Instawallet claim process

[narayan]

No, Paymium is pocketing your coins. That's how they make money from Instawallet.

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[ddrews]

No, Paymium is pocketing your coins. That's how they make money from Instawallet.

Thanks for your input, but I respectfully hope you're misinformed and I'll reserve judgement for now. Still have hope these guys will find the kindness to help me out, I'm encouraged by people in this thread having their coins returned eventually, though I haven't read through this thread extensively.

[MPOE-PR]

Hi Davout and Boussac

Is there any chance of helping somebody out that missed the opportunity to file a claim? I stupidly mistook the final date for the claims process, and due to circumstances I won't bore you with, I missed my chance. I'm sure you're busy and I appreciate the lengths you are going to to return the funds to all your users, but any assistance you could provide me would be greatly appreciated. I would very much like to get all my coins back.

Thank you kindly.

I was waiting for this one.

OP, here's why it's not a good idea for them to help you: if they blow their own cutoff in this case, one could argue they should break it in any ulterior case on the precedent. In which case having a fixed cut-off would become a pointless exercise.

Not having a fixed cut-off however is an impossibility, as it'd expose them to what's practically infinite liability, and nobody can ever undertake infinite liability.

So, the only logical thing for them to do is not help you. Doing anything else is actually bad for everyone.

[tvbcof]

Hi Davout and Boussac

Is there any chance of helping somebody out that missed the opportunity to file a claim? I stupidly mistook the final date for the claims process, and due to circumstances I won't bore you with, I missed my chance. I'm sure you're busy and I appreciate the lengths you are going to to return the funds to all your users, but any assistance you could provide me would be greatly appreciated. I would very much like to get all my coins back.

Thank you kindly.

I was waiting for this one.

OP, here's why it's not a good idea for them to help you: if they blow their own cutoff in this case, one could argue they should break it in any ulterior case on the precedent. In which case having a fixed cut-off would become a pointless exercise.

Not having a fixed cut-off however is an impossibility, as it'd expose them to what's practically infinite liability, and nobody can ever undertake infinite liability.

So, the only logical thing for them to do is not help you. Doing anything else is actually bad for everyone.

I have to agree with this.  As a group, we should be ultra-thankful that Bitcoin-Central performed well on formulating a workable reconciliation process and making so many people whole (in BTC terms.)  There was always going to be 'dust' and occasional 'clumps' of value left to sweep up.  Whether by accident or design, the rightful recipients of this value is Bitcoin-Central, and it would be a huge can of worms to modify their reconciliation rules which were quite fair and reasonably well communicated.  IMHO.

What remains to be seen is how much transparency Bitcoin-Central employs in dealing with the 'dust' and the other aspects of this crime.  They have the ability to provide useful information and actions which would benefit the Bitcoin ecosystem at large through the next year or so.  I personally believe that efforts to do so will be a big factor in their failure or success as a for-profit organization.

[giszmo]

Hi Davout and Boussac

Is there any chance of helping somebody out that missed the opportunity to file a claim? I stupidly mistook the final date for the claims process, and due to circumstances I won't bore you with, I missed my chance. I'm sure you're busy and I appreciate the lengths you are going to to return the funds to all your users, but any assistance you could provide me would be greatly appreciated. I would very much like to get all my coins back.

Thank you kindly.

I was waiting for this one.

OP, here's why it's not a good idea for them to help you: if they blow their own cutoff in this case, one could argue they should break it in any ulterior case on the precedent. In which case having a fixed cut-off would become a pointless exercise.

Not having a fixed cut-off however is an impossibility, as it'd expose them to what's practically infinite liability, and nobody can ever undertake infinite liability.

So, the only logical thing for them to do is not help you. Doing anything else is actually bad for everyone.

I totally disagree. They promised a long time ago upon me asking what their policy regarding long time liability is that they would send all the coins into their respective brain wallets if ever they go out of business (instawallet.com/w/longlongstring -> brainwallet(longlongstring)). With the leak this would be kind of giving the money to the thiefs and not be a fair game as apparently by far not all addresses have been compromised and officially telling us "first come, first serve" would just swap them stealing all remaining funds for eventually some other thief stealing some of the funds or maybe them stealing them with plausible deniability.

