Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[LTU_btc]

The next topic for engines will be for the period 2025-2028 and they have 2 options, go full electric but we already have Formula-E or go back to full Gas mode.

And we already know what fans want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFP6Bzlk5Z8

I don't think it's possible that they will switch to full electric engines soon. This technology isn't developped enough to be used in F1. Have you watch Formula E race? They can't even race on proper tracks because these cars is just too slow for it. Length of race is 45 minutes, but often they run out of battery before finnish. Would they have to change battery during pit stop in F1?
 I'm not even talking about terrible sound of electric cars. Formula E cars sounds like loud vacuum cleaner and this sound makes headache after watching race for more than 10 minutes.

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[Koal-84]

But the Car Industry have so many pressure from the politics so no one dare to say we need a larger number of cylinders for the sport and the fans.

The last V12 engine is from 1995 Ferrari 412T2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZnUHC8w2s

But are we sure about it?
Even now with the progressive use of the electrical engine, big companies like Honda are leaving the circus because they have no interest in the F1 engine.

"We have what we need" they said not a long time ago so "we are leaving".

The next topic for engines will be for the period 2025-2028 and they have 2 options, go full electric but we already have Formula-E or go back to full Gas mode.

And we already know what fans want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFP6Bzlk5Z8

I  think Honda sees no advantage in the actually Formula 1 technology, and the very complex energy recovery system means that the development costs are simply too high and no use case for Honda!

Look at IndyCar there are also Honda at Engine manufacture, Formula1 has a to expensive recovery system.

Engine competition era (2012-present)

The current, third-generation IndyCar formula was introduced in 2012 including two new manufacturers marked the return of the IndyCar Series engine manufacturer competition war since 2005 season. The engines are now fuel-efficient DOHC 2.2-liter twin-turbo V6 with four-stroke piston Otto cycle developing an estimated 550–750 hp depending on the level of boost used and no inter-cooling systems. They are limited to 12,000 rpm and weighed up to 248 lb (112 kg). Engines are currently supplied by Chevrolet and Honda.[22] Since the 2012 season, McLaren has supplied its TAG-400i engine control unit. The current engine fuel injector delivery now combines direct and electronic indirect injection which produces roughly 300 bar (4,351 psi) of rail pressure. No fuel flow restriction exists in the IndyCar Series engine configuration. Chevrolet returned to the series in 2012 to provide all-new, Ilmor developed and engineered, V6 twin-turbocharged engines after six-year hiatus while Honda still remain committed to the series also to provide all-new V6 single-turbocharged engines in the same year. Lotus Cars provided an engine developed by Judd in 2012, but left the series in 2013 after lack of interest from teams in running the underdeveloped and uncompetitive Lotus engine.[23] The push-to-pass overtake system was reintroduced during 2012 Honda Indy Toronto round and still being used currently that produced roughly 60 hp (45 kW) with a duration about 6–200 seconds of usage rechargeable (varies track shape).

Chevrolet was the first engine manufacturer to utilize the twin-turbocharged configuration alongside Lotus in 2012 while Honda was utilized the single-turbocharger in 2012–2013. Honda ditched the single-turbocharged after 2013 in favor of twin-turbochargers from 2014 until the present.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndyCar_Series

The next topic for engines will be for the period 2025-2028 and they have 2 options, go full electric but we already have Formula-E or go back to full Gas mode.

And we already know what fans want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFP6Bzlk5Z8

I don't think it's possible that they will switch to full electric engines soon. This technology isn't developped enough to be used in F1. Have you watch Formula E race? They can't even race on proper tracks because these cars is just too slow for it. Length of race is 45 minutes, but often they run out of battery before finnish. Would they have to change battery during pit stop in F1?
 I'm not even talking about terrible sound of electric cars. Formula E cars sounds like loud vacuum cleaner and this sound makes headache after watching race for more than 10 minutes.

And about E Engine at Motorsport, no one will look at his and will pay for that. It's not the future in commercial use and especially not in "motorsport"! Formala-E look at TV is one of the boringst sports at TV!! That I can also play Carrera Bahn with friends in the basement.

[Cnut237]

What makes Hamilton win those titles is that when he doesn't win he is still close to the podiums or gathers the maximum points he can. Bottas lost a significant point opportunity after retiring in this circuit and gave Hamilton a great advantaage.

This is an important point that is overlooked. Hamilton nowadays has a very mature outlook, with one eye always on the championship standings. Whilst he does complain in adversity as we sometimes hear in-race, he doesn't let it affect his driving. This is in contrast to the Hamilton of a few years back when he was fighting Rosberg, and a bad team call or a bit of bad luck would have him sulking and could affect him for the full race weekend. Nowadays he has eradicated that weakness, and is just relentless.

