Tennis League All Thread

[Daniel91]

''Former world number one Naomi Osaka was brought to tears by a heckler during her 6-0 6-4 defeat by Veronika Kudermetova at Indian Wells.''
''While holding back tears, Japan's Osaka said: "I've been heckled before and it didn't really bother me.
But being heckled here. I've watched video of Venus and Serena get heckled here and if you've never watched it, you should watch it. And I don't know why, but it went into my head and got replayed a lot."''

Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/60726023

I really like Osaka as a tennis player and I really saw her as Serena’s successor in women’s tennis.
Unfortunately, it's obvious that psychologically she is still not ready for a real return to the top of women's tennis.
I'm very sorry to see that one great tennis talent fails to overcome her psychological problems and play again at the former level.
If Osaka wants to save its tennis career, it's high time to seek professional psychological help.
Women's tennis needs a great champion like her.
This would also help the popularity of women's tennis and increase the interest of sponsors.

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[Cnut237]

I really like Osaka as a tennis player and I really saw her as Serena’s successor in women’s tennis.
Unfortunately, it's obvious that psychologically she is still not ready for a real return to the top of women's tennis.
I'm very sorry to see that one great tennis talent fails to overcome her psychological problems and play again at the former level.
If Osaka wants to save its tennis career, it's high time to seek professional psychological help.
Women's tennis needs a great champion like her.
This would also help the popularity of women's tennis and increase the interest of sponsors.

She does seem to be struggling. It's a good thing though that athletes are starting to be more open about the problems they have faced. Osaka may not be having quite the success on the court that she used to, but she has been hugely influential in encouraging others to open up, and has been a world-leader in this regard... Simone Biles being another big example here.

[buwaytress]

aoluain, Trofo, couldn't agree more. Winning ugly shouldn't be the mantra, but it should always be a weapon in your arsenal. Campaigns and tournaments can't all be won playing beautifully. Scary to see Nadal still know how to bag the wins by being at his shittiest.

Anyway, I've only got my old friend Tsitsi on an outright, but instead of winning, I've just backed him to reach the final. 87/10 but long way to go.

Re Osaka... I can't really comment. I think it's terrible how it was all managed, young talents should be protected, modern sports and all that. But yeah, take a break, come back proper. Be stronger. That's all there is to it, once all's said and done.

[mv1986]

Murray vs Bublik - surprisingly Murray is the favorite to win, what do you guys think about this match?

Why not take the risk and go for Bublik in this match?

We have talk how Murray is old and past his prime and maybe Bublik can take this one and win. The ML is attractive enough with the odds @2.x.

Nadal 16/16, just shows that he still got it, he said that there is no pressure from him, so this numbers can go up in this tournament.

Of course Murray is still a good tennis player, but I think that his prime is certainly over.

Bublik is 24 years old and ranked 33rd right now in the overall ATP ranking. I think that Bublik is going to beat Murray here. Bublik has shown a couple of strong matches against stronger players or players that were in better shape than Murray currently is in. I guess Murray still suffers from his hip surgery. Usually professionals who got some artificial join replacement won't ever get back to their old levels let alone play again at all.

[aoluain]

aoluain, Trofo, couldn't agree more. Winning ugly shouldn't be the mantra, but it should always be a weapon in your arsenal. Campaigns and tournaments can't all be won playing beautifully. Scary to see Nadal still know how to bag the wins by being at his shittiest.

Anyway, I've only got my old friend Tsitsi on an outright, but instead of winning, I've just backed him to reach the final. 87/10 but long way to go.

Re Osaka... I can't really comment. I think it's terrible how it was all managed, young talents should be protected, modern sports and all that. But yeah, take a break, come back proper. Be stronger. That's all there is to it, once all's said and done.

Re: Tsitsipas, he isnt on my radar anymore, I lost a lot of bets last year with him
and he seemed to struggle yesterday against Jack Sock, no disrespect to Sock.

