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Author Topic: Bitmain Announces the Antminer R4 and APW5 Power Supply, Designed for Silence  (Read 67659 times)
generalt
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August 31, 2016, 01:42:49 AM
 #181

I still think that the best thing for bitcoin developers is to go back to the drawing board to GET RID of ASICs altogether and either develop around plentiful GPUs that are pretty much a commodity OR make a node-based POS scheme which alts are toying with. The first option is much more preferable to me.

Barring this , the conversation goes like this:

Miners: Can we get a 1 year (REAL) warranty?
BMT: No, but you can pay for the unit that will breakeven in 350-400 days (it is so pretty and quiet; your cat can doze off on the top of it).

BMT:  But if your cat dozes off on it, that will void your warranty.  Thank you come again.

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August 31, 2016, 02:26:42 AM
 #182

I still think that the best thing for bitcoin developers is to go back to the drawing board to GET RID of ASICs altogether and either develop around plentiful GPUs that are pretty much a commodity OR make a node-based POS scheme which alts are toying with. The first option is much more preferable to me.

Barring this , the conversation goes like this:

Miners: Can we get a 1 year (REAL) warranty?
BMT: No, but you can pay for the unit that will breakeven in 350-400 days (it is so pretty and quiet; your cat can doze off on the top of it).

GPU mining wouldn't be that much better, it would drive the cost of equipment up (and hurt gamers who don't want anything to do with Bitcoin) and/or the profitability would settle somewhere around 5-year ROI or some such silly figure, if people keep doing what they're doing now, i.e. bad math and wishful thinking.

Let's face it, what's happening is as much the fault of pigopolists as it is the fault of those who keep throwing money at them. We don't need GPUs or POS to stop buying from Bitmain. We can just stop buying from Bitmain, can't we?

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August 31, 2016, 03:27:37 AM
 #183



Yeah this is a free power office heater.  my buddy is mining with an s7-ln in his office with 2.4 cent power.


 Where is he getting power that cheap?
 I've seen basic rates that low near where I'm at, but not overall TOTAL rates except perhaps for very very large industrial operations or perhaps on large contracts....


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August 31, 2016, 03:43:12 AM
 #184

I believe it's an arrangement where power is a three-way split in a shared (and over-airconditioned?) office, so he's only paying one third of the miner's power cost but has practical draw and volume limits and benefits from the output heat.

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August 31, 2016, 04:36:55 AM
 #185

I believe it's an arrangement where power is a three-way split in a shared (and over-airconditioned?) office, so he's only paying one third of the miner's power cost but has practical draw and volume limits and benefits from the output heat.

Yep.

He leases a floor above a bank .

He sublets to a lawyer. And he pays 20 % of the power bill.

The office he is in is icecubes due to lots of ac.   He used a pair of 1500 watt space heaters. At 900 watts. Settings in the winter and 450 watt settings in the summer.

I have supplied s-3s and skipped the s-5 . He had an s-7 for the winter now has a s7-ln for the summer .

The r4 is pretty much a perfect item for him.  But the short warranty and my dead s9 boards make us hesitate to get it.

I tried the PayPal option since I could use my discover card with it  1 year warranty would be added on that way.

So I would have a quiet miner with 15 month warranty using 2.4 cent power.

Pretty much a certain profit for me and my buddy.

But bitmaintech has not used PayPal on the r4.

Too bad as it would be a natural for people that need to use a space heater all year round.

This would help sales and since roi on the r4 projects to more then 280 days for roi at low power cost.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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August 31, 2016, 10:14:22 AM
 #186

can we use one APW5 to power two antminer R4? i am in 220volt so should be generate 2600watt

I believe you will have a shortage of pcie cables.

just checked, comes with 7 pairs pci-e. So this one APW5 will be good for two R4. But the price R4 is too expensive...CRAZY
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August 31, 2016, 06:52:25 PM
 #187

I believe it's an arrangement where power is a three-way split in a shared (and over-airconditioned?) office, so he's only paying one third of the miner's power cost but has practical draw and volume limits and benefits from the output heat.

Yep.

He leases a floor above a bank .

He sublets to a lawyer. And he pays 20 % of the power bill.

The office he is in is icecubes due to lots of ac.   He used a pair of 1500 watt space heaters. At 900 watts. Settings in the winter and 450 watt settings in the summer.

I have supplied s-3s and skipped the s-5 . He had an s-7 for the winter now has a s7-ln for the summer .

The r4 is pretty much a perfect item for him.  But the short warranty and my dead s9 boards make us hesitate to get it.

I tried the PayPal option since I could use my discover card with it  1 year warranty would be added on that way.

So I would have a quiet miner with 15 month warranty using 2.4 cent power.

Pretty much a certain profit for me and my buddy.

But bitmaintech has not used PayPal on the r4.

Too bad as it would be a natural for people that need to use a space heater all year round.

This would help sales and since roi on the r4 projects to more then 280 days for roi at low power cost.

Phil, can you elaborate how you can make that work? I know cc companies have those extended warranty policies but never really know how it works and what cc user can do in case the purchased item does smoke.

