Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[Cnut237]

I can see that Bottas is so strong in the last races that we have seen.
He has made me believe that he is going to be able to get the championship in the end if he continues like that.

He is quite strong over one lap in qualifying, his problem is that he is no match for Hamilton over the course of a whole race.
But he starts on pole, so he has everything in his favour. The difference is, if Hamilton gets into the first corner in the lead, he's probably going to win, whereas if Bottas gets into the first corner in the lead, you'd still think Hamilton has a decent chance of overtaking him.

I think it's 50/50 between the two Mercedes drivers this time. We're unlikely to see rain livening things up; the latest forecast shows around 10% chance of rain. But if it does rain, Hamilton would certainly be the favourite.

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[AakZaki]

My guess is not wrong, today's race was dominated by powerful bikes on a straight track. Just look at positions 1 to 8 there is no Yamaha😥. Then congratulations to Danilo Pettrucci who was the winner followed by Alex Marquez and Espargaro. Too bad Rossi fell on the first lap and couldn't continue racing, I actually wanted him to get on the podium.

[coinlocket$]

Another boring GP, Hamilton Can overtake everyone expects Verstappen Today, there is too much difference 

Another fail for Bottas.

[swogerino]

Another boring GP, Hamilton Can overtake everyone expects Verstappen Today, there is too much difference 

Another fail for Bottas.

After one of the most boring races of this season today Hamilton equalized the record of Michael Schumacher with 91 wins.I think this record will be broken soon enough and Hamilton will be crowned the best driver of all times.

Even Verstappen after the first phase of the race couldn’t do much against Hamilton.

[boltz]

For me Lewis is the 2nd all time goat after Senna and this race proved me once again he is from another league when it comes to racing. I think he is way better than Schumacher because Schumi was not so fair play when it came to racing or giving space and we can all remember some Coulthard vs Schumi or the famous Schumi vs Villeneuve or even Schumi Vs Barichello and Schumi vs Hakkinen. So in my opinion Lewis is way better than Schumacher and very close to Senna. ( JUST MY OPINION , PLEASE RESPECT IT ) <3. We all love F1 , this is what matters the most.

[coinlocket$]

Another boring GP, Hamilton Can overtake everyone expects Verstappen Today, there is too much difference 

Another fail for Bottas.

After one of the most boring races of this season today Hamilton equalized the record of Michael Schumacher with 91 wins.I think this record will be broken soon enough and Hamilton will be crowned the best driver of all times.

Even Verstappen after the first phase of the race couldn’t do much against Hamilton.

Imho Hamilton will never be the best of all times.
Schumacher was better IMHO, even if Hamilton will end with more titles, (victories are irrelevant, they run 6-8 more GP/year now so is easier).

Hamilton to be on the same level as Schumacher needs to change team and win with 2 teams as Shumi did.

[Cnut237]

Hamilton to be on the same level as Schumacher needs to change team and win with 2 teams as Shumi did.

Like he did with McLaren in 2008? And almost in 2007 in his debut season. So he's already won with two teams.

Imho Hamilton will never be the best of all times.
Schumacher was better IMHO, even if Hamilton will end with more titles.

I'm starting to think Hamilton is better. Looking back on Schumacher's titles, he did get one of them by cheating... 1994 Damon Hill would have been world champion if Schumacher hadn't deliberately rammed him off the track. So really it should be 6 titles. 1997 he tried the same thing on Villeneuve, but it backfired and Schumacher was disqualified from the entire championship for that season. He had similar outrageous cheating attempts, like when he stopped on track in qualifying to stop championship rival Alonso beating him to pole. And when he tried to crash into championship rival (and reigning world champion) Hakkinen in 2000.
Hamilton sometimes races close to the edge, but he has never outright cheated in the way Schumacher did - Schumacher was a hugely talented driver, but the cheating particularly for the 1994 title, can't be ignored.

[LTU_btc]

Can't say that race was very boring. Yeah, there was no questions about winner or 2nd place, but rest was quite interesting. I'm very happy for my favorite driver Ricciardo who finally got podium, he really deserved it. It's first Renault podium since 2011. Interesting what tatoo Ricciardo will pick for Cyril Abiteboul
And what a crazy weekend for Hulkenberg. On Saturday morning he probably had no idea that he will have to race again and today he managed to reach P8 starting from P20.

Imho Hamilton will never be the best of all times.
Schumacher was better IMHO, even if Hamilton will end with more titles, (victories are irrelevant, they run 6-8 more GP/year now so is easier).

Well, probably there will be no consensus between people who is GOAT. For some people it's Schumacher, for others Hamilton or Senna. And everyone has argument for it. For me it's Schumacher, despite that I never liked him. But I must admit that Hamilton is amazing driver and he get too much hate. Maybe people just don't like his dominance.