Re: Osaka, I feel really sorry for her, that incident obviously affected her, she lost that
first set 0-6. She rightly so asked for that scum to be removed but it seems they
couldnt identify it. Its ok to cheer on you player, obviously at the right moments but
to heckle Osaka is not OK, that scum should have been made an example of.

[Trofo]

Re: Osaka, I feel really sorry for her, that incident obviously affected her, she lost that
first set 0-6. She rightly so asked for that scum to be removed but it seems they
couldnt identify it. Its ok to cheer on you player, obviously at the right moments but
to heckle Osaka is not OK, that scum should have been made an example of.

I am also really sorry for Osaka but there wasn't some really big incident here. Hell I heard some much worse insults thrown my way from opposing supporters. That stuff happens and professional players must learn to cope with it. I know Osaka is a bit of special case because of her issues but maybe guy yelling that did not know it.

To be clear I am not absolving the heckler but realistically stuff like that will happen often and she needs to find a way to deal with it.

[Rabi3]

Murray vs Bublik - surprisingly Murray is the favorite to win, what do you guys think about this match?

Why not take the risk and go for Bublik in this match?

We have talk how Murray is old and past his prime and maybe Bublik can take this one and win. The ML is attractive enough with the odds @2.x.

that was a good prediction, Bublik did actually win, Murray put up a good fight in the first set and had chances to win it, and I think if did won it things could have been really different, Murray gave Bublik troubles on his serve games and managed to win games on his serve quite easily but things went the other way on the second set for Murray on his serve and it only took one game on his serve to cost him the second set and match, I hate to admit it but Murray is done competitively.

[ufaiz50]

Murray vs Bublik - surprisingly Murray is the favorite to win, what do you guys think about this match?

Why not take the risk and go for Bublik in this match?

We have talk how Murray is old and past his prime and maybe Bublik can take this one and win. The ML is attractive enough with the odds @2.x.

that was a good prediction, Bublik did actually win, Murray put up a good fight in the first set and had chances to win it, and I think if did won it things could have been really different, Murray gave Bublik troubles on his serve games and managed to win games on his serve quite easily but things went the other way on the second set for Murray on his serve and it only took one game on his serve to cost him the second set and match, I hate to admit it but Murray is done competitively.

Murry used to be a great player. One of the few who often beat Federer. Now he wants to, you can see that he has a fighting spirit, but because of his artificial hip it is just one level lower. Because of his talent and willpower he can still win some games, but he will never make it to the top 10. Perhaps it would still be an idea if he started to focus on doubles, in which his brother is also often active.

[Kemarit]

aoluain, Trofo, couldn't agree more. Winning ugly shouldn't be the mantra, but it should always be a weapon in your arsenal. Campaigns and tournaments can't all be won playing beautifully. Scary to see Nadal still know how to bag the wins by being at his shittiest.

Anyway, I've only got my old friend Tsitsi on an outright, but instead of winning, I've just backed him to reach the final. 87/10 but long way to go.

Re Osaka... I can't really comment. I think it's terrible how it was all managed, young talents should be protected, modern sports and all that. But yeah, take a break, come back proper. Be stronger. That's all there is to it, once all's said and done.

Re: Tsitsipas, he isnt on my radar anymore, I lost a lot of bets last year with him
and he seemed to struggle yesterday against Jack Sock, no disrespect to Sock.

Yeah, for sure you know me by being a big supporter of Tsitsipas for the last two years. But it seems that he has lost some momentum and that hungry is not there anymore. Although he is still in the top 5 his contemporaries like Medvedev and Zverev are way above him now.

Re: Osaka, I feel really sorry for her, that incident obviously affected her, she lost that
first set 0-6. She rightly so asked for that scum to be removed but it seems they
couldnt identify it. Its ok to cheer on you player, obviously at the right moments but
to heckle Osaka is not OK, that scum should have been made an example of.

They should put more securities just like in other sports. I know that in NBA some fans can be escorted out of the court if the players complain about them. Osaka though really needs to get stronger mentality because this is sports and there could be hecklers trying to distract you.