For me a fair alternative would be after evaluating all legal risks to put the remaining coins that I expect to be thousands into a wallet that has to be managed in some way by them or by other trusted members of the community. There are no storage costs and charging a recovery-fee would be fine with me. Imagine bitpay getting the wallet and for an easy recovery they charge $10. If you are the first to ask for the money they take your ID to detect people trying to empty wallets that are not theirs en mass and just send you the money. 10$ would be a good compensation for some minutes of work. All the 0.001Ƀ holders might cry about a $10 fee but they didn't bother reclaiming their money yet and will pay lawyers $1000s later on when they find out that their former dust … hey! They stole my millions!

[phelix]

Hi Davout and Boussac

Is there any chance of helping somebody out that missed the opportunity to file a claim? I stupidly mistook the final date for the claims process, and due to circumstances I won't bore you with, I missed my chance. I'm sure you're busy and I appreciate the lengths you are going to to return the funds to all your users, but any assistance you could provide me would be greatly appreciated. I would very much like to get all my coins back.

Thank you kindly.

I was waiting for this one.

OP, here's why it's not a good idea for them to help you: if they blow their own cutoff in this case, one could argue they should break it in any ulterior case on the precedent. In which case having a fixed cut-off would become a pointless exercise.

Not having a fixed cut-off however is an impossibility, as it'd expose them to what's practically infinite liability, and nobody can ever undertake infinite liability.

So, the only logical thing for them to do is not help you. Doing anything else is actually bad for everyone.

Why not keep paying out in rounds until all coins are gone with taking cuts on each round? Why should they simply pocket the remaining coins?

E.g.:
round 0:  0% cut
round 1: 10% cut
round 3: 20% cut
round 4: 40% cut
round 5: 80% cut

All coins gone or after round 5 --> fín

[giszmo]

Hi Davout and Boussac

Is there any chance of helping somebody out that missed the opportunity to file a claim? I stupidly mistook the final date for the claims process, and due to circumstances I won't bore you with, I missed my chance. I'm sure you're busy and I appreciate the lengths you are going to to return the funds to all your users, but any assistance you could provide me would be greatly appreciated. I would very much like to get all my coins back.

Thank you kindly.

I was waiting for this one.

OP, here's why it's not a good idea for them to help you: if they blow their own cutoff in this case, one could argue they should break it in any ulterior case on the precedent. In which case having a fixed cut-off would become a pointless exercise.

Not having a fixed cut-off however is an impossibility, as it'd expose them to what's practically infinite liability, and nobody can ever undertake infinite liability.

So, the only logical thing for them to do is not help you. Doing anything else is actually bad for everyone.

Why not keep paying out in rounds until all coins are gone with taking cuts on each round? Why should they simply pocket the remaining coins?

E.g.:
round 0:  0% cut
round 1: 10% cut
round 3: 20% cut
round 4: 40% cut
round 5: 80% cut

All coins gone or after round 5 --> fín

Because the deal was a different one when people trusted them with their money, so changing the deal now without letting the user know (and due to the lack of any contact data, there is no way of letting the user know that will reach all) will always bare the risk of people rightfully demanding their money back later. I did not share my credentials with nobody. They did, so who is to blame if people take my money? Why not make these rounds 1s long each? Cause it is an arbitrary change of rule without the consent of the people you steal money from this way.
The $10 fee I suggested neither is part of the rules people accepted when putting money with instawallet and people might be able to legally demand these fees back but nobody would bother and so the claims process could be design cost neutral to whoever runs it forever. Nobody asks -> no work and no storing costs. Somebody asks -> somebody will be paid to deal with it.

[wordofmouth]

1 confirmation and counting.

Thank you Boussac, Davout and the team. I honestly didn't expect to get all my coins back when this happened and you have done what you said you would do whilst dealing with some pretty angry people.

Massive respect for everything you have done. It could not have been easy.

Congrats Happy end for you but i assume there are many other left on the road.

i have been waiting and checking my mailbox all these weeks but I still have some missing wallets.
Most of them were already missing from the Instawallet Claim system already so I imagine they are investigating on these.

Some infos would be nice though. Do you guys @ Paymium have any sort of access to these wallets ? Can you check if they are still in your offline site, what's their balance, the ip they've been created through etc. Those infos could be crucial to eliminate who is impersonating real wallets holders.
 
I remember Boussac at some point in this thread posted about a form to fill for missing wallets.
Where is the work at on that front ?