Quick point on the Bottas retirement - his mistake actually cost him slightly more than the retirement (mistake: from +7 to -10 to Ham [Bottas 1st, Ham 2nd -> Ham 1st, Bottas 3rd]= -17 swing; retirement: another -15 on top of the -17).

[Luzin]

Yes the raining weather is not really good for Yamaha, at least it looks like it. Rossi is normally a good raining driver, but 3 falls in a row is a bit strange with him, does he currently want too much? Congratulation to Petrucci perfect race from him.

I didn't understand what he was doing until he fell 3 times. Is this the age factor? If so, what about the 2021 season he will still follow MotoGP. It cannot be denied, Rossi is indeed an attraction to be followed. Regarding achievement, he must accept that he will be replaced by another young racer.

[Koal-84]

Yes the raining weather is not really good for Yamaha, at least it looks like it. Rossi is normally a good raining driver, but 3 falls in a row is a bit strange with him, does he currently want too much? Congratulation to Petrucci perfect race from him.

I didn't understand what he was doing until he fell 3 times. Is this the age factor? If so, what about the 2021 season he will still follow MotoGP. It cannot be denied, Rossi is indeed an attraction to be followed. Regarding achievement, he must accept that he will be replaced by another young racer.

MotoGP is always at the limit and if you want to be at the front you often go over it, don't think that a fall in the first lap has to do with age, but with concentration. He has already voluntarily made room for a younger driver in the factory team, and it is easily possible that he will be competitive again in the year 2021. 3 failures in a row is rather unusual for Rossi who has followed the last 10 years MotoGP (500ccm). But Vinales is also making some big mistakes this year, so the also drive at the limit, Yamaha have not enough speed so the must go more risk in the corners and at the brake.

[coinlocket$]

I don't think it's possible that they will switch to full electric engines soon. This technology isn't developped enough to be used in F1. Have you watch Formula E race? They can't even race on proper tracks because these cars is just too slow for it. Length of race is 45 minutes, but often they run out of battery before finnish. Would they have to change battery during pit stop in F1?
 I'm not even talking about terrible sound of electric cars. Formula E cars sounds like loud vacuum cleaner and this sound makes headache after watching race for more than 10 minutes.

Yes, and I know it but the reason used by Honda is "we already found what we are looking for our future electric cars in the mainstream" so the evolution seems to be already dead.

Even if they are going in full-electric mode teams are not interested in joining the race so maybe they need to go in the opposite direction, like American races where they race without thinking about the evolution of the mainstream.

[AakZaki]

The last news I heard about Marquez, he will still be absent from the Aragon Grand Prix session. The Aragon Grand Prix takes place this week on the 18th. Anyone know how he is? or when will he recover and be in the race again? It seems that not many media have written about the progress of the injury. If he remains absent, then if his points are counted with the highest points he will be displaced from this year's world champion candidate. It happened because it was certain that even if you participated in the remaining races and always won, it was not enough to chase the highest point.

[Koal-84]

The last news I heard about Marquez, he will still be absent from the Aragon Grand Prix session. The Aragon Grand Prix takes place this week on the 18th. Anyone know how he is? or when will he recover and be in the race again? It seems that not many media have written about the progress of the injury. If he remains absent, then if his points are counted with the highest points he will be displaced from this year's world champion candidate. It happened because it was certain that even if you participated in the remaining races and always won, it was not enough to chase the highest point.

I read the same that Stefan Bradl will drive one more race and Mark Márquez must wait maybe also the second race at Aragon. But i only find a German article about this, at this article the news is official Form Honda.

https://www.motorsport-total.com/motogp/news/marc-marquez-comeback-verschiebt-sich-weiter-stefan-bradl-faehrt-auch-in-aragon-20101304

[-CryptoViking-]

Yes, and I know it but the reason used by Honda is "we already found what we are looking for our future electric cars in the mainstream" so the evolution seems to be already dead.

Even if they are going in full-electric mode teams are not interested in joining the race so maybe they need to go in the opposite direction, like American races where they race without thinking about the evolution of the mainstream.

I think we will eventually make a full circle and come back to the old ways, same like it happens with fashion and everything else. This type of racing is not attractive enough, there should also be more mechanical grip, harder to overtake and such. I would love for refueling to come back too, but I don't think that I will get to see that.

[coinlocket$]

I think we will eventually make a full circle and come back to the old ways, same like it happens with fashion and everything else. This type of racing is not attractive enough, there should also be more mechanical grip, harder to overtake and such. I would love for refueling to come back too, but I don't think that I will get to see that.

The solution is not easy, even if they go back with no power unit why new teams like BMW, AUDI, LAMBO and more should join in F1? They will be too behind in development.