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August 31, 2016, 07:46:29 PM
 #188

Phil, can you elaborate how you can make that work? I know cc companies have those extended warranty policies but never really know how it works and what cc user can do in case the purchased item does smoke.
You really have to read the fine print on each cc to understand what may be covered. I have obviously not seen every cc out there, but from what I have seen cc companies will only double the warranty period up to a maximum of one full year. In that case, the warranty would only be extended for 90 days. I think that doubling the warranty makes sense because why would the cc companies in their right mind warranty something longer than the manufacturer does.

Anyway, I actually doubt that the cc companies will even cover a claim for a device such as these. In the fine print of my card, it states that it does not cover the following:
Quote
-Any exclusion listed in the original manufacturer's warranty.
-Physical damage to the item.
-Mechanical failures caused by lack of maintenance/service.
-Mechanical failures caused by normal wear and tear or gradual deterioration where no failure has occurred.
-Losses caused by power surge, contamination by radioactive or hazardous substances, including mold.
-Items purchased for resale, professional, or commercial use.
This list is not exhaustive and I only included those items I thought relevant.

Casual Miner: 3x 2PAC and 3x Moonlander 2
Retired HW: 2x AntMiner S7-LN, 5x AntMiner U1, 2x ASICMiner Block Erupter Cube, 4x AntMiner S3, 4x AntMiner S1, GAW Black Widow, and ZeusMiner Thunder X6
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August 31, 2016, 08:15:45 PM
 #189

re: cc exclusions
-Losses caused by power surge, contamination by radioactive or hazardous substances, including mold.
Radioactive? Hmm, maybe someone tried to exchange a TV or stereo that was around Fukushima?  Huh

-Items purchased for resale, professional, or commercial use.
THAT might be the killer. Remember, per the Judges in the KnC lawsuits -- Bitcoin mining generates income. No matter how limited, that constitutes being a business so is commercial use.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
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August 31, 2016, 08:23:17 PM
 #190

ended poll when I realized they only double warranty.

So  90 days = 180 days.

and 180 days is about 120 days short of roi on this.

truly a roadblock to purchasing the gear.

My power is cheap enough the a 1 year real warranty would  work but a 180 day simply does not.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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August 31, 2016, 10:05:44 PM
 #191

no comment i wasn't disagreeing .

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September 01, 2016, 01:10:22 AM
 #192


-Items purchased for resale, professional, or commercial use.
THAT might be the killer. Remember, per the Judges in the KnC lawsuits -- Bitcoin mining generates income. No matter how limited, that constitutes being a business so is commercial use.
In the US that will happen .!!! unless you can prove some how it was not meant to make money which would be very hard being the miners whole purpose is to make something of value that is used to support your self even if it doesn't.

cusal mining is considered a business according to the US tax law unless that has changed.
<snip>
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Consult a tax lawyer!
Here in the USA the IRS does not consider coin mining automatically a business.

They DO however require that you report all income derived from it and pay taxes on it. Since sizeable exchanges of BTC into my bank account as fiat will be reported by Coinbase and my bank anyway, I do declare that to the IRS.

BUT - If you do setup a 1 person private corp to mine coin - that opens the door to being able to write off the cost of hardware used per-standard depreciation of office equipment - specifically, computers along with being able to itemize/deduct other aspects of the business. Again, consult a tax attorney on that.

Oh, and purchases made on a Corporate Card by nature ARE covered on the cards warranty extension plans Wink

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
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September 01, 2016, 01:57:28 AM
 #193

Don't forget  PAYPAL has a business master card which i have, you can use, but not sure you can with butmain, they don't take CC yet  ? , I'm aware of, unless you do it the PAYPAL way, link a CC and Pay that way, which I do a lot, and have for years, i was one of the first to sigh up for paypal back when they offered 5 bucks or more for signing up .when the service seemed like it was gonna fail, don't know if anyone here remembers those days . well any way im getting off topic .

Cya .

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September 01, 2016, 03:13:35 AM
 #194

Don't forget  PAYPAL has a business master card which i have, you can use, but not sure you can with butmain, they don't take CC yet  ? , I'm aware of, unless you do it the PAYPAL way, link a CC and Pay that way, which I do a lot, and have for years, i was one of the first to sigh up for paypal back when they offered 5 bucks or more for signing up .when the service seemed like it was gonna fail, don't know if anyone here remembers those days . well any way im getting off topic .

Cya .

Yeah I have a paypal business card.

I could get the gear on that and expand coverage to,six months .

I have done more then 500,000 in eBay sales and I have done more then 150,000 in purchases with my eBay card.

My eBay name is philipma1957. And have more then 1500 positive feedback so with zero negative.

So I would like bitmaintech to allow PayPal.

I also have PayPal credit and could get six months to pay for an r4.

It becomes rather annoying to not be able to do business with bitmaintech in a more normal,manner.

I am mining with 20 gpus and 8 pc's about five thousand worth of gear.
All with one year made into two year warranty. It is better to do this and simply convert the eth to btc.
Mostly due the fact the pc gear holds value and has the two year warranty .