Thank You,
Wordofmouth

[phelix]

Hi Davout and Boussac

Is there any chance of helping somebody out that missed the opportunity to file a claim? I stupidly mistook the final date for the claims process, and due to circumstances I won't bore you with, I missed my chance. I'm sure you're busy and I appreciate the lengths you are going to to return the funds to all your users, but any assistance you could provide me would be greatly appreciated. I would very much like to get all my coins back.

Thank you kindly.

I was waiting for this one.

OP, here's why it's not a good idea for them to help you: if they blow their own cutoff in this case, one could argue they should break it in any ulterior case on the precedent. In which case having a fixed cut-off would become a pointless exercise.

Not having a fixed cut-off however is an impossibility, as it'd expose them to what's practically infinite liability, and nobody can ever undertake infinite liability.

So, the only logical thing for them to do is not help you. Doing anything else is actually bad for everyone.

Why not keep paying out in rounds until all coins are gone with taking cuts on each round? Why should they simply pocket the remaining coins?

E.g.:
round 0:  0% cut
round 1: 10% cut
round 3: 20% cut
round 4: 40% cut
round 5: 80% cut

All coins gone or after round 5 --> fín

Because the deal was a different one when people trusted them with their money, so changing the deal now without letting the user know (and due to the lack of any contact data, there is no way of letting the user know that will reach all) will always bare the risk of people rightfully demanding their money back later. I did not share my credentials with nobody. They did, so who is to blame if people take my money? Why not make these rounds 1s long each? Cause it is an arbitrary change of rule without the consent of the people you steal money from this way.
The $10 fee I suggested neither is part of the rules people accepted when putting money with instawallet and people might be able to legally demand these fees back but nobody would bother and so the claims process could be design cost neutral to whoever runs it forever. Nobody asks -> no work and no storing costs. Somebody asks -> somebody will be paid to deal with it.

I think of it as an ordered insolvency. It's just a question of how to do it in a fair way for both sides. Pocketing unclaimed coins does not seem fair to me. On the other hand side I can very well understand they want to get closure at some point.

[FeedbackLoop]

Just to say that I also received all the (mili)BTC I had in instawallet.

[NLCOINER]

Hi Davout and Boussac

Is there any chance of helping somebody out that missed the opportunity to file a claim? I stupidly mistook the final date for the claims process, and due to circumstances I won't bore you with, I missed my chance. I'm sure you're busy and I appreciate the lengths you are going to to return the funds to all your users, but any assistance you could provide me would be greatly appreciated. I would very much like to get all my coins back.

Thank you kindly.

Im in exactly the same position! I have sent both Boussac and Arsy a PM but no reply from either. I would like to get my BTC back. I have proof of ownership. Could one of you two please contact me.

Waiting for a reply from either one of you.

Kind regards

ps. ddrews, have you heard anything?

[steelboy]

I have now received confirmation that the last wallet I am yet to receive was one of the wallets emptied by the hacker/hackers before the site went offline.

I have tried to reply to the email twice now to see what can be done about this but have had no response.

The way i see it is if there are any funds left over from lost/forgotten wallets these should go towards cases like mine. Is this something you are considering?

Thanks

[phelix]

Hi Davout and Boussac

Is there any chance of helping somebody out that missed the opportunity to file a claim? I stupidly mistook the final date for the claims process, and due to circumstances I won't bore you with, I missed my chance. I'm sure you're busy and I appreciate the lengths you are going to to return the funds to all your users, but any assistance you could provide me would be greatly appreciated. I would very much like to get all my coins back.

Thank you kindly.

Im in exactly the same position! I have sent both Boussac and Arsy a PM but no reply from either. I would like to get my BTC back. I have proof of ownership. Could one of you two please contact me.

Waiting for a reply from either one of you.

Kind regards

ps. ddrews, have you heard anything?

?

[Boussac]

UPDATE

The fifth payout batch was sent today. Tx ID is

'ab6bcf2f9cb4019fae464a9c5adc741403deb163faae93c12272979ea99dca6a'.

Next payout date is Friday, August 30.

[steelboy]

UPDATE

The fifth payout batch was sent today. Tx ID is

'ab6bcf2f9cb4019fae464a9c5adc741403deb163faae93c12272979ea99dca6a'.

Next payout date is Friday, August 30.

Hi Pierre

Just wondered how you can post that on here without responding to the previous messages and questions aimed at you?

I (and many others) have asked a direct question to you and your team, to not answer it and just ignore it is a little rude. 

[Boussac]

UPDATE

The fifth payout batch was sent today. Tx ID is

'ab6bcf2f9cb4019fae464a9c5adc741403deb163faae93c12272979ea99dca6a'.

