Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[Koal-84]

Much different?

He is running for 2 years with a doped car.
They had spent around 5-10 million over the cap, keep in mind the engineering work in 1 car is around 4-5 million here.

We have rules and they are doing what they want every race.

And yes is doping, mechanical doping.

For the 2021 season, all have now received their compliance certificates except RedBull, Aston Martin and Williams. Although Williams submitted late, Aston Martin had a procedural breach and RedBull had a procedural breach and exceeded the cost cap.

I'm curious to see what kind of penalties there will be, RedBull is supposed to have stayed below the 5% limit, we'll see, but I don't think there will be much apart from fines?

https://de.motorsport.com/f1/news/offiziell-red-bull-und-aston-martin-mit-verstoss-gegen-budgetgrenze-22101009/10382794/

In the first half of the season, Ferrari was definitely the stronger car, but they lost that through their own mistakes.

[emrecemsan]

It doesn't seem like Red Bull will get a serious penalty for exceeding the budget given to them. FIA even stated that Red Bull have exceeded it by a small difference. The meaning of this should be that Red Bull will get a small penalty for this and they will get away with that easily. It wouldn't make me surprised after watching this season so far.

Especially the unbelievable mistakes in the last race have convinced me more about nothing has changed about FIA now. They just give hope some time but fail people very quickly. FIA shouldn't do this if they want this sport to be more watchable for people. Maybe not most people would lose their interest in the sport easily but the big fans would be disappointed very much.

[FanEagle]

It is just a few million dollars, and yes a few million dollars could mean a lot more when it comes to car development, but also we need to remember teams like Red Bull are spending significantly more to driver salaries as well.

If we start to omit that then it would be a lot better. On top of that we are spending millions of dollars more when you have a great team on sponsors, because you have to take care of a lot more bigger names, and you earn a lot more but you are still allowed to spend the same amount. Considering teams reached 400+ million dollars at some point before the cap, this was bound to happen and I feel like it's not going to be anything big deal.

[Davian144]

Jonathan Rea is still the rider with the highest points record in WSBK for the top 10 riders who have had the most points in a season. In 2019 Jonathan Rea managed to collect 663 points in 13 race series with a 3 race format in one series. And Jonathan Rea also managed to become the WSBK world champion that year so that Jonathan Rea was able to collect WSBK world champions for 6 times in a row from 2015 to 2020.
_{Source: kompas.com & infoworldsbk}

[el kaka22]

It is now known that Red Bull went overboard, that’s no secret anymore, but one thing is certain that it’s not guaranteed that they will lose a championship or anything. There is a high chance it's either money fine, or wind tunnel tokens taken away type of deal.

Because, money means they are going to lose some of the money they have to spend, and that means they won't be improving as well as they otherwise would. And if not that, then they could take away their development tokens, which means they won't be able to improve that way neither. If the award for breaking the rule was improving better, then the punishment should be relevant to not improving equal amount.

[blue Snow]

Jonathan Rea is still the rider with the highest points record in WSBK for the top 10 riders who have had the most points in a season. In 2019 Jonathan Rea managed to collect 663 points in 13 race series with a 3 race format in one series. And Jonathan Rea also managed to become the WSBK world champion that year so that Jonathan Rea was able to collect WSBK world champions for 6 times in a row from 2015 to 2020.
_{Source: kompas.com & infoworldsbk}

I don't really watch WSBK, just sometimes watch the replay on television. I heard Jonathan Rea lost in Portimao, He finish 3rd after Alvaro Bautista and Toprak Razgatlioglu. So my assumption is look hard to him to race Alvaro Bautista with 3 races remaining when only having 83 different points left. Maybe Kawasaki must listen to his complaint about improved engine power, or is there any possibility he move to another bike?

[coinlocket$]

So it seems official now that RBR is using a "doped" car.

They used more money over the salary cap, the penalty is still under discussion.


It will never happen but they should remove the title for 2021 and this year.

[swogerino]

So it seems official now that RBR is using a "doped" car.

They used more money over the salary cap, the penalty is still under discussion.


It will never happen but they should remove the title for 2021 and this year.

I highly doubt that the title of this year will ever be removed while I give a small percentage that this may happen for the title of 2021.While this discussion is happening though is not the Redbull fault that other teams are not trying hard enough to compete with them.

Let's call this a staging season where the "interns" meaning all teams have learned how to deal with the new regulations and to try hard to achieve something beautiful for the 2023 season,something beautiful would be at least 3-4 teams fighting to win a race in every race we will see.I know all the teams are already working on such purpose so I can't wait for the 2023 season to start.

[Zackgeno96]

How will Mercedes actually handle things for next season? Perhaps it is an advantage for Mercedes that Verstappen has become champion so easily, then they seriously know that there is a lot of work to be done. Frustrating for Hamilton that he has not even won a race this season. Hamilton will still remain loyal to Mercedes, it seems impossible that he will drive for another team after a failed season. But then things will have to do differently at Mercedes. How come the gap with Red Bull and also Ferrari has become so big? Have they had so many problems with the new regulations?