[babygun]

I am also really sorry for Osaka but there wasn't some really big incident here. Hell I heard some much worse insults thrown my way from opposing supporters. That stuff happens and professional players must learn to cope with it. I know Osaka is a bit of special case because of her issues but maybe guy yelling that did not know it.

To be clear I am not absolving the heckler but realistically stuff like that will happen often and she needs to find a way to deal with it.

I think she will always struggle with that... She is a great talent and could potentially become a really great champion but if she keeps struggling with situations like this than she will probably not make the maximum out of her career. And as you mention, I already heard insults that were a lot harsher than these.

[buwaytress]

Anyone actually expect Raducanu to drop out so early? I've never convinced myself to bet on her after her perfect GS, always felt that was a bit of a one-off (and I know saying this may very well bit me in the ass one day).

Re: Tsitsipas, he isnt on my radar anymore, I lost a lot of bets last year with him
and he seemed to struggle yesterday against Jack Sock, no disrespect to Sock.

Re: Osaka, I feel really sorry for her, that incident obviously affected her, she lost that
first set 0-6. She rightly so asked for that scum to be removed but it seems they
couldnt identify it. Its ok to cheer on you player, obviously at the right moments but
to heckle Osaka is not OK, that scum should have been made an example of.

A bit stubborn of me to stick with the Greek after consecutive letdowns too, expected him to overperform in AO but last month final appearance gives me hope he may yet surprise me, but yeah definitely downgrading my outrights on tennis for the time-being.

I get what Trofo's saying too, I get heckling is part of the game (same as I get that for some players they're abusive, whatever) but it's never cool to pick on someone who's obviously not in the right frame of mind. I'm happy to insult all my friends all day long too, but the moment I know they're not able to take it, or they're already down, I'm not touching them. Picking on the weak? That's playground bullying. If the guy didn't know it, he would have admitted to it by now.

But in the end, yeah, Osaka needs to return when she can deal with it. Part of growing up is facing down those bullies. I should know

[casperBGD]

~snip

I get what Trofo's saying too, I get heckling is part of the game (same as I get that for some players they're abusive, whatever) but it's never cool to pick on someone who's obviously not in the right frame of mind. I'm happy to insult all my friends all day long too, but the moment I know they're not able to take it, or they're already down, I'm not touching them. Picking on the weak? That's playground bullying. If the guy didn't know it, he would have admitted to it by now.

agree on this one, you can "insult" your friends, if they can handle it, and give you back "insults", it is a good game
but, if there is someone that cannot handle it, then you stop, because hurting someone should not be part of the game

on the other side, they are playing in public, should have some mental consultants, or someone to help them with it, because there will always be someone to bullying them, you have to know how to handle it on the pitch

[Jating]

Murray vs Bublik - surprisingly Murray is the favorite to win, what do you guys think about this match?

Why not take the risk and go for Bublik in this match?

We have talk how Murray is old and past his prime and maybe Bublik can take this one and win. The ML is attractive enough with the odds @2.x.

that was a good prediction, Bublik did actually win, Murray put up a good fight in the first set and had chances to win it, and I think if did won it things could have been really different, Murray gave Bublik troubles on his serve games and managed to win games on his serve quite easily but things went the other way on the second set for Murray on his serve and it only took one game on his serve to cost him the second set and match, I hate to admit it but Murray is done competitively.

Thanks, @2.34 I will take that win anytime of the day. I didn't watch the match though, time difference, but I'm glad that I won my bet.

Zverev and Carreno-Busta is out, both are favorites to win their respective match, tough lost for both of them as the match was extended to a 3rd set and in a time break.

[Daniel91]

Anyone actually expect Raducanu to drop out so early? I've never convinced myself to bet on her after her perfect GS, always felt that was a bit of a one-off (and I know saying this may very well bit me in the ass one day).

Re: Tsitsipas, he isnt on my radar anymore, I lost a lot of bets last year with him
and he seemed to struggle yesterday against Jack Sock, no disrespect to Sock.

