, people who criticize the Bible, or people who believe in some other religions.  I suspect you view Atheists are the evilest of all people.  I think you have more in common with Islamists than you are willing to admit.

Yet, you admit that you are against slavery.  At least you are better than your God on that point, LOL.

You are an enigma, but I am not an expert in Psychiatry so I cannot help you further.

I suspect your delusion is not as severe as BADecker's or notbatman's, but I cannot be sure.  You could be masking it well because you are brighter than most people who suffer from these religious delusions.

Perhaps that is because you are looking in the wrong way. It is very difficult to touch a cloud or hear the light from the stars. Abstract truths are likewise challenging to perceive when the mind is focused on the senses.

The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D3MWVMKKY3A&

I don’t see evil in all thought labeled today as progressive I simply challenge the claim that most of the ideas so labeled are what they claim to be. I think many of them are regressive.

I also do not view Atheists as the “evilest of all people”. Religions do not suddenly make people evil or good. They provide a forward looking framework for thought and action. They are like blueprints. Starting with an empty field not much has immediately changed if you grab the blueprint for a prison or a cathedral.

With time effort and will, however, that blueprint will eventually manifest itself into reality.  Sooner or later the empty field will be gone transformed into the prison or the cathedral.

The good or evil of humans today are like variations in the quality of the field. Some fields are solid and reliable foundations others are swamps that make construction very difficult.

It is the blueprints, however, that define what will be. I do not think you are evil. I do, however, think your blueprints will create evil. Most bad ideas do.

Your error here is assuming technological advancement built on a foundation of moral subjectivism is progress. Such advancement taken to its logical conclusion and stripped of objective morality will ultimately make us all the slaves of nature not its master.
...

The Abolition of Man
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=idgYLTnSzxI

To me it seems that if you are only doing good deeds because you are afraid of god or because you want to look good for god then you are not a good person. However if you are doing good things just because you want to or you like to make people happy, then yes, you should be considered a good person.

[af_newbie]

Yes, I fail to perceive your delusional reality.

My senses are failing me in detecting your "unknown and undefined agent who is outside of this universe and influences everything in this universe, an agent who decided to inspire people to write some books but not others, etc."  I am paraphrasing as I don't remember all the details of your delusion.

I suspect you are not only delusional but also paranoid.  You see evil in any progressive thought, people who criticize the Bible, or people who believe in some other religions.  I suspect you view Atheists are the evilest of all people.  I think you have more in common with Islamists than you are willing to admit.

Yet, you admit that you are against slavery.  At least you are better than your God on that point, LOL.

You are an enigma, but I am not an expert in Psychiatry so I cannot help you further.

I suspect your delusion is not as severe as BADecker's or notbatman's, but I cannot be sure.  You could be masking it well because you are brighter than most people who suffer from these religious delusions.

Perhaps that is because you are looking in the wrong way. It is very difficult to touch a cloud or hear the light from the stars. Abstract truths are likewise challenging to perceive when the mind is focused on the senses.
...

You are imagining things that are not there. Not just human senses but all other hi-tech equipment we have developed over the years has failed to detect any God(s).  Abstract truths are just abstract truths.

That is the point.  

It is not reasonable to have faith.  Where faith begins, reason ends.

[CoinCube]

You are imagining things that are not there. Not just human senses but all other hi-tech equipment we have developed over the years has failed to detect any God(s).  Abstract truths are just abstract truths.

That is the point.  

It is not reasonable to have faith.  Where faith begins, reason ends.

You would not expect to find God with any of that hi-tech equipment any more then you would expect to find William Shakespeare in one of his plays. That does not mean he is not there.

Finding God (Finding Shakespeare)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXlBCZ_5OYw

I agree that faith begins where reason ends. All reason can do is clear away the false objections to faith. It does not compel faith. Why do you want to be compelled? It is better to be free to choose what we are.

You are exercising that freedom to choose now whether you acknowledge it or not. You are living your life under the assumption that God does not exist because you have not been able to prove his existence as a discrete entity inside of creation. God is beyond creation. You are looking in the wrong place and with incorrect instruments. The proper direction of inquiry is not external at all but internal.  

To me it seems that if you are only doing good deeds because you are afraid of god or because you want to look good for god then you are not a good person. However if you are doing good things just because you want to or you like to make people happy, then yes, you should be considered a good person.

Both situations are potentially problematic. It is best to be doing good deeds because you are in fact good.

One advantage of your first scenario is that it can over time and with increased wisdom gradually change people from worse to better.

One disadvantage of your second scenario is that without God it becomes difficult to even define good as anything other then hedonistic pleasure. Misdirected good will towards an end that is not in fact actually good can cause harm.

