Tennis League All Thread

[Jating]

Alcaraz suffered a foot injury (right ankle) in the second set, but he composed himself in the 3rd to close out Rafa and have his first win against him. Nadal still very positive during post injury even though he losses this match.

I was forcing Alcaraz all the time in this tournament and wanted to do the same all the way to the trophy but that foot injury has me worried. He moved poorly in second set and then started playing good in third again and that was while the injury did not have time to cool down. Could make him some problems today and if you are not on your 100% Djoković is the worst possible opponent. Really disappointed I have to skip this one.

But surprisingly, even with a foot injury, Alcaraz won against Djokovic, and he Djokovic was all praised with this kid. So skipping the match might be a good idea for now, but he will go and move to the finals but no choice to either go with him or bet on the result of Zverev and Tsitsipas later.

I didnt see any slow movement for him so i dont think the foot injury was serious at all. But he played an amazing tennis and will be no1 for sure in the future. Also Novak Djokovic had a chance in the second set and missed some clear shots that costed him the win

Yes, no signs of slow movement for Alcaraz. So we will see Alcaraz in the finals once again against Zverev.

If Alcaraz continue with his amazing run, he could be the winner. I'm just thinking of making the O/U bet on just the handicap, we will see.

[Kemarit]

Alcaraz suffered a foot injury (right ankle) in the second set, but he composed himself in the 3rd to close out Rafa and have his first win against him. Nadal still very positive during post injury even though he losses this match.

I was forcing Alcaraz all the time in this tournament and wanted to do the same all the way to the trophy but that foot injury has me worried. He moved poorly in second set and then started playing good in third again and that was while the injury did not have time to cool down. Could make him some problems today and if you are not on your 100% Djoković is the worst possible opponent. Really disappointed I have to skip this one.

But surprisingly, even with a foot injury, Alcaraz won against Djokovic, and he Djokovic was all praised with this kid. So skipping the match might be a good idea for now, but he will go and move to the finals but no choice to either go with him or bet on the result of Zverev and Tsitsipas later.

I didnt see any slow movement for him so i dont think the foot injury was serious at all. But he played an amazing tennis and will be no1 for sure in the future. Also Novak Djokovic had a chance in the second set and missed some clear shots that costed him the win

Yes, no signs of slow movement for Alcaraz. So we will see Alcaraz in the finals once again against Zverev.

If Alcaraz continue with his amazing run, he could be the winner. I'm just thinking of making the O/U bet on just the handicap, we will see.

Alcaraz ML - 1.53
Zverev ML - 2.55

Might be a 'safe' bet for Alcaraz with that odds, but you have to throw big money in order to get at least a good return.

But I like Trofo's analysis on Zverev, so this might be a very close match and tough one to call. I might as well go with the underdog Zverev here ML, maybe he can upset Alcaraz.

[Cnut237]

Might be a 'safe' bet for Alcaraz with that odds, but you have to throw big money in order to get at least a good return.

Well, Alcaraz won. It seems like he just can't lose at the moment. I know both Nadal and Djokovic are below their best, but it still takes a phenomenal performance to knock them both out on successive days. The rise of Alcaraz continues, and it doesn't like like it will be long before he's vying for the #1 ranking. There have been a few next-generation pretenders over the last decade or so, waiting to inherit top spot from the big three... it does look increasingly like Alcaraz is the real thing. Of course from a betting perspective, it means very little chance of making money on him, unless you're prepared to bet big.

[aoluain]

Might be a 'safe' bet for Alcaraz with that odds, but you have to throw big money in order to get at least a good return.

Well, Alcaraz won. It seems like he just can't lose at the moment. I know both Nadal and Djokovic are below their best, but it still takes a phenomenal performance to knock them both out on successive days. The rise of Alcaraz continues, and it doesn't like like it will be long before he's vying for the #1 ranking. There have been a few next-generation pretenders over the last decade or so, waiting to inherit top spot from the big three... it does look increasingly like Alcaraz is the real thing. Of course from a betting perspective, it means very little chance of making money on him, unless you're prepared to bet big.

Oh yes, that was some performance in 1 hour and 2 minutes to what the commentators
today said a "dismantling of Zverev's game". It was really a powerful performance by Alcaraz.

What is so evident about him is his mental ability, nothing seems to daunt him, he takes everything
in his stride, hard to believe he is only 19 at times.

[casperBGD]

~snip

Well, Alcaraz won. It seems like he just can't lose at the moment.

yeah, he won 10 matches in Spain, and got two titles
as Nadal in his days

Rome could point out is Alcaraz ready to get RG, or this was just a two tournament show
and RG win, depend on what others do, and depend on his performance in Rome, could get him on no.1 eventually

nevertheless, Nadal and Djokovic are much more dangerous at five-setters, even at their age

[Kemarit]

Might be a 'safe' bet for Alcaraz with that odds, but you have to throw big money in order to get at least a good return.

