[ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet

[bitcats]

Price should be around € 100, but it still depends on many factors, what I read on a blog.

Ouch, that seems a little expensive. I mean, can't you buy old smartphones with that amount? Or perhaps second-hand netbooks that you could format and turn into an offline wallet.

100 € is definitely NOT expensive!

[Mike Hearn]

Smartphones can achieve their absurdly low prices because they are mass produced and it's a highly competitive market. Obviously something that is hand assembled by stick and slush is going to be more expensive. Fortunately, if the initial runs are proven out and demand is there, doing a larger production run in China is well within the reach of even small operations and then the price can come down. 100 euros for a first run is actually better than I was expecting, though I noticed stick/slush didn't confirm that price.

However, yes, the basic point does hold and I made it many times in the past - it is tough to beat smartphones on price and features, so I think we'll see them be used as second factors quite a lot.

A dedicated hardware wallet/secure display has the advantage of not being reflashable to a malicious OS build which steals private keys. I don't know of any way to buy a smartphone, reflash the OS and then prevent it from being reflashed again. Theoretically manufacturers could offer that feature but in practice they don't because there are no uses for it.

The other advantage is that because they don't run apps and are very limited, there's no temptation for users to install random crap on them. The most likely way to get keys held in a smartphone stolen is by giving into temptation and making it not a dedicated device anymore, then installing a malicious app that roots it. That can't happen with a Trezor.

[cbeast]

Just curious on the progress with Trezor.

[stick]

Just curious on the progress with Trezor.

We are working our asses off, that's why we haven't posted for a while. Unfortunately, Trezor is not our only project, so it takes some time. Stay tuned and please be patient.

[lebing]

Just curious on the progress with Trezor.

We are working our asses off, that's why we haven't posted for a while. Unfortunately, Trezor is not our only project, so it takes some time. Stay tuned and please be patient.

/patiently waiting

[slush]

Trésor Stick :-P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl8exp-YIGw

[Ente]

Trésor Stick :-P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl8exp-YIGw

Om nom nom Bitcoins nom nom!

Ente

[molecular]

Trésor Stick :-P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl8exp-YIGw

hahahahaaa.

[eldentyrell]

Just re-iterating my hope that you make the firmware split (fixed bootloader and reflashable main part), that way, when the payment protocol work is progressing it will be a smooth upgrade to have Trezors show names instead of addresses.

After long discussions with Stick, we decided that we'll offer also unlocked devices (bootloader + refreshable memory), so people will be able to update firmware.

Hooray!

You could also add the ability for the user to choose to (irreversably) blow out the programming fuse.  If I were going to give one of these to my grandma I'd do that to it first.

100 € is definitely NOT expensive!

Agreed.

[eldentyrell]

But it looks like that's a female USB mini/micro-B connector, which means you need a cable in order to use it.  Is that true, or am I mistaken?  I kinda think most people would prefer a device that's cable-wise self-sufficient (like Yubikeys) so they don't have to go hunting around for the right type of cable.

Due to the size of the device (is near twice the width of a standard USB key)  is better to have require a cable:

Of course not; having an A-type male connector doesn't prevent you from using a cable!

Unfortunately having a B-type female connector does prevent you from using it when you don't have a cable.  Which means that you pretty much have to carry around a cable -- doubling Trezor's effective size -- in order to realize its "secure bitcoin operations via random insecure desktops" vision.  Kinda sad, hope you'll reconsider...

[niko]

having an A-type male connector doesn't prevent you from using a cable!

Unfortunately having a B-type female connector does prevent you from using it when you don't have a cable.  Which means that you pretty much have to carry around a cable -- doubling Trezor's effective size -- in order to realize its "secure bitcoin operations via random insecure desktops" vision.

This makes perfect sense. Please consider the A-type male connector.

[stick]

Unfortunately having a B-type female connector does prevent you from using it when you don't have a cable.  Which means that you pretty much have to carry around a cable -- doubling Trezor's effective size -- in order to realize its "secure bitcoin operations via random insecure desktops" vision.  Kinda sad, hope you'll reconsider...