Proverbs 9:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom"

[af_newbie]

You are imagining things that are not there. Not just human senses but all other hi-tech equipment we have developed over the years has failed to detect any God(s).  Abstract truths are just abstract truths.

That is the point.  

It is not reasonable to have faith.  Where faith begins, reason ends.

You would not expect to find God with any of that hi-tech equipment any more then you would expect to find William Shakespeare in one of his plays. That does not mean he is not there.

Finding God (Finding Shakespeare)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXlBCZ_5OYw

I agree that faith begins where reason ends. All reason can do is clear away the false objections to faith. It does not compel faith. Why do you want to be compelled? It is better to be free to choose what we are.

You are exercising that freedom to choose now whether you acknowledge it or not. You are living your life under the assumption that God does not exist because you have not been able to prove his existence as a discrete entity inside of creation. God is beyond creation. You are looking in the wrong place and with incorrect instruments. The proper direction of inquiry is not external at all but internal.  

To me it seems that if you are only doing good deeds because you are afraid of god or because you want to look good for god then you are not a good person. However if you are doing good things just because you want to or you like to make people happy, then yes, you should be considered a good person.

Both situations are potentially problematic. It is best to be doing good deeds because you are in fact good.

One advantage of your first scenario is that it can over time and with increased wisdom gradually change people from worse to better.

One disadvantage of your second scenario is that is that without God it becomes difficult to even define good as anything other then hedonistic pleasure. Misdirected good will towards an end that is not in fact actually good can cause harm.

Proverbs 9:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom"

Keep your scarecrow in your closet.

[CoinCube]

Keep your scarecrow in your closet.

"Who is more foolish, the child afraid of the dark or the man afraid of the light?" - Maurice Freehill

[af_newbie]

Keep your scarecrow in your closet.

"Who is more foolish, the child afraid of the dark or the man afraid of the light?" - Maurice Freehill

A man who is afraid of the imaginary hell.

[BADecker]

Religious people prefer to believe in a miracle instead of finding a reasonable explanation for something thats why I'm personally hate religion

So you believe in the fantasy that you can find out the answers to the deep meanings of life without religion? That's a hard-to-believe religion you have there.

[Astargath]

Religious people prefer to believe in a miracle instead of finding a reasonable explanation for something thats why I'm personally hate religion

So you believe in the fantasy that you can find out the answers to the deep meanings of life without religion? That's a hard-to-believe religion you have there.

Have you found the answers of life though? How do you know you will if you haven't?

[BADecker]

^^^ All you are saying is that you found some answers to life, but you don't like them, mostly because you are unwilling to understand them.

[Astargath]

^^^ All you are saying is that you found some answers to life, but you don't like them, mostly because you are unwilling to understand them.

No all I said is this: ''Have you found the answers of life though? How do you know you will if you haven't?''


Which was a question since you claimed you can only find it through religion so I asked you if you did, clearly you didn't. Heaven is not a purpose or meaning, going to heaven to do what, what purpose, what meaning, doing the same shit that you do here but forever? Worshiping god forever? That's the purpose?

[BADecker]

^^^ The term or idea of "the answers of life" is a very general thing. You have found some of them, haven't you? You do breathe, don't you? You drink water and eat food don't you?

Do you do these things habitually, or habitually un-habitually... where you change your routine of breathing and eating on a regular basis?

Since you are unwilling to even recognize the existence of God, how in the world can you begin to understand the fantastically wonderful Greatness He is? His moving of His people from this universe to Heaven, is removing them from the troubles and boredoms of this life, to a life of glory and joy. How does it work? Nobody knows, except that it is being done through the wonderful greatness that God is and does.

Have you so forgotten the feelings of getting things new and fresh - like a new car, or a wonderful birthday present, or winning the lottery, or making a fortune in Bitcoin, or whatever good things that have happened to you in life - that you can't imagine what it would be like to be getting new and greater things forever, without the boredom?

Worshiping God is what He made us for. And He is willing to reward us when we simply do what we were made for. GOD IS SO GREAT that worshiping Him advances us into the glory and greatness of what He is, even though it seems to take a long time for us to get there. But the advancement is in joy, so it is not only worth it, but it is desired.

Wake up! You are placing yourself into a position where you are going to entirely miss the greatness, and the joy of becoming great.

[Astargath]

^^^ The term or idea of "the answers of life" is a very general thing. You have found some of them, haven't you? You do breathe, don't you? You drink water and eat food don't you?

Do you do these things habitually, or habitually un-habitually... where you change your routine of breathing and eating on a regular basis?

Since you are unwilling to even recognize the existence of God, how in the world can you begin to understand the fantastically wonderful Greatness He is? His moving of His people from this universe to Heaven, is removing them from the troubles and boredoms of this life, to a life of glory and joy. How does it work? Nobody knows, except that it is being done through the wonderful greatness that God is and does.