[emrecemsan]

It is like Red Bull's turn to have a strong relationship with FIA and take advantage of this now. It was the same for Mercedes before and now things have changed after Red Bull have become the number one team in F1.

I really am frustrated with FIA's actions in the recent years. They still can't act independently. We are seeing so-called changes in FIA but this doesn't change anything about the management. We had the same experience again this season. They screwed things up in another crucial race for the championship. Teams are protesting this but they are also desperate because of not having the control in the end. I just hope to see a cleaner season than this next time. But after seeing this for two seasons I can't say that I believe in FIA much.

[alegotardo]

The FIA has been putting on a horrible performance these past few days, it is unfortunate to see that F1, a sport so loved by many people, is being destroyed by the incompetence of this disastrous organisation.
If the criticism of the FIA was already extremely justifiable before, the situation became almost untenable in a matter of days, with the revelation of the hole in the spending ceiling by Red Bull and, of course, the disastrous Japanese GP, with confusion in the title announcement. of Max Verstappen and even flirt with tragedy with inexplicable tractor entry onto the track.
Worst of all is that the FIA continues to think that everything is normal. How long will this be!?

[Davian144]

I don't really watch WSBK, just sometimes watch the replay on television. I heard Jonathan Rea lost in Portimao, He finish 3rd after Alvaro Bautista and Toprak Razgatlioglu. So my assumption is look hard to him to race Alvaro Bautista with 3 races remaining when only having 83 different points left. Maybe Kawasaki must listen to his complaint about improved engine power, or is there any possibility he move to another bike?

All riders are always bound by their respective contracts within the manufacturer, so they can't just move if the contract period hasn't expired with a certain manufacturer.
And in WSBK, in each race there are three races that must be passed by the riders with a duration of two days, which since Saturday there has been Race1 and Sundays begin with SP Race (Sprint Race) and Race2.

So this is what still gives Jonathan Rea and Toprak an opportunity because in the remaining 3 series there are still 186 points that can still be contested by all WSBK riders.
Because for Race1 and Race2 it will get full points for the first winner (25 points), while for the SP Race which only runs 10 laps or less will get 12 points for the first winner, so each series there are 62 points that can be obtained by the rider who won first. The following is the mechanism for calculating points on WSBK: blackxperience.com

[püsür]

Verstappen already earned this title very much so he finished the job in Suzuka while there were four more races left in the season. Maybe it was a debatable race but we have nothing to do about this I'm afraid. FIA is the same FIA. After replacing Michael Masi I was hopeful about FIA to get a more reliable foundation. However they are still messing things up and drawing all the attention to themselves. It shouldn't be too difficult to manage a race properly.

Verstappen is just unlucky to have his titles in this kind of interesting situations due to FIA. But he isn't responsible for any of this in the end so he should be comfortable anyway.

I hope that Ferrari make a big improvement for next season and make us watch a real competition. They were promising at the beginning of the season but now they are a huge disappointment.

He is the most talented name among active pilots, who is only 25 years old but he is much more matured than his age. Moreover, he wasn't even a bit mature until 2 years ago. Currently, he is reckless but passionate and drives flawlessly. An incredible man. One of the biggest factors in this is that he clashed with a giant who became world champion 7 times last year..

I'm a person who thinks that max's pure piloting skills are superior to everyone else with Fernando. The multi championships of lewis were just like this year's championship of verstappen. The car was always important in formula1. It was important 50 years ago and it will be important 50 years from now. Tired of hearing the argument that attributes his success only to the car.

When his career is over, if he doesn't spend many years in a non-competitive car like Alonso, he will become a champion many times. It will go down in f1 history as an icon.

[coinlocket$]

He is the most talented name among active pilots, who is only 25 years old but he is much more matured than his age. Moreover, he wasn't even a bit mature until 2 years ago. Currently, he is reckless but passionate and drives flawlessly. An incredible man. One of the biggest factors in this is that he clashed with a giant who became world champion 7 times last year..

I'm a person who thinks that max's pure piloting skills are superior to everyone else with Fernando. The multi championships of lewis were just like this year's championship of verstappen. The car was always important in formula1. It was important 50 years ago and it will be important 50 years from now. Tired of hearing the argument that attributes his success only to the car.

When his career is over, if he doesn't spend many years in a non-competitive car like Alonso, he will become a champion many times. It will go down in f1 history as an icon.

We can't be sure.

He is one of the strongest for sure, but I wanna see Charles or Lewis with the same car make the call 1st.
For sure he has more experience than Leclerc, he is on f1 already for 7 years now even though he is still very young.

I think Charles is better than Max on qualifying, for the race he has not have the experience.

[Distraction]

I believe that Leclerc has a really huge potential to perform much better than this. It's just Ferrari screwing things up most of the time. I'm indicating it as "mostly" because Leclerc also makes some mistakes from time to time. He is admitting his mistakes when he does also which is a really professional move by him. But Ferrari should be able to give him a proper car next season.

They had big hopes at the beginning because they had the fastest car on the grid. Red Bull were struggling with big problems like durability. Verstappen and Perez both had bad days then. However Red Bull still managed to fix things very quickly. This time Ferrari had the same problems but the thing was that they weren't capable of solving them. After Leclerc captured a big advantage over Verstappen he was suddenly way behind him. Leclerc deserves a fair fight for the title so I hope Ferrari return better than this.