Well, Alcaraz won. It seems like he just can't lose at the moment. I know both Nadal and Djokovic are below their best, but it still takes a phenomenal performance to knock them both out on successive days. The rise of Alcaraz continues, and it doesn't like like it will be long before he's vying for the #1 ranking. There have been a few next-generation pretenders over the last decade or so, waiting to inherit top spot from the big three... it does look increasingly like Alcaraz is the real thing. Of course from a betting perspective, it means very little chance of making money on him, unless you're prepared to bet big.

Yeah, no upset this time, also Zverev lamented about the schedule of his games prior to the finals, it was kinda late then go home eat work with his physio, so by the time he finishes everything it's early morning, sleep but we all know that your body can only take that much and you need to rest in the night to be fully back 100% the next day.

Anyhow, this kid is for real, he will be moving up in ranking after this, from 7th-6th and most likely will crack the top 5 at the end of the year if he continues to perform like this.

[Cnut237]

Zverev lamented about the schedule of his games prior to the finals, it was kinda late then go home eat work with his physio, so by the time he finishes everything it's early morning, sleep but we all know that your body can only take that much and you need to rest in the night to be fully back 100% the next day.

Anyhow, this kid is for real, he will be moving up in ranking after this, from 7th-6th and most likely will crack the top 5 at the end of the year if he continues to perform like this.

The best bit of Zverev's runners up speech was when he said to Alcaraz "Even though you are still five years old you are still beating us all". That was really funny. But yes, top five looks a certainty before long for Alcaraz... if Zverev is number three, and on this showing Alcaraz is vastly better than number three already. And looking at this year's race, Alcaraz is number two, and only 70 points behind Nadal!

[Daniel91]

Zverev lamented about the schedule of his games prior to the finals, it was kinda late then go home eat work with his physio, so by the time he finishes everything it's early morning, sleep but we all know that your body can only take that much and you need to rest in the night to be fully back 100% the next day.

Anyhow, this kid is for real, he will be moving up in ranking after this, from 7th-6th and most likely will crack the top 5 at the end of the year if he continues to perform like this.

The best bit of Zverev's runners up speech was when he said to Alcaraz "Even though you are still five years old you are still beating us all". That was really funny. But yes, top five looks a certainty before long for Alcaraz... if Zverev is number three, and on this showing Alcaraz is vastly better than number three already. And looking at this year's race, Alcaraz is number two, and only 70 points behind Nadal!

I actually agree with Zverev that the organizers were not fair to him and that they gave him too little rest before the finals.
Here is his statement about it.

"The scheduling needs to be done better ... Yesterday I started my match at 11:00pm. I played three sets. Finished at 1:30, the world number three said.
Until I get back to the hotel, until I eat, until I do my work with the physio because I have to prepare my body for the next day, it's 5:00am.
If you stay up until 4:00-5:00am, the next day you are tired. If you do it two nights in a row, you are comp''

Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/61373763

Of course, no one diminishes Alcaraz’s big win in this way and Zverev would probably have lost the match even if he had rested more after the semi-finals, but the fact is that he didn’t have enough rest before the final and he was tired.

In his statement, Alcaraz showed that he is a modest and realistic tennis player:
"Djokovic is number one in the rankings. [Even though] I have won Barcelona, and I have beaten Djokovic and Rafa in Madrid, I don't consider myself the best player in the world," he said.
I also think that tomorrow I'm going to be [ranked] sixth, so I still have five players in front of me to be the best one."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/61373763

[Jating]

Zverev lamented about the schedule of his games prior to the finals, it was kinda late then go home eat work with his physio, so by the time he finishes everything it's early morning, sleep but we all know that your body can only take that much and you need to rest in the night to be fully back 100% the next day.

Anyhow, this kid is for real, he will be moving up in ranking after this, from 7th-6th and most likely will crack the top 5 at the end of the year if he continues to perform like this.

The best bit of Zverev's runners up speech was when he said to Alcaraz "Even though you are still five years old you are still beating us all". That was really funny. But yes, top five looks a certainty before long for Alcaraz... if Zverev is number three, and on this showing Alcaraz is vastly better than number three already. And looking at this year's race, Alcaraz is number two, and only 70 points behind Nadal!