Those teams can join F1 only if every team will have stock parts but in that case, Ferrari and Mercedes will probably leave and found a new circus.
Ferrari and Mercedes will never run with another team engine.

About the refueling, I don't think it will never happen again, too many risks. A good solution is to use "less good tires" to create more pit stops but Pirelli tried to do so and team complained about it since more stops=more risks

[aesma]

Like he did with McLaren in 2008? And almost in 2007 in his debut season. So he's already won with two teams.

Imho Hamilton will never be the best of all times.
Schumacher was better IMHO, even if Hamilton will end with more titles.

I'm starting to think Hamilton is better. Looking back on Schumacher's titles, he did get one of them by cheating... 1994 Damon Hill would have been world champion if Schumacher hadn't deliberately rammed him off the track. So really it should be 6 titles. 1997 he tried the same thing on Villeneuve, but it backfired and Schumacher was disqualified from the entire championship for that season. He had similar outrageous cheating attempts, like when he stopped on track in qualifying to stop championship rival Alonso beating him to pole. And when he tried to crash into championship rival (and reigning world champion) Hakkinen in 2000.
Hamilton sometimes races close to the edge, but he has never outright cheated in the way Schumacher did - Schumacher was a hugely talented driver, but the cheating particularly for the 1994 title, can't be ignored.

Not exactly even if You are partially right.
In my opinion, we cannot consider them two different stables, I try to explain myself.
At the time, the team was the Mclaren-Mercedes, which later separated into two teams, Mclaren and Mercedes.
The strong part was clearly the Mercedes, in fact, the Mclaren since 2009 is quite a pity.

I consider the current Mercedes team to be the strong part of that first part and I was talking about a real change like Shumi did and Alonso or Vettel tried to do.

Mercedes bought Brawn GP, which was the Honda team. The Brawn GP was a Honda car with a Mercedes engine and a cool invention by Ross Brawn, the double diffuser. The car evolved from there, with for example for years problems with the rear tires overheating, which still sometimes happens to the current car. To me there is absolutely no relation to McLaren, at all.

[-CryptoViking-]

The solution is not easy, even if they go back with no power unit why new teams like BMW, AUDI, LAMBO and more should join in F1? They will be too behind in development.

Those teams can join F1 only if every team will have stock parts but in that case, Ferrari and Mercedes will probably leave and found a new circus.
Ferrari and Mercedes will never run with another team engine.

About the refueling, I don't think it will never happen again, too many risks. A good solution is to use "less good tires" to create more pit stops but Pirelli tried to do so and team complained about it since more stops=more risks

Less good tires are terrible solution and no real racer will ever say different. Point of Formula 1 is to see best racing drivers in the world drive fastest and best racing cars in the world, but not just drive them. The key is to drive them on the limit.

With tires less good as you say we will never again watch cars and drivers on the limit and finding that limit. For me that is the core of F1. Everything else is politics and bullshit for the show which we are experiencing for the last decade or so.

[Koal-84]

That's it, not the driver, car or fuel is the limit at time all limits make the tires and no many options for the driver and Team strategic...

I would prefer a smaller fuel tank so all teams must make 2 stops and better tires with more options for drive fast lap rounds, with the new technic i don't think the refueling is dangerous. And no fuel flow regulation, we are in motorsport and not who saves the best fuel and tires.

[dothebeats]

The solution is not easy, even if they go back with no power unit why new teams like BMW, AUDI, LAMBO and more should join in F1? They will be too behind in development.

Those teams can join F1 only if every team will have stock parts but in that case, Ferrari and Mercedes will probably leave and found a new circus.
Ferrari and Mercedes will never run with another team engine.

Less good tires are terrible solution and no real racer will ever say different. Point of Formula 1 is to see best racing drivers in the world drive fastest and best racing cars in the world, but not just drive them. The key is to drive them on the limit.

With tires less good as you say we will never again watch cars and drivers on the limit and finding that limit. For me that is the core of F1. Everything else is politics and bullshit for the show which we are experiencing for the last decade or so.

Well F1 has been through some shit show for the last decade that's right. And we, as the fans of the sport, are the ones mildly suffering as it's really shitty to see that the cars aren't really pushed to their limits unlike the heydays of F1 in the 80s to 90s. A lot of the regulations imposed by the FIA on the sport slowly killed the thrill of it. I believe that we can still see the best of these beasts of cars AND still abiding by the rules and safety regulations. However some people within the management--and also some within the teams--didn't have the balls to ask for more power for the cars but instead ask to nerf some of the best cars' best assets in order to play in a level playing field.

Imagine ingenious engineering techniques being added again to some of these cars like in the 80s and 90s and actually having some safety measures being observed. This could have been the best era for F1 with all the tech and all the new stuff we have for automobiles but here we are, teams constantly shouting to nerf other team's cars just because theirs weren't good enough.

