Bitcoin Forum
September 20, 2018, 10:03:08 AM *
News: ♦♦ Bitcoin Core users must update to 0.16.3 [Torrent]. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitmain Announces the Antminer R4 and APW5 Power Supply, Designed for Silence  (Read 67519 times)
sidehack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1820
Merit: 1151

Curmudgeonly hardware guy


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 04:19:47 AM
 #161

Unless the cables are sturdy enough for splitters, which if they're 18AWG on the PSU I wouldn't trust it too far.

1537437788
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537437788

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537437788
Reply with quote  #2

1537437788
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1537437788
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1537437788

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1537437788
Reply with quote  #2

1537437788
Report to moderator
Searing
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1848
Merit: 1057


Clueless!


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 05:43:11 AM
 #162

The only thing I see that is reasonably priced is the new PSU at 300 bucks....(or am I incorrect on that as well)

but $1300 bucks for the hash on this R4 don't cut it...

The colohub hosting we have they shut off their spondoolies sp35's as not being eff enough anymore and they probably have 4c kwh elec..also they have to keep
the whole place at 62F so part of the shut down is ie ..space heater vs what you are paying to air condition such...but anyway

so .anyway for what these spondoolies units go for on ebay (with built in psu) vs what you have to pay for the R4 with a psu...well...

pretty slim difference.....maybe if you were in Texas and had 4c kwh and it was in the garage...or basement or something.

but in the hosting field (with the heat output vs a/c and the say 4c kwh price) all I can say is the racks are being taken down as we speak

of spondoolies/bitmain S5 and maybe S7 as we speak....but they are putting up a lot of ether rigs by golly Smiley















 

 

█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
BitBlender 

 













 















 












 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
█ 
Xircom
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 1000



View Profile
August 30, 2016, 07:05:10 AM
 #163

The only thing I see that is reasonably priced is the new PSU at 300 bucks....(or am I incorrect on that as well)

but $1300 bucks for the hash on this R4 don't cut it...

The colohub hosting we have they shut off their spondoolies sp35's as not being eff enough anymore and they probably have 4c kwh elec..also they have to keep
the whole place at 62F so part of the shut down is ie ..space heater vs what you are paying to air condition such...but anyway

so .anyway for what these spondoolies units go for on ebay (with built in psu) vs what you have to pay for the R4 with a psu...well...

pretty slim difference.....maybe if you were in Texas and had 4c kwh and it was in the garage...or basement or something.

but in the hosting field (with the heat output vs a/c and the say 4c kwh price) all I can say is the racks are being taken down as we speak

of spondoolies/bitmain S5 and maybe S7 as we speak....but they are putting up a lot of ether rigs by golly Smiley



I think its still a mystery why people are taking down the S7`s . They are the miners who finds blocks, not the S9 with BMMiner.
I did take down 50 pcs S5 and 50 pcs SP20e to make room for S7`and S9 and im not jumping on the wagon with the R4. The price/TH ratio is just plain stupid. If buying for 10k you get 80TH on the S9 and only 61,65TH on the R4 !!!!
Why on earth buying the R4 then ? Loosing almost 20TH, just to save on noise, or should we say Loosing 2500,-$...
Damn, for 1/3 of that price you could build a silence room and fill it up with Server PSU`s and S9`s...

Brinning back Home mining, my ass...... Its a freaking joke !

BTC: 1MyJmxS9ER5ZBNvpG3LhoUXGotpzbPowed
QuintLeo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1190
Merit: 1022


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 09:38:42 AM
 #164

The only thing I see that is reasonably priced is the new PSU at 300 bucks....(or am I incorrect on that as well)


I think its still a mystery why people are taking down the S7`s



 The new PSU I think turned out to be $260. Not bad at all for it's capabilities, *IF* it proves to be reliable.
 7 *PAIRS* of PCI-E 6-pin connectors specified, dunno if that's supposed to be 7 cables or 14 cables but it sounds like it might be 7 cables with 2 connectors per cable? VERY VERY unclear.



 Folks that are shutting down S7s are probably in one of 3 situations (1) HIGH summer electric rates, a lot of utility companies bump the rates a LOT during "A/C season" for 3 months or so out of the year, making an S7 unprofitable (2) High electric rate in general, making the S7 marginal to unprofitable with recent difficulty and price (3) unit died.