Right now the economics simply say gpu mine.
Bitmaintech needs to figure a better warranty or more will simply gpu mine.

I think something will happen soon.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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September 01, 2016, 02:18:31 PM
 #195

I still think that the best thing for bitcoin developers is to go back to the drawing board to GET RID of ASICs altogether and either develop around plentiful GPUs that are pretty much a commodity OR make a node-based POS scheme which alts are toying with. The first option is much more preferable to me.

Barring this , the conversation goes like this:

Miners: Can we get a 1 year (REAL) warranty?
BMT: No, but you can pay for the unit that will breakeven in 350-400 days (it is so pretty and quiet; your cat can doze off on the top of it).

It's very unlikely that anyone can come up with a algorithm that can not be someday integrated into ASICs. If the algorithm makes money, there will be development for ASICs.

Spreadcoin (SPR) had a great idea of preventing pools, but that would only make farms compete at a greater level. The equal and fair distrubition purpose would not again be achieved.

PoS on the other is proven not to be a great idea as rich seems to get richer and the incentive to run a full node with low coins is not appealing as it should be.

I've also been thinking about a solution for this. Not expecting for BTC to achiev it, but at least a altcoin that could progress through Proof of Work and keeping the distribution as fair as possible and beyond the reaches of companies.

I'm sure this miner is great and all but it's just a ripoff. Sad part is people are actually going to buy it anyway.

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September 01, 2016, 07:03:19 PM
 #196

Oh well ...
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September 01, 2016, 10:36:19 PM
 #197

As far as payouts and mining BTC, would it be perceivable that someone could create an altcoin that could be worth while to merge mine with BTC or one that wold be linked to the pool that would award the miner when a BTC block is found.
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September 02, 2016, 01:27:20 AM
 #198

As far as payouts and mining BTC, would it be perceivable that someone could create an altcoin that could be worth while to merge mine with BTC or one that wold be linked to the pool that would award the miner when a BTC block is found.

There are already several established altcoins that are being merge mined with BTC. However, they are not popular as they used to be so this might be the reason you may not heard of them if you are new to mining scene. Either way, it wasn't really changing anything. The income from merge mined coins for breadcrumbs to be honest.

Recently there are several efforts to use bitcoin blockchain as a security to other coin's chains, but a solid project may yet to come.

The most popular coin with merge mine was Namecoin.

You can refer to this link if you want to learn more about merge mining.

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September 02, 2016, 05:11:48 AM
 #199

As far as payouts and mining BTC, would it be perceivable that someone could create an altcoin that could be worth while to merge mine with BTC or one that wold be linked to the pool that would award the miner when a BTC block is found.

There are already several established altcoins that are being merge mined with BTC. However, they are not popular as they used to be so this might be the reason you may not heard of them if you are new to mining scene. Either way, it wasn't really changing anything. The income from merge mined coins for breadcrumbs to be honest.

Recently there are several efforts to use bitcoin blockchain as a security to other coin's chains, but a solid project may yet to come.

The most popular coin with merge mine was Namecoin.

You can refer to this link if you want to learn more about merge mining.


I use www..litecoinpool.org..it is always UP ...I have not had backup pool set for 2 years lol ....he merge mines and keeps that and there is NO fee and because
of merge mining pays out your mining in LTC at 103% rate...has nice calculator and tools also/graphs

so no issues ..but has the benefits to me of kinda merge mining w/o the hassle and that 3% w/o a pool fee is equiv of say slush at 4% MORE to you over the fact of a say
regular 1% fee scypt pool ...all lumped in the basket.















 

 

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nasituygun
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September 02, 2016, 04:47:13 PM
 #200

As far as payouts and mining BTC, would it be perceivable that someone could create an altcoin that could be worth while to merge mine with BTC or one that wold be linked to the pool that would award the miner when a BTC block is found.

There are already several established altcoins that are being merge mined with BTC. However, they are not popular as they used to be so this might be the reason you may not heard of them if you are new to mining scene. Either way, it wasn't really changing anything. The income from merge mined coins for breadcrumbs to be honest.

Recently there are several efforts to use bitcoin blockchain as a security to other coin's chains, but a solid project may yet to come.

The most popular coin with merge mine was Namecoin.

You can refer to this link if you want to learn more about merge mining.


I use www..litecoinpool.org..it is always UP ...I have not had backup pool set for 2 years lol ....he merge mines and keeps that and there is NO fee and because
of merge mining pays out your mining in LTC at 103% rate...has nice calculator and tools also/graphs

so no issues ..but has the benefits to me of kinda merge mining w/o the hassle and that 3% w/o a pool fee is equiv of say slush at 4% MORE to you over the fact of a say
regular 1% fee scypt pool ...all lumped in the basket.



Yeah, cutting the fees and giving a little extra payout rate seems good. At the end of the day though, merge mining won't be enough for these machines to have reasonable ROI anyway. I guess OP's idea was to maximize the earning for a fast ROI with merge mining. It would only cut a week in a year long ROI.

It's funny how Bitmain markets the miner for "home miners" while those are the ones with the highest electricity fees. They should rather market them as "hobby miners".

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