About the refueling, I don't think it will never happen again, too many risks. A good solution is to use "less good tires" to create more pit stops but Pirelli tried to do so and team complained about it since more stops=more risks

If pit stops are designed to not expose the fuel tanks to heat or any other factors that could cause a fire, then refueling can still be possible. Add to that the car's gas tank being exposed already to intense heat from driving at insane speeds. There are a lot of factors accompanied to refueling that the FIA deemed it unsafe--or they are just not really wanting to spare some more money into development of such tech, both the teams and the management.

[coinlocket$]

Less good tires are terrible solution and no real racer will ever say different. Point of Formula 1 is to see best racing drivers in the world drive fastest and best racing cars in the world, but not just drive them. The key is to drive them on the limit.

With tires less good as you say we will never again watch cars and drivers on the limit and finding that limit. For me that is the core of F1. Everything else is politics and bullshit for the show which we are experiencing for the last decade or so.

Well in a scenario where one team is stronger and every teams does 4 pits, the faster team should win but the entraitaiment grows.
F1 need entraitaiment to grow and bring more sponsor, with more sponsor more money will go in the game.

With more money in the game maybe and hopefull the other team will join the game.

A random team like BWM atm has no interest to spend 150m/y for no reason.

[Koal-84]

Next Bad news for #46 after three falls the last 3 Rades, Roosis Covid19 test are positive...

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-miss-aragon-gp-positive-covid-19-test/4892343

So he will miss one or maybe all two Aragon GP races. But how reliable are all these teats when you have to test so often?

[coinlocket$]

Next Bad news for #46 after three falls the last 3 Rades, Roosis Covid19 test are positive...

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-miss-aragon-gp-positive-covid-19-test/4892343

So he will miss one or maybe all two Aragon GP races. But how reliable are all these teats when you have to test so often?

I was writing the same thing about Rossi, here is his post in English



Source on his twitter: https://twitter.com/ValeYellow46/status/1316783079755862017/photo/2

I think he will skip atleast 3 gps.

Fun side note, this can be the Moto GP with the Champion with the less amount of point ever.

[dre1982]

Next Bad news for #46 after three falls the last 3 Rades, Roosis Covid19 test are positive...

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-miss-aragon-gp-positive-covid-19-test/4892343

So he will miss one or maybe all two Aragon GP races. But how reliable are all these teats when you have to test so often?

I think when the test that often it should be reliable.

You see a lot of sporters now getting Corona, also a lot of footballers. I think testen that often is the only way to keep it going. If they stop testing, the whole field will get it and then you can stop the matches.

[swogerino]

Yes, and I know it but the reason used by Honda is "we already found what we are looking for our future electric cars in the mainstream" so the evolution seems to be already dead.

Even if they are going in full-electric mode teams are not interested in joining the race so maybe they need to go in the opposite direction, like American races where they race without thinking about the evolution of the mainstream.

I think we will eventually make a full circle and come back to the old ways, same like it happens with fashion and everything else. This type of racing is not attractive enough, there should also be more mechanical grip, harder to overtake and such. I would love for refueling to come back too, but I don't think that I will get to see that.

You reminded me of the old days where McLaren used to have the biggest fuel tank and where races were decided from many factors beside the driver skills.I think that should be very good for us to change back to that kind of racing as emotions will be bigger and guaranteed during a F1 season,a thing which is not guaranteed during this and upcoming seasons of F1.

[Juggy777]

Next Bad news for #46 after three falls the last 3 Rades, Roosis Covid19 test are positive...

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-miss-aragon-gp-positive-covid-19-test/4892343

So he will miss one or maybe all two Aragon GP races. But how reliable are all these teats when you have to test so often?

I was writing the same thing about Rossi, here is his post in English



Source on his twitter: https://twitter.com/ValeYellow46/status/1316783079755862017/photo/2

I think he will skip atleast 3 gps.

Fun side note, this can be the Moto GP with the Champion with the less amount of point ever.

Next Bad news for #46 after three falls the last 3 Rades, Roosis Covid19 test are positive...

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-miss-aragon-gp-positive-covid-19-test/4892343

So he will miss one or maybe all two Aragon GP races. But how reliable are all these teats when you have to test so often?

I think when the test that often it should be reliable.

You see a lot of sporters now getting Corona, also a lot of footballers. I think testen that often is the only way to keep it going. If they stop testing, the whole field will get it and then you can stop the matches.

@coinlocket$ it’s really sad to see that a sports person who’s followed all the covid rules, yet got infected by covid. Furthermore like it or not these tests are reliable, because no sporting event would like to have corona cases on record as it’s an unnecessary distraction for them, hence I feel that these test results can be trusted.