Instawallet claim process

[steelboy]

Can I just ask, (and please don't take offence), if this is your only forum account Pyedpyper?

It's just that with your post count it seems that you have only registered for discussion on this subject. Now, if you are just a lurker who felt could lend an experienced hand to some worried people then great.

Just wondered if you would be kind enough to explain your background.

FWIW I think you are legit just feeling extra cautious regarding what i do now

[1714521171]

1714521171

[steelboy]

If you felt moved to pay them a visit and have a face to face conversation that may be very useful. Truth is made more plain in that circumstance. Do you have coin in Instawallet personally?

I've never have any coin on Instawallet. I only have a few coins at bitcoin-central and right now it looks like they are still here (I didn't try to move them, though). So my implication regarding Instawallet will be limited.

My feeling is to remain in a position of "good faith" and file nothing yet, while giving Paymium a clear opportunity to give solid and verifiable information that we can all trust. I really think they should have that opportunity.

IANAL, but my gut sense is that it would be counter-productive to take any actions which could in any way be construed or framed as harassment or intimidation.  Such a thing could come back to bite one on the ass in the unfortunate event that it is necessary to move this through the legal system.

Reporting a theft will do no harm to Paymium as long as you don't accuse them of the theft. If you are a victim of a theft you are allowed to complain and file a "plainte contre X" (meaning you don't know who stole you and ask the police to find it). If you get your coins back later you just have to inform the police that you are no longer a "partie civile" and the police will continue its investigations with or without you.

Worse, if the Paymium crew turn out to be the perps and end up on the wrong side of some fellow criminal's actions I personally would want nothing whatsoever to drag me into a now greatly expended investigation.

I believe that if they had any intent to leave with the money they would not have reopen bitcoin-central.net today.


Another information for everybody : the "class actions" that exist in some countries do not exist in France. Every victim has to declare itself separatly for his case to be looked upon. It can be a copy/paste from the same document but it still needs to be sent individually.

By the way : is there any french victim of the problem ? It may help to seek help from a consumer's association...

Aaah, that's interesting about the class actions. I had considered that is where we might be heading.

[pyedpyper]

It just dawned on me that it may be pretty easy and effective to retain the services of a qualified attorney or para-legal via the 'services' section of this forum to at least lodge an initial complaint should Paymium or their attorneys fail to provide a satisfactory response.  And pay for such services in BTC.

My feeling is that it would be fine to start right now to solicit bids for such services in case they are needed, and to better understand what the requirements of the effected parties might be (notarized letters, etc.)  Ideally I would like to have something going into the French legal system by Friday.

I just about tapped out a OP on the 'services' section just now, but figured I'd see if anyone here had any suggestions or wished to work on the text.  ~pyedpyper, for instance, writes in a particularly clear way.

The threat of legal action may or may not speed things up.

I share that concern - and in fact legal action may even slow things down (assuming Paymium are straight) as they would need to harness additional resources to deal with the legal attack.

However I think it is good for them to know that the threat of legal action (both criminal and civil) is very real if they do not get professional very quickly. If they have any desire to keep Paymium running as an ongoing business with some credibility in the Bitcoin community then they know that multiple criminal and civil cases (with all the associated bad press) are going to be very bad for business.

Hopefully they will respond to that basic understanding, and take this opportunity to demonstrate their bona fides and genuinely re-assure Instawallet account holders that all is well. I am happy to accept that the perception being created is not how it is. But perceptions are powerful and they need to manage them or they will be taken to be real and acted upon.

[pyedpyper]

Can I just ask, (and please don't take offence), if this is your only forum account Pyedpyper?

It's just that with your post count it seems that you have only registered for discussion on this subject. Now, if you are just a lurker who felt could lend an experienced hand to some worried people then great.

Just wondered if you would be kind enough to explain your background.

FWIW I think you are legit just feeling extra cautious regarding what i do now

No offense taken

This is my only forum account. I don't normally spend time on forums unless I have some specific reason for it. I had some questions sometime last year about Bitcoin technicalities so created an account and asked them. Since then I've not been on the forum. I only came on again now to discuss the Instawallet issue. And had to make some random posts in the Newbie section to get to be able to post on the main boards....

[pyedpyper]

It just dawned on me that it may be pretty easy and effective to retain the services of a qualified attorney or para-legal via the 'services' section of this forum to at least lodge an initial complaint should Paymium or their attorneys fail to provide a satisfactory response.  And pay for such services in BTC.

My feeling is that it would be fine to start right now to solicit bids for such services in case they are needed, and to better understand what the requirements of the effected parties might be (notarized letters, etc.)  Ideally I would like to have something going into the French legal system by Friday.

I just about tapped out a OP on the 'services' section just now, but figured I'd see if anyone here had any suggestions or wished to work on the text.  ~pyedpyper, for instance, writes in a particularly clear way.

I agree to prepare now for action on Friday should this be required.

I am hoping/trusting that Paymium are intelligent though and take steps to avert this.

The initial scope of work I'm envisioning is simply to submit an effective police report (and again, only if it cannot be demonstrated convincingly that it has not already been done.)

It sounds like you have much more legal experience than I...and your losses were more significant as well.  Would you like to drive the set-up?  I'll send a private PM as well.

Agreed.

I have some legal experience. Not tons but enough to be a able to see if a process is going in the right direction or not. Let's see how Boussac responds over the next couple of days and use that to make further decisions. I am happy to be a part of any process that results in this getting sorted - but be good to do that as part of a co-ordinated team.