I'm no longer legendary just in my own mind!
Like something I said? Donations gratefully accepted. LYLnTKvLefz9izJFUvEGQEZzSkz34b3N6U (Litecoin)
1GYbjMTPdCuV7dci3iCUiaRrcNuaiQrVYY (Bitcoin)
adaseb
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1722
Merit: 1086



View Profile
August 30, 2016, 12:36:09 PM
 #165

One of the PCIe looks burnt.

https://bitmaintech.com/bm_tech_admin_at_123/userfiles/image/antminer-r4-front.jpg

.FORTUNE.JACK.
      ▄▄███████▄▄
   ▄████▀▀ ▄ ██████▄
  ████ ▄▄███ ████████
 █████▌▐███▌ ▀▄ ▀█████
███████▄██▀▀▀▀▄████████
█████▀▄▄▄▄█████████████
████▄▄▄▄ █████████████
 ██████▌ ███▀████████
  ███████▄▀▄████████
   ▀█████▀▀███████▀
      ▀▀██████▀▀
         
         █
...FortuneJack.com                                             
...THE BIGGEST BITCOIN GAMBLING SITE
       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄█████████████████▄
  ▄█████████████████████▄
 ▄██
█████████▀███████████▄
██████████▀   ▀██████████
█████████▀       ▀█████████
████████           ████████
████████▄   ▄ ▄   ▄████████
██████████▀   ▀██████████
 ▀██
█████████████████████▀
  ▀██
███████████████████▀
    ▀█████████████████▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
#JACKMATE
WIN 1 BTC
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██████████▀█████▀██████████
███████▀░░▀░░░░░▀░░▀███████
██████▌░░░░░░░░░░░░░▐██████
██████░░░░██░░░██░░░░██████
█████▌░░░░▀▀░░░▀▀░░░░▐█████
██████▄░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░▄██████
████████▄▄███████▄▄████████

███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████▀
cloh76
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 317
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 30, 2016, 01:05:01 PM
 #166

So looking at the specs - the R4 only requires an 850Watt power supply?

[ BTC Donations: 13RNJdT72WEd1FsT3CwdJ6jy9NAa7Hsb54 ]
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2226
Merit: 1338


Avalon 841 rocks


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 02:52:35 PM
 #167


did you screen shot it?

the photo is gone

hot link to photo is not allowed but I think you mean this:


I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
klondike_bar_recovery
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 03:55:26 PM
 #168

The only thing I see that is reasonably priced is the new PSU at 300 bucks....(or am I incorrect on that as well)

but $1300 bucks for the hash on this R4 don't cut it...

The colohub hosting we have they shut off their spondoolies sp35's as not being eff enough anymore and they probably have 4c kwh elec..also they have to keep
the whole place at 62F so part of the shut down is ie ..space heater vs what you are paying to air condition such...but anyway

so .anyway for what these spondoolies units go for on ebay (with built in psu) vs what you have to pay for the R4 with a psu...well...

pretty slim difference.....maybe if you were in Texas and had 4c kwh and it was in the garage...or basement or something.

but in the hosting field (with the heat output vs a/c and the say 4c kwh price) all I can say is the racks are being taken down as we speak

of spondoolies/bitmain S5 and maybe S7 as we speak....but they are putting up a lot of ether rigs by golly Smiley



I think its still a mystery why people are taking down the S7`s . They are the miners who finds blocks, not the S9 with BMMiner.
I did take down 50 pcs S5 and 50 pcs SP20e to make room for S7`and S9 and im not jumping on the wagon with the R4. The price/TH ratio is just plain stupid. If buying for 10k you get 80TH on the S9 and only 61,65TH on the R4 !!!!
Why on earth buying the R4 then ? Loosing almost 20TH, just to save on noise, or should we say Loosing 2500,-$...
Damn, for 1/3 of that price you could build a silence room and fill it up with Server PSU`s and S9`s...