Re: Osaka, I feel really sorry for her, that incident obviously affected her, she lost that
first set 0-6. She rightly so asked for that scum to be removed but it seems they
couldnt identify it. Its ok to cheer on you player, obviously at the right moments but
to heckle Osaka is not OK, that scum should have been made an example of.

A bit stubborn of me to stick with the Greek after consecutive letdowns too, expected him to overperform in AO but last month final appearance gives me hope he may yet surprise me, but yeah definitely downgrading my outrights on tennis for the time-being.

I get what Trofo's saying too, I get heckling is part of the game (same as I get that for some players they're abusive, whatever) but it's never cool to pick on someone who's obviously not in the right frame of mind. I'm happy to insult all my friends all day long too, but the moment I know they're not able to take it, or they're already down, I'm not touching them. Picking on the weak? That's playground bullying. If the guy didn't know it, he would have admitted to it by now.

But in the end, yeah, Osaka needs to return when she can deal with it. Part of growing up is facing down those bullies. I should know

It seems to me that Raducanu still doesn't have enough stability in her game and does not know how to cope with the pressure of high expectations after winning the GS last year.
She also changed the coach with whom she achieved the greatest success in life and after that she is not able to repeat that result.
Maybe she needs psychological support as well.

As for Osaka, judging by her statements and reactions, she is a very emotional and vulnerable girl, who is having a hard time coping with a lot of public pressure.
If she fails to overcome this, perhaps with some professional help, I don’t see her being able to return to the top of women’s tennis.

[Cnut237]

I am also really sorry for Osaka but there wasn't some really big incident here. Hell I heard some much worse insults thrown my way from opposing supporters. That stuff happens and professional players must learn to cope with it. I know Osaka is a bit of special case because of her issues but maybe guy yelling that did not know it.

To be clear I am not absolving the heckler but realistically stuff like that will happen often and she needs to find a way to deal with it.

I think she will always struggle with that... She is a great talent and could potentially become a really great champion but if she keeps struggling with situations like this than she will probably not make the maximum out of her career. And as you mention, I already heard insults that were a lot harsher than these.

Professional sports can be ruthless, and at the top level opponents will look for any way to beat you, any chink in your armour. Unfortunately for Osaka, her opponents will always know that she can be destabilised mentally, and I would not be at all surprised if some of them started to exploit this and try to work it to their advantage. Osaka is hugely talented, and the work she is doing highlighting mental health is really important... but the downside is that she is easier to beat.

[Trofo]

Anyone actually expect Raducanu to drop out so early? I've never convinced myself to bet on her after her perfect GS, always felt that was a bit of a one-off (and I know saying this may very well bit me in the ass one day).

Actually yes but I did not play it. To be fair I expected a though match but was not sure who will go through. Petra Martić is very versatile player. She has all the shots and mixes them sevaral times in any point. That is something that leaves a lot of players in problems how to respond. Her problem is blackouts throughout the match. Check yesterday match and you will see that Martic was better player and then she will loose 2 games in a row without winning a point.

Raducanu is one tournament wonder for me and she will have to work hard to get constant reaults.

[Cnut237]

Anyone actually expect Raducanu to drop out so early? I've never convinced myself to bet on her after her perfect GS, always felt that was a bit of a one-off (and I know saying this may very well bit me in the ass one day).

I expected her to drop out early, yes. She has been struggling since the US Open. I would not recommend betting on her to win matches at the moment.

Raducanu is one tournament wonder for me and she will have to work hard to get constant reaults.

I'd disagree with this, though. People forget that the US Open wasn't her first ever slam, it was actually her second. Her first slam was Wimbledon a couple of months earlier... in which she reached the last 16, and retired (rather than being beaten). That in itself was quite an extraordinary performance, it's just that the US Open eclipsed it so it's not really remembered. I may be biased being British myself, but she has been on the radar as the next big thing for quite some time now, and her breakthrough was more a question of when, than if.