[swogerino]

He is the most talented name among active pilots, who is only 25 years old but he is much more matured than his age. Moreover, he wasn't even a bit mature until 2 years ago. Currently, he is reckless but passionate and drives flawlessly. An incredible man. One of the biggest factors in this is that he clashed with a giant who became world champion 7 times last year..

I'm a person who thinks that max's pure piloting skills are superior to everyone else with Fernando. The multi championships of lewis were just like this year's championship of verstappen. The car was always important in formula1. It was important 50 years ago and it will be important 50 years from now. Tired of hearing the argument that attributes his success only to the car.

When his career is over, if he doesn't spend many years in a non-competitive car like Alonso, he will become a champion many times. It will go down in f1 history as an icon.

We can't be sure.

He is one of the strongest for sure, but I wanna see Charles or Lewis with the same car make the call 1st.
For sure he has more experience than Leclerc, he is on f1 already for 7 years now even though he is still very young.

I think Charles is better than Max on qualifying, for the race he has not have the experience.

We all asked the same for our driver that we fancy to be in the same car as Hamilton when Mercedes was winning races yet Mercedes immediately chose Bottas after Rosberg left to not give headaches to Hamilton anymore because when Rosberg was there the battle was fierce and he won a Championship in F1,with polemics but he won it.
For this Max was a great guy he never aspired being a Mercedes driver and continued with Redbull,now he is only collecting what he saw for his career by staying at Redbull.

So we can't make such comparisons,what we should expect is the team to give Leclerc a winning car like this year but much more reliable than the car of this year and also the same to be brought by some other teams,this will give great emotions to the F1 season.

[coinlocket$]

They had big hopes at the beginning because they had the fastest car on the grid. Red Bull were struggling with big problems like durability. Verstappen and Perez both had bad days then. However Red Bull still managed to fix things very quickly. This time Ferrari had the same problems but the thing was that they weren't capable of solving them. After Leclerc captured a big advantage over Verstappen he was suddenly way behind him. Leclerc deserves a fair fight for the title so I hope Ferrari return better than this.

Easy to fix your problem if you ignore the budget cap and find solutions to your problems with extra money while at the same time your opponents remain within the cap, not only they need to fix the problems of the car but also they need to push even more to the limit because you are cheating.

[AndySt]

The Formula 1 championship this year is quite paradoxical, because everyone was looking forward to the fact that with the change of technical regulations we would get a lot of competition in the fight for the championship title, but as a result we got something different when the same driver won the title for a huge advantage for the second year in a row. And if last year there was an acute struggle until the very finish of the championship, until the very last stage, until the very last lap, now everything was already clear to absolutely everyone in the middle of the season, just some were afraid to admit it to themselves and waited in vain for the revival of intrigue.

[RealMalatesta]

The FIA has been putting on a horrible performance these past few days, it is unfortunate to see that F1, a sport so loved by many people, is being destroyed by the incompetence of this disastrous organisation.
If the criticism of the FIA was already extremely justifiable before, the situation became almost untenable in a matter of days, with the revelation of the hole in the spending ceiling by Red Bull and, of course, the disastrous Japanese GP, with confusion in the title announcement. of Max Verstappen and even flirt with tragedy with inexplicable tractor entry onto the track.
Worst of all is that the FIA continues to think that everything is normal. How long will this be!?

Until they start losing money, or at least not profiting as much as they do right now. I can sort of understand Red Bull decision, they are the best team right now and to just stop them or take back their trophy would be very tough decision and would be very much going against the tide, they like keeping the winners winning, aka mercedes situation, it gives people something to cheer for.

However, with Netflix series and all, they have managed to actually gain so much expertise that I am not really seeing them losing profits at all, they keep making more and more money, which means there is no doubt in my mind that they will keep doing what they are doing.

[Velvet78]

They had big hopes at the beginning because they had the fastest car on the grid. Red Bull were struggling with big problems like durability. Verstappen and Perez both had bad days then. However Red Bull still managed to fix things very quickly. This time Ferrari had the same problems but the thing was that they weren't capable of solving them. After Leclerc captured a big advantage over Verstappen he was suddenly way behind him. Leclerc deserves a fair fight for the title so I hope Ferrari return better than this.

Easy to fix your problem if you ignore the budget cap and find solutions to your problems with extra money while at the same time your opponents remain within the cap, not only they need to fix the problems of the car but also they need to push even more to the limit because you are cheating.

This is the situation exactly. Red Bull have fixed everything thanks to spending more money than they are allowed. The other teams must be really regretful for not doing the same because it is only a fine for the punishment nothing more than that. I bet there will be some teams doing the same next season. I will be looking forward to seeing FIA's decision about them as well.

If they don't make the same decision as the one they will make for Red Bull then we will be sure of FIA's goal. If they apply the same rules to every team without any problem then I won't think about them as partial at least for now. But this still doesn't change the fact that Red Bull have benefited from many failures by FIA in this season.