Brinning back Home mining, my ass...... Its a freaking joke !


this isnt marketed to those who have a 10k budget. its for those who can only spare a few kw in a building were power is cheap/"free" but space and noise must be limited (such as a condo, dorm, etc)

if someone is looking for just buying a single miner to run in thier living room, the S9 is a horrible choice because of its noisy dB. even if it was underclocked to 8TH, the S9 would probably still be louder than this, and I think that's bitmain's target market on the R4
h3rlihy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 356
Merit: 250


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 04:54:28 PM
 #169

Accidentally release it at double the intended price? I was excited at the potential of mining at home again.. nevermind.
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2226
Merit: 1338


Avalon 841 rocks


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 04:56:18 PM
 #170

The only thing I see that is reasonably priced is the new PSU at 300 bucks....(or am I incorrect on that as well)

but $1300 bucks for the hash on this R4 don't cut it...

The colohub hosting we have they shut off their spondoolies sp35's as not being eff enough anymore and they probably have 4c kwh elec..also they have to keep
the whole place at 62F so part of the shut down is ie ..space heater vs what you are paying to air condition such...but anyway

so .anyway for what these spondoolies units go for on ebay (with built in psu) vs what you have to pay for the R4 with a psu...well...

pretty slim difference.....maybe if you were in Texas and had 4c kwh and it was in the garage...or basement or something.

but in the hosting field (with the heat output vs a/c and the say 4c kwh price) all I can say is the racks are being taken down as we speak

of spondoolies/bitmain S5 and maybe S7 as we speak....but they are putting up a lot of ether rigs by golly Smiley



I think its still a mystery why people are taking down the S7`s . They are the miners who finds blocks, not the S9 with BMMiner.
I did take down 50 pcs S5 and 50 pcs SP20e to make room for S7`and S9 and im not jumping on the wagon with the R4. The price/TH ratio is just plain stupid. If buying for 10k you get 80TH on the S9 and only 61,65TH on the R4 !!!!
Why on earth buying the R4 then ? Loosing almost 20TH, just to save on noise, or should we say Loosing 2500,-$...
Damn, for 1/3 of that price you could build a silence room and fill it up with Server PSU`s and S9`s...

Brinning back Home mining, my ass...... Its a freaking joke !


this isnt marketed to those who have a 10k budget. its for those who can only spare a few kw in a building were power is cheap/"free" but space and noise must be limited (such as a condo, dorm, etc)

if someone is looking for just buying a single miner to run in thier living room, the S9 is a horrible choice because of its noisy dB. even if it was underclocked to 8TH, the S9 would probably still be louder than this, and I think that's bitmain's target market on the R4

Yeah this is a free power office heater.  my buddy is mining with an s7-ln in his office with 2.4 cent power.

this would allow a move from 2th to 7th    with an increase in watts from 440 to 700   pretty good  if you can get a decent warranty.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
jermwerty
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 475
Merit: 250


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 08:24:26 PM
 #171

Accidentally release it at double the intended price? I was excited at the potential of mining at home again.. nevermind.

Bitmain's early batches are always spendy.  When this doesn't move they will drop the price.

How many people overpaid for Batch 1 S9s?  Plenty!
Tupsu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1003



View Profile
August 30, 2016, 09:18:32 PM
 #172



Bitmain's early batches are always spendy.  When this doesn't move they will drop the price.

How many people overpaid for Batch 1 S9s?  Plenty!

But Bach1 was better, as this todays S9 crap.
Yesterday I lost another CENTER hashblade from NEW miner.
Shipped 2016-08-18
The total count  is now 8 hashblade from 23 miner.
3 boards from 11xS9B1 , But one was D.O.A.  5 boards from following baches 12 miners.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=914354.20

Eyedol-X
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868
Merit: 504



View Profile
August 30, 2016, 10:04:46 PM
 #173

With the rates of Bitmain product failure being reported recently, I believe one or more of the following issues are occuring:
  • Poor packaging at the time of shipment preventing miners from arriving without damages
  • Little or no QA being done at the factory
  • Poor support from the manufacturer (Bitmain)
  • Weak or poor quality pieces being used during assembly leading to pre-mature failures due to shipping or use

IMO these units should be bench tested for at least 72 hours before shipping but I doubt Bitmain can or would be willing to do that. If Btimain is doing this today, I'd love to hear about it and read about it.

To me, the quality of the product is contingent on the warranty offered with the product. Memory manufacturers frequently offer lifetime warranties on computer memory because they consider how often does memory fail vs how much memory is being sold. The ratio of failure is so low, they can easily offer a lifetime warranty and remain profitable.