I think her struggles since the US are certainly partly the weight of expectation, but also partly due to getting used to the rigours of the tour. Remember, due to lockdowns and restrictions on international travel, she hasn't really been seasoned in the lower-tier circuit before breaking through at the top level... she's new to professional tennis.

Her struggles in 2022 are I think partly the aftermath of her catching Covid over Christmas, and then maybe her trying too hard, rather than not hard enough. A couple of times this year she's come back earlier than expected, and indeed she was advised not to play Indian Wells. Also some of the problems such as the blistering that forced her out of the AO may be due to over-practice (although I'm speculating on that).

Mentally she seems very grounded, and she certainly has the game to be at the top. She went through 10 matches (including qualifying) to win a slam without dropping a set, and that doesn't happen by accident.
But it will take time for her to get used to the tour, and that includes when to play and when not to. I certainly think that once she gets settled, she should be a solid top 10 player. Again, for me, it's when, not if.

[buwaytress]

@Trofo
Yeah, actually I just put Petra's game tomorrow on an acca with Tsitsi to get 2 legs up on Champions League football. Don't know much about her but I picked the best-looking 2/1 player after what should be a morale-boosting victory to get the better of Samsonova (and she's beaten her not too long ago).

@Cnut237
She's too young, I think, yeah, physically as well and that's not at all a criticism from me, just a matter of physics. Really important consideration for the rigours of a tournament, match fitness and conditioning hasn't quite had the time to set in. I know I say it without any real basis but I really do think her fantasy run was fantastical and sporting miracle that I doubt we'll see again soon. I always say there's a need to protect young talents and realign expectations. For the future this one, but it must be great times to be watching British Sports.

[Trofo]

Mentally she seems very grounded, and she certainly has the game to be at the top. She went through 10 matches (including qualifying) to win a slam without dropping a set, and that doesn't happen by accident.
But it will take time for her to get used to the tour, and that includes when to play and when not to. I certainly think that once she gets settled, she should be a solid top 10 player. Again, for me, it's when, not if.

Maybe I wrote it a bit wrong with one tournament wonder. I meant it more in a way that it is unrealistic to expect her to play like that every week. She is a big hitter and almost all big hitters are very form dependent. When everything is going their way they are unplayable and when those same balls start to go out, unforced errors get a bit out of hand. She does look strong mentally and that is maybe most important, especially on WTA.

Did not watch her enough since she is very young and it is too early to tell but so far I am thinking maybe she is a player for big stages sort of like Wawrinka. Prone to loosing against weaker opponents in early rounds, especially in smaller tournaments, but when they get to later stages of the grand slam nobody can be called favorite against them.

I also believe she is top 10 for sure but probably not this year. Still a lot to learn, mostly how to grind out a win on bad days.

[aoluain]

I am also really sorry for Osaka but there wasn't some really big incident here. Hell I heard some much worse insults thrown my way from opposing supporters. That stuff happens and professional players must learn to cope with it. I know Osaka is a bit of special case because of her issues but maybe guy yelling that did not know it.

To be clear I am not absolving the heckler but realistically stuff like that will happen often and she needs to find a way to deal with it.

I think she will always struggle with that... She is a great talent and could potentially become a really great champion but if she keeps struggling with situations like this than she will probably not make the maximum out of her career. And as you mention, I already heard insults that were a lot harsher than these.

Professional sports can be ruthless, and at the top level opponents will look for any way to beat you, any chink in your armour. Unfortunately for Osaka, her opponents will always know that she can be destabilised mentally, and I would not be at all surprised if some of them started to exploit this and try to work it to their advantage. Osaka is hugely talented, and the work she is doing highlighting mental health is really important... but the downside is that she is easier to beat.

It was a woman who heckled Osaka, She or people she is connected to probably
had a massive wager on Kudermetova to win! I agree that Osaka and all players
should be able to deal with something like this but I dont think this happens all
that often in professional Tennis