Next payout date is Friday, August 30.

Hi Pierre

Just wondered how you can post that on here without responding to the previous messages and questions aimed at you?

I (and many others) have asked a direct question to you and your team, to not answer it and just ignore it is a little rude.  

Hi James,
I am not sure if this conversation belongs to an open Fourm or PM but since your are here, I'll go for it, no problem.
That's right, it was rude of me to think about taking a few days off without responding to the dozens of messages I receive on this Forum.
It's not even vacation, since I am not paid to do what I do for Instawallet.
Now I recall that you questionned me about a claim for a wallet showing a near zero balance: no , I will not respond personnally to this type of inquiry, even if that means being rude.
When you claimed several wallets showing a significant, positive balance, I recall sending you the corresponding payouts.
You wrote that you did not withdraw the money: I may believe you because you sound like an honest person but I have no proof of that.
I have no proof either that you deposited the money.
If you can supply cryptographic evidence of the transactions at boussac.75011@gmail.com I will take a serious look at it when I get to it (i.e be patient).


EDIT: removed reference to amount of previous payouts to Steelboy at the request of Steelboy

[steelboy]

Ok, a response is a good start.

Firstly and above all, actually declaring how many BTC I received is pretty unprofessional. I can't believe for a second that you actually thought i wouldn't mind about that. Please edit your post. (If a mod can do it that would be great)

Secondly, I have tried emailing, and PMing you and your team. It's not just you so don't get all defensive about it it's just that you popped up on here. I actually received an email from Richard Caetano on the 13th August, (you, Davout & Grandval were all copied in), stating that this wallet had been confirmed as emptied out by the hacker. I replied immediately, (and then again after a week or so when i received no response), but still no reply. I did consider ringing you but thought that might be a little inappropriate.

Now you are suggesting that you have no proof I deposited the money. How about all the same proof that i used to prove all the other wallets that I held with you were mine. Nothing was different with any of them. If i proved that the others were mine (which i did as you returned the funds), then i proved that was mine also. Now if you have agreed that the hacker cleared my wallet it's all very simple.

My suggestion is that if there are funds left over from the payout process, (which i am sure there are based on the fact that I am sure I am not the only one who lost a URL during their time using instawallet), you should repay me. Asking me for more cryptographic proof now is a blatantly obvious way of trying to make it impossible for me to get what is rightfully mine.

Please enjoy your 'vacation' but if you or your team feel like responding that would be ideal

[Boussac]

Asking me for more cryptographic proof now is a blatantly obvious way of trying to make it impossible for me to get what is rightfully mine.

I am not asking for "more" proof since I have received none whatsoever. I am asking for A proof.

if you did not send any proof, that may be beause it does not exist, in which case it is only responsible to safeguard the interest of the company against an unjustified demand.

The balance of your claim is zero.

I am sorry if someone said they have a proof you did not empty the wallet, I have yet to see the proof.
I am asking for a proof like a signed message with a signature using the private key of one of the funding addresses.
Then, as a second step, we will search for a proof of you not empying the wallet.
Please use contact@paymium.com when sending evidence.
Due to a lack of resources, I will not respond to anymore of your numerous messages (including txt messages on my cell phone) until I receive such evidence.

[steelboy]

I literally can't believe your response.

Throughout the whole process I have been fair and patient. You on the other hand have been less than communicative and have angered many people. (Most of which I have tried to placate as i felt you were doing your best)

I claimed for my wallets using your process that you put in place. This process was designed to prove that the wallets people claim for are rightfully theirs. I proved to you that the wallets I claimed for were mine.

I then received an email from Richard Caetano on your team. This email had you CC'd in. The contents of the email are very clear.

"Hello,

I'm writing in regards to your last wallet.  We have identified it as one of the wallets that the hacker emptied out.  We have reported this information to the French police's cyber-crime unit.

If you would like to report this to your local authorities we can certainly provide them information on the hack.  Here's the claim from that wallet for future reference"

I instantly replied and then again a week later as i had no response. After seeing you posted on the forum last night i thought i would take the opportunity to try and reach you while you were online and you respond by posting my personal info on the forum. You justify this by saying if I didnt want to get public I should use PM even though this is the thread that you have specifically said any comments or questions should be directed to.

I really am amazed that you are behaving in this way.

[BCB]

Come on Girls.  Take it off line.   He's got work to do and I still haven't received a pay out.