I think that's true, wasn't able to bet on this one but I will probably lost anyways because I will go on over because I thought that this might go on a decider setter. So now the likes of Medvedev, Zverev and Tsitsipas should take notice of this kind because he might be the biggest threat for them to replace the big 3. Maybe 2-3 years from now, Alcaraz could be the top 1 or top 2 players dislodging them in the rankings.

[cryptofrka]

I did bet on Alcaraz, but I think nobody expected it to be as one-sided as it was. I do feel for Zverev though - as Daniel91 said, sometimes the tournament schedules don't make much sense.
Still - to beat Alcaraz in his current form Zverev would have needed a lot more than rest.

I always felt he'd be a future no. 1 at some point, it looks like he'll get there a bit faster than I thought.

[Trofo]

I did bet on Alcaraz, but I think nobody expected it to be as one-sided as it was. I do feel for Zverev though - as Daniel91 said, sometimes the tournament schedules don't make much sense.
Still - to beat Alcaraz in his current form Zverev would have needed a lot more than rest.

I always felt he'd be a future no. 1 at some point, it looks like he'll get there a bit faster than I thought.

Future came very fast for Alcaraz, no doubt about that. There is no week spot in his game and seems just like a matter of time for him to get to to no. 1.

Regarding schedule in Madrid it really wasn't fair fair for Zverev. It is not just about rest it is about sleep schedule. If Zverev is not lying he went to bed at 4 am after match against AA and then after 5am against Tsitsi. Imagine playing competitive tennis after that?

People are forgetting all the recovery players have to go trough after the match and that takes time.

[aoluain]

I did bet on Alcaraz, but I think nobody expected it to be as one-sided as it was. I do feel for Zverev though - as Daniel91 said, sometimes the tournament schedules don't make much sense.
Still - to beat Alcaraz in his current form Zverev would have needed a lot more than rest.

I always felt he'd be a future no. 1 at some point, it looks like he'll get there a bit faster than I thought.

Future came very fast for Alcaraz, no doubt about that. There is no week spot in his game and seems just like a matter of time for him to get to to no. 1.

Regarding schedule in Madrid it really wasn't fair fair for Zverev. It is not just about rest it is about sleep schedule. If Zverev is not lying he went to bed at 4 am after match against AA and then after 5am against Tsitsi. Imagine playing competitive tennis after that?

People are forgetting all the recovery players have to go trough after the match and that takes time.

I agree on both points, the schedule seemed a bit skewed leaving Zverev short on
recovery time but I would imagine he would have had ample time in between matches
to be fit enough, I mean he was in the final there is very little to be done in terms of practice.

The manner in which Alcaraz won is to be noted and his matches with Nadal and
Djokovic were not exactly easy 3 setters.

It will be very difficult to bet against him in the next few tournaments but as someone
above pointed out RG is a 5 setter so it will be different ^interesting

[Ratash]

I did bet on Alcaraz, but I think nobody expected it to be as one-sided as it was. I do feel for Zverev though - as Daniel91 said, sometimes the tournament schedules don't make much sense.
Still - to beat Alcaraz in his current form Zverev would have needed a lot more than rest.

I always felt he'd be a future no. 1 at some point, it looks like he'll get there a bit faster than I thought.

What a huge year for alcaraz already winning four big tournaments he is amazing i agree with you that he is in an amazing form and zverev needed to be in his top form to beat him he surely has the potential to be the next nadal but in my opinion its still too soon to judge we will have to see he does on a grand slam.

[Trofo]

It will be very difficult to bet against him in the next few tournaments but as someone
above pointed out RG is a 5 setter so it will be different ^interesting

That is very interesting point. You would think that young players should be better suited to play those longer matches then 35+ years old guys right? And then comes grand slam and Nadal or Djoković wipe the floor with all these new lions. I am thinking that one day of rest between matches does wonders for recovery of the older guys and offsets age advantage and then it comes to experience and mental aspect where they are without match.

That being said, I can't find a fault from mental point in Alcaraz so maybe we have a proper contender after all. Medvedev always looks like loosing it when score isn't in his favor, Zverev starts trowing unforced errors and double faults under pressure, Rublev was always in problems when put under pressure maybe only Tsistsipas has a chance of something big in RG. I feel like other players simply don't have the quality or form for even reaching semi finals.

If the draw allows it, IMHO semi final spots are reserved for:
Djoković, Nadal, Alcaraz and Tsitsipas

With the note that Djoković looks more vulnerable than ever in last couple of years and Nadal is just getting back from injury but I just know they will bring their shit together and be on their best when RG starts.

[aoluain]

^
I argue that the 5 set grand slams require these traits in order of importance but all 4
are very closely inter-connected.....in order to WIN: ^{possibly no's 1 and 2 could be swapped}

1. - Mental strength
2. - Experience
3. - Skill
4. - Fitness

This is how I see it currently...

