Bryan Micon's Butterfly Labs Scammer Investigation including Josh Zerlan

[21after2]

Oh, I didn't realize anyone thought this was a REAL die picture!  I thought it was understood from the start that it was just a drawing/CAD file of some sort.  Yeah, no argument on that from me!  They don't have the chips yet, how could they expect to take a picture of one?

I thought the picture was pretty obvious from a glance.

[SgtSpike]

Oh, I didn't realize anyone thought this was a REAL die picture!  I thought it was understood from the start that it was just a drawing/CAD file of some sort.  Yeah, no argument on that from me!  They don't have the chips yet, how could they expect to take a picture of one?

I thought the picture was pretty obvious from a glance.

Indeed...

People said "This isn't a die," and by that, I thought they meant it wasn't a die (drawing or not), not that it wasn't a real picture of a die.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Oh, I didn't realize anyone thought this was a REAL die picture!  I thought it was understood from the start that it was just a drawing/CAD file of some sort.  Yeah, no argument on that from me!  They don't have the chips yet, how could they expect to take a picture of one?

I thought the picture was pretty obvious from a glance.

Indeed...

People said "This isn't a die," and by that, I thought they meant it wasn't a die (drawing or not), not that it wasn't a real picture of a die.

Didn't Josh dedicate a line or two depicting the image? I now can't seem to find what I thought I read. I even vaguely remember him linking to the image on BFL's forum, that's why I'm now taken aback to see the image sans the link. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[SgtSpike]

Oh, I didn't realize anyone thought this was a REAL die picture!  I thought it was understood from the start that it was just a drawing/CAD file of some sort.  Yeah, no argument on that from me!  They don't have the chips yet, how could they expect to take a picture of one?

I thought the picture was pretty obvious from a glance.

Indeed...

People said "This isn't a die," and by that, I thought they meant it wasn't a die (drawing or not), not that it wasn't a real picture of a die.

Didn't Josh dedicate a line or two depicting the image? I now can't seem to find what I thought I read. I even vaguely remember him linking to the image on BFL's forum, that's why I'm now taken aback to see the image sans the link. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Yeah, I seem to remember him saying something about the image as well.  Just re-read the original status update, and it's not in there (though that is where the picture was originally posted)... Hmmm...
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Remember this funny video put up a few days ago? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ERE4uiufqE Click it for a second to refresh your memory, then return here.

Now check this out. This site has a feature video that... http://www.sgcib.com/ (Nasser works at this bank.)

[Micon]

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/713-josh-have-fun-california.html#post10830

That GPS is from a 1976 Baron twin.

We had a good meeting with both the substrate facility and the packaging facility. We are still working out the details for the bumping, but it should be resolved before the end of next week. We didn't see the factory floor of the substrate facility and the packaging facility would not allow pictures, though it was pretty cool.

no pictures.

Will be interesting to see how this timeline progresses:

Week of January 13th
Travel to packaging facility for final prep and walkthrough
Confirm travel plans and trip details with lead ASIC engineer for trip to fab

Week of January 20th
Final assembly facility prep
Leave for fab at the end of the week

Week of January 26th
Final chips roll off the line
Grab suitcase, a BMW or a Peugeot and make a break for the airport, Ronin style (You can see Tom about 6 minutes, 20 seconds into the video)
Arrive California at chip packaging plant
KC facility starts assembly process of units to drop PCB into

Week of February 3rd
Chips packaged
Packaged chips sent to assembly house
Assembled PCB is set for final testing and MCU programming
Notify users to start sending their FPGA units or BTC for trade in participants
Bulk assembled PCBs arrive in KC, we start dropping PCBs into waiting units
Boxing/labeling for shipment

Week of February 10th
We implement the 1/3 shipping plan en mass
1/3 of our assembled units will go to new orders in FIFO
1/3 of our assembled units will go to upgrade orders
1/3 will be randomly selected from both groups

We descend upon the Post Office, DHL, UPS and FedEx like a horde of angry locust

He is supposed to be in Peugeot by week of 26th.

[MooC Tals]

no pictures.

interesting

[usagi]

no pictures.

interesting

"The packaging facility would not let me take any pictures unfortunately and we did not visit the substrate factory floor."

This is a huge problem and needs to be addressed immediately. There's absolutely no reason why they couldn't come away with something. I'm a BFL supporter but this is not good. We need to see something. Anything.

[MooC Tals]

no pictures.

interesting

"The packaging facility would not let me take any pictures unfortunately and we did not visit the substrate factory floor."

This is a huge problem and needs to be addressed immediately. There's absolutely no reason why they couldn't come away with something. I'm a BFL supporter but this is not good. We need to see something. Anything.

I also was a BFL supporter until I requested/received my refund. If you know what I mean. Now I'm a fan and watching all this by the bleachers.

As of now I believe BFL does not have to worry about competition like his update has said so pictures of products could be shown. Facilities in the process of packaging that don't want pictures taken sounds like it could be true. However no picture of the outside building?

Oh maybe we might call them and get secret information leaked out. BULLSHIT

How about a box that has been done? You would think they would want to show some pictures to exonerate their tarnished image and start a new volley of orders. Na too much logic there!!! OL

So it boils down to Greed<>FEAR . If I request for refund I might miss out vs If I don't I will lose my money and my product.