I'm starting to think Hamilton is better. Looking back on Schumacher's titles, he did get one of them by cheating... 1994 Damon Hill would have been world champion if Schumacher hadn't deliberately rammed him off the track. So really it should be 6 titles. 1997 he tried the same thing on Villeneuve, but it backfired and Schumacher was disqualified from the entire championship for that season. He had similar outrageous cheating attempts, like when he stopped on track in qualifying to stop championship rival Alonso beating him to pole. And when he tried to crash into championship rival (and reigning world champion) Hakkinen in 2000.
Hamilton sometimes races close to the edge, but he has never outright cheated in the way Schumacher did - Schumacher was a hugely talented driver, but the cheating particularly for the 1994 title, can't be ignored.

Very good point! Schumacher was really dirty driver and it's one of reasons why I didn't liked him. For me this video shows best what kind of driver he was - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AzpYilkKrA
Unfortunately, I'm too young and I haven't saw Senna racing. For me, it wouldn't be correct to compare him with Lewis and Schumacher just from archive races and documentary.

[coinlocket$]

Like he did with McLaren in 2008? And almost in 2007 in his debut season. So he's already won with two teams.

Imho Hamilton will never be the best of all times.
Schumacher was better IMHO, even if Hamilton will end with more titles.

I'm starting to think Hamilton is better. Looking back on Schumacher's titles, he did get one of them by cheating... 1994 Damon Hill would have been world champion if Schumacher hadn't deliberately rammed him off the track. So really it should be 6 titles. 1997 he tried the same thing on Villeneuve, but it backfired and Schumacher was disqualified from the entire championship for that season. He had similar outrageous cheating attempts, like when he stopped on track in qualifying to stop championship rival Alonso beating him to pole. And when he tried to crash into championship rival (and reigning world champion) Hakkinen in 2000.
Hamilton sometimes races close to the edge, but he has never outright cheated in the way Schumacher did - Schumacher was a hugely talented driver, but the cheating particularly for the 1994 title, can't be ignored.

Not exactly even if You are partially right.
In my opinion, we cannot consider them two different stables, I try to explain myself.
At the time, the team was the Mclaren-Mercedes, which later separated into two teams, Mclaren and Mercedes.
The strong part was clearly the Mercedes, in fact, the Mclaren since 2009 is quite a pity.

I consider the current Mercedes team to be the strong part of that first part and I was talking about a real change like Shumi did and Alonso or Vettel tried to do.

Moreover, if we want to be honest, in 2007 and 2008 the Mclaren Mercedes won by cheating.

Does SpyStory remind you of anything?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Formula_One_espionage_controversy

[-CryptoViking-]

I won't waste time commenting on GOATs and such, since I consider it pointless and Schumi is GOAT for me, Senna 2nd I watched them both at their respective time.

Race was a bit sluggish, but we saw a lot of nice things, Ricci taking a podium for the Renault in his leaving year, Hulk doing great job and taking points, same as Grosjean taking his first points this season.Leclerc again did an awesome job at getting the best possible out of the Ferrari.

Bottas DNF has basicaly concluded this years title fight and we can already congratulate Hamilton on his 7th title.

[coinlocket$]

Really.
I am very happy for Riccardo I like him even if I hate the fact of drinking from the shoe. It triggers me a lot.

The funniest part of Riccardo's podium has yet to come.
Some time ago the sporting director of the team made a bet that if Ricciardo got a podium before leaving the team (he will leave at the end of this season at McLaren instead of Sainz) the director had to paint a tattoo chosen by Riccardo ...

We all know how extroverted Riccardo is and I'm curious to see what he will choose  probably something embarrassing.

[Cnut237]

At the time, the team was the Mclaren-Mercedes, which later separated into two teams, Mclaren and Mercedes.

I'm giving you a merit for this part, because of course you are correct, and I was wrong to consider it two properly distinct teams. However there should be some qualification here. The current "Mercedes" team is technically the re-badged Brawn team... and Mercedes did stay with McLaren until 2014, after Hamilton had left. We have to remember at the time it was considered by many to be a huge gamble from Hamilton to join what was - at the time - an uncompetitive Mercedes team.

Moreover, if we want to be honest, in 2007 and 2008 the Mclaren Mercedes won by cheating.

2007 with spygate, yes... but not really 2008, that was after the controversy and McLaren had to submit their car for rigorous inspection prior to the season starting to ensure there were no illegally copied parts. Hamilton's title was 2008. But that's irrelevant anyway, as this is about the quality of the car rather than the driver cheating. Schumacher was one of the all-time greats, but he had a history of winning by cheating when necessary... a part of the ruthlessness that made him a winner. His win-at-all-costs mentality helped guide him to those seven titles, but 1994 in particular should have seen him disqualified. He has seven titles, but at least one is tarnished, as is his legacy through incidents like the one posted above by LTU_btc, where his move on (former team-mate) Barrichello was not far from attempted murder.

Hamilton and Schumacher are both great drivers, but for me Hamilton edges it as the greatest because he drives clean. Likely this time next year he'll be on the verge of an eighth title.