Have you so forgotten the feelings of getting things new and fresh - like a new car, or a wonderful birthday present, or winning the lottery, or making a fortune in Bitcoin, or whatever good things that have happened to you in life - that you can't imagine what it would be like to be getting new and greater things forever, without the boredom?

Worshiping God is what He made us for. And He is willing to reward us when we simply do what we were made for. GOD IS SO GREAT that worshiping Him advances us into the glory and greatness of what He is, even though it seems to take a long time for us to get there. But the advancement is in joy, so it is not only worth it, but it is desired.

Wake up! You are placing yourself into a position where you are going to entirely miss the greatness, and the joy of becoming great.

''Since you are unwilling to even recognize the existence of God, how in the world can you begin to understand the fantastically wonderful Greatness He is? His moving of His people from this universe to Heaven, is removing them from the troubles and boredoms of this life, to a life of glory and joy. How does it work? Nobody knows, except that it is being done through the wonderful greatness that God is and does.''

Seems to be a rhetoric that repeats many times in the bible, how did god do this, nobody knows, how did god create the universe? Nobody knows. How will god prevent evil from happening in heaven? Nobody knows. Why do some children die earlier than others? Nobody knows.

Do we know anything or are we just supposed to trust the book?

[BADecker]

^^^ We talked about this in the God proof thread in the Off-Topic section. The simple answer that is obvious to everyone is the machine quality of the universe. Machines have makers. But if this weren't enough, there is more over in that thread.

Your desire to remain ignorant of machines and machine-makers is astounding. It doesn't do you any good. And it only serves to uphold what is written in the Bible about your kind. So, thanks for helping to prove God and the Bible.

It's easy for anyone to see why atheists hate religion. Right religion is organized looking for the truth. Atheism tends towards organized destruction... which actually makes it a wrong religion. Right religion will win, just as the appearance of the orderly universe is a fact. Such will be your ultimate destruction, rather than the destruction of the universe.

But, you have a chance to turn to right religion. Do it now, while you still have time.

[CoinCube]

Do we know anything or are we just supposed to trust the book?

Empiric knowledge can take us pretty far.

We can use such knowledge to strip away and examine the various layers of our beliefs like so many layers of an onion. Eventually, however, we reach a point were that type of reduction can go no further.

At that point we transition into a different and more fundamental frame of reference. This area has many names. It has been called metaphysics, a priori, faith, religion. The name is not particularly important. The consequences of the decisions made at this fundamental level, however, are profound for they ultimately define who and what we are.

Materialism is one such choice. It is a common metaphysical trap of our era and difficult to escape once embraced.

The "evidence" trap: Why so many modern people are 'stuck' in materialism
https://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-evidence-trap-why-so-many-modern.html?m=1

The Book is a blueprint. The choice we make as individuals is like visualizing a completed structure from a set of plans and then deciding if that is what we are going to be a part of. Its a decision made ultimately with the heart too not just the intellect. Most important choices are.

The process can be difficult due to our limited perspectives and the signal loss that occurs due to the vast distance between us and the societies of the ancient past. Humanity is a terrible medium to transmit information through.

When deciding whether or not to trust it helps to focus first on the areas least susceptible to signal loss. The parables are nearly timeless and the closest part of the Bible to the source of Christianity. There are not very many of them and I recommend anyone seriously considering the topic to examine them all both with their heart and their reason.

The Parables
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/parables-of-jesus/

It has been a pleasure discussing these topics with you all. I have greatly enjoyed the back and forth. I am now called elsewhere and will disengage. I am starting a new business that will monopolize my time so this will be my last post for a while on Bitcoin Talk. I wish you all well on your individual journeys.

Goodluck and Godspeed.

[af_newbie]

Do we know anything or are we just supposed to trust the book?

Empiric knowledge can take us pretty far.

We can use such knowledge to strip away and examine the various layers of our beliefs like so many layers of an onion. Eventually, however, we reach a point were that type of reduction can go no further.

At that point we transition into a different and more fundamental frame of reference. This area has many names. It has been called metaphysics, a priori, faith, religion. The name is not particularly important. The consequences of the decisions made at this fundamental level, however, are profound for they ultimately define who and what we are.

Materialism is one such choice. It is a common metaphysical trap of our era and difficult to escape once embraced.

The "evidence" trap: Why so many modern people are 'stuck' in materialism
https://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-evidence-trap-why-so-many-modern.html?m=1

The Book is a blueprint. The choice we make as individuals is like visualizing a completed structure from a set of plans and then deciding if that is what we are going to be a part of. Its a decision made ultimately with the heart too not just the intellect. Most important choices are.