 

[Micon]

Info still needed:

-- Full company info of BFL
---- Exactly company name
---- State of incorporation

http://opencorporates.com/companies/us_wy/2011-000606261

BF Labs Inc.
Company Number 2011-000606261
Status Active
Incorporation Date 2 August 2011 (over 1 year ago)
Company Type Profit Corporation
Jurisdiction Wyoming (US)
Registered Address 5830 E 2nd St Casper, WY 82609 USA United States
Registry Page https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?FilingNum=2011-000606261

http://www.butterflylabs.com/contact/
Address: PO Box 413671
Kansas City, Missouri 64141-3761
United States of America
Telephone: 913-271-6744
(M-F 9-5 CST/CDT) Voicemail: 816 226 6966
Fax: 816 226 6966
e-mail: office@butterflylabs.com
Skype: butterflylabs

tyvm / updating OP

[Micon]

to better gauge the size and amount of pre-orders, I feel this thread is relevant to discussion:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread.html

Replies: 162
Views: 16,506

boy are the boys 'birding this thread hard.  IMO Josh felt backed into a corner after CES 2013.  The people demanded a timeline, so he came up with this post:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html 

With this timeline:

Week of January 13th
Travel to packaging facility for final prep and walkthrough
Confirm travel plans and trip details with lead ASIC engineer for trip to fab

Week of January 20th
Final assembly facility prep
Leave for fab at the end of the week

Week of January 26th
Final chips roll off the line
Grab suitcase, a BMW or a Peugeot and make a break for the airport, Ronin style (You can see Tom about 6 minutes, 20 seconds into the video)
Arrive California at chip packaging plant
KC facility starts assembly process of units to drop PCB into

Week of February 3rd
Chips packaged
Packaged chips sent to assembly house
Assembled PCB is set for final testing and MCU programming
Notify users to start sending their FPGA units or BTC for trade in participants
Bulk assembled PCBs arrive in KC, we start dropping PCBs into waiting units
Boxing/labeling for shipment

Week of February 10th
We implement the 1/3 shipping plan en mass
1/3 of our assembled units will go to new orders in FIFO
1/3 of our assembled units will go to upgrade orders
1/3 will be randomly selected from both groups

We descend upon the Post Office, DHL, UPS and FedEx like a horde of angry locust

And we've already had no-picture substrate floor time, so it appears to me he is in this thread Manti Te'o-ing it up as he goes along.   One man's opinion.

[SLok]

Looking for members that want to post anonymously to this site with any BFL information:

http://joshzerlan.com/

WTF!  Is your little ego hurt that much??

[MooC Tals]

Avalon has just started shipping. I saw that on an other thread I was following. I saw a picture of the asic chip with the avalon logo on it.

BOOO HOOO  HOOO

[LightRider]

You missed one......

where did Josh get the picture of the BFL ASIC 'DIE'.....?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/129-13-jan-13-asic-update.html

Because that is NOT a die picture...... and the controlling infrastructure is missing.......
(josh states it is 'black' because it is very densely routed) that is incorrect.

`

That's a very bold statement.

If this is true then prove it, and you will have all the proof you need that BFL is a scam.

Fine go grab the full size image, so that it does not 'disappear'.

What am I looking at here? Is this the 65nm chip?

My friend, who works for a major chip manufacturer, tells me that this design looks more like flash memory than any processing circuitry due to its density.

[thebaron]

Well, it's just the same logic circuits over and over again, isn't it?

And it's kind of hard to tell anyways without a very high-res image...

[Micon]

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-19.html#post11034

Lets not get into a pissing contest on here about bets and such... we can leave that for Bitcointalk. Kudo's to Avalon for shipping... something. We'll see what is actually received in a few days presumably. If they are going to take several weeks to ship a mere 300 units, only the first few people will ever see a ROI on their units. The rest will be sunk I suspect once the reality of 400w power consumption hits them square in the face. Then summer rolls around and you have to pay to cool that 400w per unit, increasing your operating costs. Good luck with that.

IMO this thread on the BFL forums is :solidgold

Josh is charged with keeping the crowd calm.  BFL has shown a history of being very unprofessional towards their competition, but now to me it seems Josh's denial is so palpable I could make a smoothie out of it.

Here he is somehow found a way to rally the crowd, talking shit about Avalon, the first company (likely) to ship ASIC bitcoin miners.  Without one Avalon device being delivered, pictured, or tested Josh has already damned their customers to high electricity costs.  All while holding the millions.  All while not shipping anything at all.  All on the heels of showing up to CES with very close to nothing.

[thebaron]

"only the first few people will ever see a ROI on their units"

Dafuq? He's gotta be dumb to reveal that (obvious) fact about the business model.

lolololol

[lucif]

Inaba runs out of money

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137923

[hardcore-fs]

Inaba runs out of money

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137923

yep and there has been selected editing of the thread......... so its yet another bitcointalk forum "spin"

[Micon]

no product to ship, but will still spend endlessly on pre-orders that at this point are false advertising.   They plainly advertise a rating for hardware that hasn't been tested and they don't have in possession.  IMO it is irresponsible to host BFL pre-order ads at this point:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137470.msg1472423#msg1472423



Josh's entire post history is riddled with personal insults, seemly randomly thrown around:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8198;sa=showPosts 



If you are playing along at home, remember Josh's Lolz timeline at the the end of this wall of text after his CES didn't quite go as planned:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html

and here in this massive thread (lots and lots of ppl with pre-orders!) Josh has to pop in every few days to pretend like something is in motion:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread.html