[Koal-84]

My guess is not wrong, today's race was dominated by powerful bikes on a straight track. Just look at positions 1 to 8 there is no Yamaha😥. Then congratulations to Danilo Pettrucci who was the winner followed by Alex Marquez and Espargaro. Too bad Rossi fell on the first lap and couldn't continue racing, I actually wanted him to get on the podium.

Yes the raining weather is not really good for Yamaha, at least it looks like it. Rossi is normally a good raining driver, but 3 falls in a row is a bit strange with him, does he currently want too much? Congratulation to Petrucci perfect race from him.

[Cnut237]

A quick note on the points loss situation for Bottas in the F1 race - he was unlucky with the mechanical failure, but he actually lost more points to Hamilton through his own error in the race than he did through his DNF.

Ignoring fastest lap for simplicity:

• From starting positions, Bottas 25 points, Hamilton 18 points... so +7 to Bottas;
• Bottas' error under Hamilton pressure put Hamilton into the lead (25pts) and dropped Bottas to 3rd (15pts)... so -10 to Bottas, a 17 point loss from starting positions;
• Bottas' mechanical failure then lost him those 15pts, so an additional -15 on top of the -17 he lost through his error

A 69 point lead now with 6 races remaining - Hamilton looks untouchable.

[tokeweed]

^  Yup...  He's been untouchable for 6 years straight now thanks to that Merc V6 Turbo.  

I wonder if Ross Brawn has something in the works to bring back the aspirated engines.  You guys see Schumacher's son drive his dad's F1 car with the V12?  Listen to dat saaaaooowwnd!  Just bring it back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XuHu6F9C4M

[-CryptoViking-]

^  Yup...  He's been untouchable for 6 years straight now thanks to that Merc V6 Turbo.  

I wonder if Ross Brawn has something in the works to bring back the aspirated engines.  You guys see Schumacher's son drive his dad's F1 car with the V12?  Listen to dat saaaaooowwnd!  Just bring it back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XuHu6F9C4M

Yeah, the sound is the thing that is missing today and a lot of other things which would allow us to discern a great driver from a good driver. More wrestling with the car.

It is great to see Mick around in F1 paddock, he will be driving next year in Alfa, after he wins the GP2 title this year. I am watching closely and he is not Michael for sure, but if he could be half of that I would be more then happy.

To be more precise, I consider him Mick Schumacher and try to avoid comparing him with his dad as much as possible, although that is a bit hard to avoid. I try to look at him as a great young prospect, with much more pressure on his back then other young drivers, so I'm impressed so far with his dedication and approach.

[swogerino]

^  Yup...  He's been untouchable for 6 years straight now thanks to that Merc V6 Turbo.  

I wonder if Ross Brawn has something in the works to bring back the aspirated engines.  You guys see Schumacher's son drive his dad's F1 car with the V12?  Listen to dat saaaaooowwnd!  Just bring it back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XuHu6F9C4M

I think greatly is because of the engine as it is the best out there since 2014 and up to now.However we cannot deny that Hamilton is a far more agressive driver than Schumacher was at his time and we saw yesterday he was eager to get the win although he was lucky.Since McLaren days Hamilton has had a lot of battles against Vettel,Massa and Rosberg and he has beaten them all,so a big well done to him and from now on his records will be the one to beat.

I am not a Mercedes nor Hamilton fan by the way.

[Koal-84]

^  Yup...  He's been untouchable for 6 years straight now thanks to that Merc V6 Turbo.  

I wonder if Ross Brawn has something in the works to bring back the aspirated engines.  You guys see Schumacher's son drive his dad's F1 car with the V12?  Listen to dat saaaaooowwnd!  Just bring it back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XuHu6F9C4M

Yes that's a really sound, but the F2004 is a V10 sound  , it's so sorry for the downsize in Motorsport   . But the Car Industry have so many pressure from the politics so no one dare to say we need a larger number of cylinders for the sport and the fans.

The last V12 engine is from 1995 Ferrari 412T2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZnUHC8w2s

[Naida_BR]

A 69 point lead now with 6 races remaining - Hamilton looks untouchable.

Hamilton is not going to lose this championship...
Only Bottas can make him lose it but he is far from the top now especially after Nurburgring circuit...
What makes Hamilton win those titles is that when he doesn't win he is still close to the podiums or gathers the maximum points he can. Bottas lost a significant point opportunity after retiring in this circuit and gave Hamilton a great advantaage.

[coinlocket$]

But the Car Industry have so many pressure from the politics so no one dare to say we need a larger number of cylinders for the sport and the fans.

The last V12 engine is from 1995 Ferrari 412T2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZnUHC8w2s

But are we sure about it?
Even now with the progressive use of the electrical engine, big companies like Honda are leaving the circus because they have no interest in the F1 engine.

"We have what we need" they said not a long time ago so "we are leaving".

The next topic for engines will be for the period 2025-2028 and they have 2 options, go full electric but we already have Formula-E or go back to full Gas mode.

And we already know what fans want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFP6Bzlk5Z8