The process can be difficult due to our limited perspectives and the signal loss that occurs due to the vast distance between us and the societies of the ancient past. Humanity is a terrible medium to transmit information through.

When deciding whether or not to trust it helps to focus first on the areas least susceptible to signal loss. The parables are nearly timeless and the closest part of the Bible to the source of Christianity. There are not very many of them and I recommend anyone seriously considering the topic to examine them all both with their heart and their reason.

The Parables
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/parables-of-jesus/

It has been a pleasure discussing these topics with you all. I have greatly enjoyed the back and forth. I am now called elsewhere and will disengage. I am starting a new business that will monopolize my time so this will be my last post for a while on Bitcoin Talk. I wish you all well on your individual journeys.

Goodluck and Godspeed.

I read your article.  Basically, it says, if science would detect anything spiritual, it would still be considered material, so you would never 'leave' the materialism based worldview.

So what?

I think the definition of materialism does not really describe our current scientific discoveries.   What we consider material, is really mostly empty space, with some probabilistic energy/wave distributions that follow certain physical laws.  Electrons do not really exist as we were thought in school.

We really need a new term to describe people who do not believe in magic, spirits, ghosts, Gods or other supernatural forces or entities.

Maybe we need to call it Energism or Wavism or simply call it SWV (Scientific World View).

I think science outpaced our linguistic development.

Now, as to your point of how to 'get out of materialism prison', well, I am not sure what you are suggesting would work on any 'materialistic' scientist. The reason is that the supernatural is not a testable proposition.  So it will not be even considered.

If you want to change the mind of a 'materialist', you need to speak his/her language.  You cannot talk about scriptures or some emotional subjective experiences.  Instead, you have to talk about things that can be independently tested and validated.

What you cannot do is jump to conclusions or give answers to unknowns based on no evidence. These will be dismissed outright.

The funny thing is that most religious people think that quoting the Bible/Quran/Talmud will help them with their case, nothing can be further from the truth.  It is like talking to the Westboro Baptist and quoting the Quran.

If you want to get the attention of a 'materialist', don't use scripture, use any non-religious evidence for your claims.

[dippididodaday]

I think science outpaced our linguistic development.

We humans will never be able to escape our neurophysiologically hardwired,  linguistic meaning making mechanisms - it is rooted to the core of our being. But science has indeed prodded religious linguistics as a superficial kind, a kind that needed a rude awakening, a disillusionment if you will. Yes, it is through the applied methodology of science that religious members became disappointed, dissatisfied  and utterly discontented with the cheap spells that their various sects have so lavishly kept casting on them to keep the poor parishioners illusioned  and falsely enchanted throughout the entirety of their miserable lives.

But you are right, we need new linguistic jargon that will unleash the exploring minds of humans, but keep us grounded in the materialistic reality, through which science has granted us a much fuller, clearer (disenchanted) and sense driven understanding.

[CoinCube]

I think science outpaced our linguistic development.

We humans will never be able to escape our neurophysiologically hardwired,  linguistic meaning making mechanisms - it is rooted to the core of our being. But science has indeed prodded religious linguistics as a superficial kind, a kind that needed a rude awakening, a disillusionment if you will. Yes, it is through the applied methodology of science that religious members became disappointed, dissatisfied  and utterly discontented with the cheap spells that their various sects have so lavishly kept casting on them to keep the poor parishioners illusioned  and falsely enchanted throughout the entirety of their miserable lives.

But you are right, we need new linguistic jargon that will unleash the exploring minds of humans, but keep us grounded in the materialistic reality, through which science has granted us a much fuller, clearer (disenchanted) and sense driven understanding.

Ok one last post before I go because this is so earily similar to something I just read. Uncle Screwtape from the the book by C.S. Lewis would absolutely agree with you here dippididodaddy.

“Jargon, not argument, is your best ally in keeping him from the Church. Don't waste time trying to make him think that materialism is true! Make him think it is strong, or stark, or courageous--that it is the philosophy of the future. That's the sort of thing he cares about.
The trouble about argument is that it moves the whole struggle on to the Enemy's own ground. He can argue too; whereas in really practical propaganda of the kind I am suggesting He has been shown for centuries to be greatly the inferior of Our Father Below. By the very act of arguing, you awake the patient's reason; and once it is awake, who can foresee the result?

Even if a particular train of thought can be twisted so as to end in our favor, you will find that you have been strengthening in your patient the fatal habit of attending to universal issues and withdrawing his attention from the stream of immediate sense experiences. Your business is to fix his attention on the stream. Teach him to call it "real life" and don't let him ask what he means by "real."” - Uncle Screwtape


The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D3MWVMKKY3A&