Now a 90 day warranty tells me that the manufacturer doesn't believe their product will last long term or it has been constructed in such poor conditions and of such poor quality that they cannot reasonably offer more than a few months of warranty because they expect a high rate a failure. Simply put, if they offered a longer warranty, they expect to lose money selling the product. Since Bitmain is a "for-profit" business and not a charity, I can deduct this 90 day warranty is the limit of what they can offer while maintaining their desired profit margins.
  • I suspect they(Bitmain) are well aware of this expectation of high failure rates and a sign of this is the fact they offer such poor support and will frequently refuse warranty repairs on items that are essentially brand new -- I could cite multiple examples of this found here and elsewhere on the web but this is not the point of my remarks here today.

In Summary, This type of business practice is not conducive of a company that will remain in business without consumer demand. The challenge the consumer has today is the fact that Bitmain is located in China where manufacturing costs are extremely low and regulation is extremely limited. The fact that Bitmain basically has a monopoloy over the SHA-256 mining industry is yet another reason why the consumer will continue to suffer unless things change in the world where they(Bitmain) have some real competition in their targeted business area. If such an event were to occur; an event where a company is able to release a *profitable* product that truly completes with a Bitmain product; that will then only be the day where the consumer will have some real power in the world of SHA-256 Asic's and Bitcoin mining. Until that day occurs, as consumers we have 2 options, either move on to Alt-Coins or bend over and take it when Bitmain throws their weight around.
  • A recent example of this can be seen by listing the price at 1000 USD then increasing the price on the day of release
  • A conspiracy theory: I too have seen the correlation mentioned by Phillipma1957 when it comes to product pricing and global hash rate just before release of a new Bitmain product ... it's unsettling and almost blantantly obvious

I haven't given up on Bitcoin mining but I have gave up on the idea that Bitmain actually gives a crap about the products they produce and the small scale miners of the world. "Bringing mining back home" again .... yeah right. Nice shiny piece of shit you got there Bitmain. Oh it's not a piece of shit you say? Then put a real warranty on it.
sidehack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1820
Merit: 1151

Curmudgeonly hardware guy


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
 #174

Simply put, if they offered a longer warranty, they expect to lose money selling the product.

I posit that, if they offered a longer warranty, they expect not to be losing money, but to not be profiting as grossly as they would prefer. You said it yourself:

Bitmain is located in China where manufacturing costs are extremely low and regulation is extremely limited.
snip
Bitmain basically has a monopoloy over the SHA-256 mining industry
snip
gave up on the idea that Bitmain actually gives a crap about the products they produce

It's basically impossible for Bitmain to be losing money on their miners. They have moved how many thousands of S9 at $1600-2200? The mechanical tooling costs are almost zero since they use the same extrusions as S7 for both housing and heatsinks. ASIC costs are high, but even if we assume $5 cost per chip (and they could profit from raw chip sales of BM1384 at $2.50, what's 16nm cost vs 28nm?) makes $945 per miner so let's be generous and give it $1100 in materials. First batches were 100% markup, now we're down to only 50% or so. Material costs on the R4 would be a bit higher in tooling for the new case and fan, but at $5 per ASIC we're looking at $630 and the engineering for boards is next to nothing since it's probably the exact same circuit as S9 but with a slightly different PCB layout. So if we generously assume $800 materials that's only 75% markup. At that point you could replace one board in every R4 sold and still draw about 20% profits.

BobLawblaw
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036
Merit: 1493


Bitcointalks Most Fabulously Gay Black Power-Top


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 10:33:44 PM
 #175

I haven't given up on Bitcoin mining but I have gave up on the idea that Bitmain actually gives a crap about the products they produce and the small scale miners of the world. "Bringing mining back home" again .... yeah right. Nice shiny piece of shit you got there Bitmain. Oh it's not a piece of shit you say? Then put a real warranty on it.

For all intents and purposes, given the current offerings available to home miners, BTC might as well stand for "BitmainCoin".

TBH, Bitmain should just go full evil and stop selling small orders to customers, with their current shitty attitudes and business practices. Just mine for themselves or sell to industrial customers like the other guys are rumored to be doing.