Who has^{or will have for RG} all 4 traits? Nadal and Djokovic

Who has 3 of the traits? Tsitsipas^{2, 3 & 4} and Alcaraz^{1, 3 & 4} but I think
Alcaraz' mental strength outweighs Tsitsipas' experience.

What do you think?

[bitbollo]

...
Who has 3 of the traits? Tsitsipas^{2, 3 & 4} and Alcaraz^{1, 3 & 4} but I think
Alcaraz' mental strength outweighs Tsitsipas' experience.

What do you think?

Alcaraz is in a state of grace after winning the last two tournaments played and a series of matches against highly respected opponents (Nadal Djokovic Zverev...)
His young age is certainly a big plus. Now what is missing is continuity in performance... only time will be right or wrong in this aspect.

[Trofo]

^
I argue that the 5 set grand slams require these traits in order of importance but all 4
<<sinp>>
Alcaraz' mental strength outweighs Tsitsipas' experience.

What do you think?

For future reference, if you are asking for my opinion, quote me or mention me by name, that way bot notifies me immediately and I answer very quickly. If this was plural you, than you did it perfectly. English is way too simplified language sometimes

I can't quantify grand slam traits the way you do it. For me it is simply the case of "absolute qoulity" having more time to show itself over BO5 matches. Absolute qoulity defined as combination of all those traits you mentioned plus several more, to name 2 important ones you forgot: form and surface prowess.

Every tournament is new thing and I like watching players play and upping my stakes as we progress to the final and I actually see how they perform on that particular tournament. There is so many "small" things that can totally skew the results and I don't have enough information before the tournament starts.

For instance just finished Masters in Madrid is played on high altitude which results in ball behaving in a such way that Nadal looses a lot of his game while Zverev gains. Even though it is clay tournament, check the winners and you'll probably be a little surprised.

RG is totally quite different conditions depending on general weather so I can't give any proper predictions at this stage. I just picked 4 by far best overall players at this moment on clay and I believe they will do well.

[aoluain]

...
Who has 3 of the traits? Tsitsipas^{2, 3 & 4} and Alcaraz^{1, 3 & 4} but I think
Alcaraz' mental strength outweighs Tsitsipas' experience.

What do you think?

Alcaraz is in a state of grace after winning the last two tournaments played and a series of matches against highly respected opponents (Nadal Djokovic Zverev...)
His young age is certainly a big plus. Now what is missing is continuity in performance... only time will be right or wrong in this aspect.

And experience! gaining experience as well as honing skills and staying fit will
result a very rounded player, Alcaraz has it all in front of him.

^
I argue that the 5 set grand slams require these traits in order of importance but all 4
<<sinp>>
Alcaraz' mental strength outweighs Tsitsipas' experience.

What do you think?

For future reference, if you are asking for my opinion, quote me or mention me by name, that way bot notifies me immediately and I answer very quickly. If this was plural you, than you did it perfectly. English is way too simplified language sometimes

I can't quantify grand slam traits the way you do it. For me it is simply the case of "absolute qoulity" having more time to show itself over BO5 matches. Absolute qoulity defined as combination of all those traits you mentioned plus several more, to name 2 important ones you forgot: form and surface prowess.

snip

@Trofo - apologies it was an open question, I should have worded it differently, everyones
opinion is welcome of course but I think you have touched  on a lot of other considerations,
thank you.

5. - Form
6. - Surface Prowess

are indeed other factors, major factors actually and the one who matches these the
best so far is Alcaraz IMO.

Its actually interesting when we consider everything mentioned above how complex
the sport is and how so many factors play their part in a players performance.

[BitcoinAccepted]

That boy Alcaraz could well become the new global world champion. Winning against Djokovic, Nadal and Zverev is no longer a coincidence. And he just played really good. At his age, that's really unique. I am curious if he can continue his advance and how he will fare in Roland Garros. He can become the champion there, but because of his little experience he can also lose in the first round. I would love to see Nadal against Alcaraz at Roland Garros.

[Kemarit]

Its actually interesting when we consider everything mentioned above how complex
the sport is and how so many factors play their part in a players performance.

And that's how we appreciate how previous champions, specially the big 3 has dominated the game for the last decade because it is really different with so many factors to consider and I guess the argument for who is the best or GOAT is an open-ended discussions.

As for Alcaraz, yeah, I do agree that he possesses this strength and we have seen it already. It's just a question on how he will developed it and hopefully one aspect that we need to consider as well, he needs to be healthy or at least his body is not going to give in from injuries as to what happened to Andy Murray.