You would need the mentioned cable in 70%+ of cases when using "random insecure desktops" anyway.  But we'll think about it again ...

[Garrett Burgwardt]

+1 for having  a USB A male connector, usb extension cables are easy enough to get if needed, and I can't imagine it'd cost /more/ to use that type of connector vs a female B type.

[stick]

+1 for having  a USB A male connector, usb extension cables are easy enough to get if needed, and I can't imagine it'd cost /more/ to use that type of connector vs a female B type.

The price of the connector was never an issue. USB A male connector has more disadvantages than advantages so I don't think we'll change it from USB micro B female.

[niko]

+1 for having  a USB A male connector, usb extension cables are easy enough to get if needed, and I can't imagine it'd cost /more/ to use that type of connector vs a female B type.

The price of the connector was never an issue. USB A male connector has more disadvantages than advantages so I don't think we'll change it from USB micro B female.

Female connector requires a cable. Male connector enables direct connection to PC, and if space is too crowded a cable can be used. What are comparative disadvantages of the male connector?

[cbeast]

+1 for having  a USB A male connector, usb extension cables are easy enough to get if needed, and I can't imagine it'd cost /more/ to use that type of connector vs a female B type.

The price of the connector was never an issue. USB A male connector has more disadvantages than advantages so I don't think we'll change it from USB micro B female.

Female connector requires a cable. Male connector enables direct connection to PC, and if space is too crowded a cable can be used. What are comparative disadvantages of the male connector?

This is an early design of what may one day be wireless. It would probably be best to use a cable, possibly as a lanyard for the device. A cable will be a cheap replacement if the connectors wear out.

[2112]

What are comparative disadvantages of the male connector?

That the people will plug it into their desktop, which actually sits under the desk or otherwise in a non-easily viewable place. Then they will blindly press the acknowledge buttons without really checking the display on the Trezor.

Outside of North America pretty much every household already has the required cable. It is a cell-phone industry standard charging and interface cable.

[stick]

What are comparative disadvantages of the male connector?

Disadvantages are mechanical -> device needs to be bigger and if you wear it on your keychain and/or in your pockets sooner or later you will break the connector.

That the people will plug it into their desktop, which actually sits under the desk or otherwise in a non-easily viewable place. Then they will blindly press the acknowledge buttons without really checking the display on the Trezor.

Exactly, nice to see there are people that understand the issue! Others saying that there's no need for cable and that USB A male connector is better, try this:

1) plug an USB stick into your computer
2) try reading USB stick's brand name written on the stick and at the same time look at your computer's monitor
3) imagine the text on the stick is not 4-6 letters but around 30 almost random letters

[HeavySteel]

Price should be around € 100, but it still depends on many factors, what I read on a blog.

Ouch, that seems a little expensive. I mean, can't you buy old smartphones with that amount? Or perhaps second-hand netbooks that you could format and turn into an offline wallet.

100 € is definitely NOT expensive!

If it makes the use of bitcoins closer to becoming idiot-proof, 100 EUR is worth it.  I'd buy one.  With it's success, the price will certainly come down when serious demand for the product picks up.

[niko]

What are comparative disadvantages of the male connector?

Disadvantages are mechanical -> device needs to be bigger and if you wear it on your keychain and/or in your pockets sooner or later you will break the connector.

That the people will plug it into their desktop, which actually sits under the desk or otherwise in a non-easily viewable place. Then they will blindly press the acknowledge buttons without really checking the display on the Trezor.

Exactly, nice to see there are people that understand the issue! Others saying that there's no need for cable and that USB A male connector is better, try this:

1) plug an USB stick into your computer
2) try reading USB stick's brand name written on the stick and at the same time look at your computer's monitor
3) imagine the text on the stick is not 4-6 letters but around 30 almost random letters

Thanks, this makes sense.