But I guess as long as suckers keep buying this shit...
miropp
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 452
Merit: 101


Powering real economy in the gaming world


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 10:36:21 PM
 #176

Are there any discount coupons for S9/R4?

──────⟩   PLAYGAME   ⟨──────
Whitepaper Powering real economy in the gaming world Onepager
Telegram ENG / IND Group Channel ⟩──MediumTwitterYouTube
Eyedol-X
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868
Merit: 504



View Profile
August 30, 2016, 10:37:42 PM
 #177

Simply put, if they offered a longer warranty, they expect to lose money selling the product.

I posit that, if they offered a longer warranty, they expect not to be losing money, but to not be profiting as grossly as they would prefer. You said it yourself:

Bitmain is located in China where manufacturing costs are extremely low and regulation is extremely limited.
snip
Bitmain basically has a monopoloy over the SHA-256 mining industry
snip
gave up on the idea that Bitmain actually gives a crap about the products they produce

It's basically impossible for Bitmain to be losing money on their miners. They have moved how many thousands of S9 at $1600-2200? The mechanical tooling costs are almost zero since they use the same extrusions as S7 for both housing and heatsinks. ASIC costs are high, but even if we assume $5 cost per chip (and they could profit from raw chip sales of BM1384 at $2.50, what's 16nm cost vs 28nm?) makes $945 per miner so let's be generous and give it $1100 in materials. First batches were 100% markup, now we're down to only 50% or so. Material costs on the R4 would be a bit higher in tooling for the new case and fan, but at $5 per ASIC we're looking at $630 and the engineering for boards is next to nothing since it's probably the exact same circuit as S9 but with a slightly different PCB layout. So if we generously assume $800 materials that's only 75% markup. At that point you could replace one board in every R4 sold and still draw about 20% profits.

I agree it's basically impossible for them to lose money -- i was being generous with those statements while trying to be objective about the fact that they could easily offer a longer warranty. Candidly, my opinion is that they choose not to because they want to maintain the highest possible profit margins.

It's not uncommon for many industries to have 100% markup on products, especially new products. In fact, in some industries 1000% markup is considered the norm.

The reason why Bitmain won't do these things? Answer: No real competition aka, a monopoly on their industry segment.

Edit: To clarify the first part of your reply -- IMO - A manufacturer that produces products they care about would offer the best possible product with the best possible warranty while maintaining the highest possible profit margins based upon consumer demand. A manufacturer that produces products they do not care about would offer the least costly product with the least amount of warranty while maintaining the highest possible profit margins based upon consumer demand.

I think Bitmain realizes that Bitcoin mining is a niche industry and that their foothold won't last forever so they are trying to cash in while they can.
Eyedol-X
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868
Merit: 504



View Profile
August 30, 2016, 10:38:41 PM
 #178

I haven't given up on Bitcoin mining but I have gave up on the idea that Bitmain actually gives a crap about the products they produce and the small scale miners of the world. "Bringing mining back home" again .... yeah right. Nice shiny piece of shit you got there Bitmain. Oh it's not a piece of shit you say? Then put a real warranty on it.

For all intents and purposes, given the current offerings available to home miners, BTC might as well stand for "BitmainCoin".

TBH, Bitmain should just go full evil and stop selling small orders to customers, with their current shitty attitudes and business practices. Just mine for themselves or sell to industrial customers like the other guys are rumored to be doing.

But I guess as long as suckers keep buying this shit...

Word
Tupsu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232
Merit: 1003



View Profile
August 30, 2016, 10:49:02 PM
 #179

Are there any discount coupons for S9/R4?

Discount for R4 -Yes.  (About 100 USD per miner., 60 USD per PSU)
Coupons -No.

First days orders were calculated without   shipping costs.

Biodom
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1077


View Profile
August 30, 2016, 10:58:32 PM
 #180

I still think that the best thing for bitcoin developers is to go back to the drawing board to GET RID of ASICs altogether and either develop around plentiful GPUs that are pretty much a commodity OR make a node-based POS scheme which alts are toying with. The first option is much more preferable to me.

Barring this , the conversation goes like this:

Miners: Can we get a 1 year (REAL) warranty?
BMT: No, but you can pay for the unit that will breakeven in 350-400 days (it is so pretty and quiet; your cat can doze off on the top of it).
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!