[tvbcof]

It may be good to have some screen caps or cache copies of the more recent (pre-hack) Instawallet pages demonstrating that Instawallet was being advertised as associated with 'Paymium' I believe it was.  Or 'Paytunia' perhaps.  Don't recall.  I don't remember noticing it missing last time I used the site, but cannot say 100% that I looked.  I had taken note of it before, and it played a part in my deciding how much to use the solution.

Unfortunately I've cleared the cache on the machine I am using at the moment.  And archive.org doesn't have it.  I actually don't have a lot of experience or knowledge about either digging through my cache or using whatever way-back machines may exist.

[pyedpyper]

If you felt moved to pay them a visit and have a face to face conversation that may be very useful. Truth is made more plain in that circumstance. Do you have coin in Instawallet personally?

I've never have any coin on Instawallet. I only have a few coins at bitcoin-central and right now it looks like they are still here (I didn't try to move them, though). So my implication regarding Instawallet will be limited.

My feeling is to remain in a position of "good faith" and file nothing yet, while giving Paymium a clear opportunity to give solid and verifiable information that we can all trust. I really think they should have that opportunity.

IANAL, but my gut sense is that it would be counter-productive to take any actions which could in any way be construed or framed as harassment or intimidation.  Such a thing could come back to bite one on the ass in the unfortunate event that it is necessary to move this through the legal system.

Reporting a theft will do no harm to Paymium as long as you don't accuse them of the theft. If you are a victim of a theft you are allowed to complain and file a "plainte contre X" (meaning you don't know who stole you and ask the police to find it). If you get your coins back later you just have to inform the police that you are no longer a "partie civile" and the police will continue its investigations with or without you.

Worse, if the Paymium crew turn out to be the perps and end up on the wrong side of some fellow criminal's actions I personally would want nothing whatsoever to drag me into a now greatly expended investigation.

I believe that if they had any intent to leave with the money they would not have reopen bitcoin-central.net today.


Another information for everybody : the "class actions" that exist in some countries do not exist in France. Every victim has to declare itself separatly for his case to be looked upon. It can be a copy/paste from the same document but it still needs to be sent individually.

By the way : is there any french victim of the problem ? It may help to seek help from a consumer's association...

Really appreciate your input. Thank you

Would you be open to visiting Paymium to see what information can be obtained? I'm sure there are enough of us who could chip in to compensate you for your time. I would think that ideally a formal meeting should be had with one of their directors. Let me know. Personally I would prefer not to fly to Paris right now...

[pyedpyper]

It may be good to have some screen caps or cache copies of the more recent (pre-hack) Instawallet pages demonstrating that Instawallet was being advertised as associated with 'Paymium' I believe it was.  Or 'Paytunia' perhaps.  Don't recall.  I don't remember noticing it missing last time I used the site, but cannot say 100% that I looked.  I had taken note of it before, and it played a part in my deciding how much to use the solution.

Unfortunately I've cleared the cache on the machine I am using at the moment.  And archive.org doesn't have it.  I actually don't have a lot of experience or knowledge about either digging through my cache or using whatever way-back machines may exist.

I have screenshots of fucking everything

[pyedpyper]

I will not be online for most of the rest of the day.

If Boussac is seen online at any time could someone please let me know here.

I need to know if any non-response is due to him not being online or due to him choosing not to respond.

Thanks

[steelboy]

It may be good to have some screen caps or cache copies of the more recent (pre-hack) Instawallet pages demonstrating that Instawallet was being advertised as associated with 'Paymium' I believe it was.  Or 'Paytunia' perhaps.  Don't recall.  I don't remember noticing it missing last time I used the site, but cannot say 100% that I looked.  I had taken note of it before, and it played a part in my deciding how much to use the solution.

Unfortunately I've cleared the cache on the machine I am using at the moment.  And archive.org doesn't have it.  I actually don't have a lot of experience or knowledge about either digging through my cache or using whatever way-back machines may exist.

I have screenshots of fucking everything

Nice.

[TheButterZone]

It may be good to have some screen caps or cache copies of the more recent (pre-hack) Instawallet pages demonstrating that Instawallet was being advertised as associated with 'Paymium' I believe it was.  Or 'Paytunia' perhaps.  Don't recall.  I don't remember noticing it missing last time I used the site, but cannot say 100% that I looked.  I had taken note of it before, and it played a part in my deciding how much to use the solution.

Unfortunately I've cleared the cache on the machine I am using at the moment.  And archive.org doesn't have it.  I actually don't have a lot of experience or knowledge about either digging through my cache or using whatever way-back machines may exist.

I have screenshots of fucking everything

EVERYTHING? You must be sore.

[crazy_rabbit]

Dear Boussac,

.........
Sincerely,

PyedPyper

As thoughtful as this letter is- it might not be possible for them to answer. Even if there had been no funny-business any legitimate company would hire a lawyer that would advise answering none of these questions. What if they were to answer you wrongly about one of these questions? Perhaps just from not 100% understanding the situation? You or someone else would turn around and go after them about that later.

It's a legitimate letter, but I think any lawyer would advise "no comment". It's just too risky to tell you the truth- innocent or not. Indeed, perhaps the things you point out in your letter about their "50BTC" limit, or "first come first serve" might be the result of them trying to come up with a clear, concise, and honest communication to the community, as quick as possible, the only result of which is more accusations and mistrust.

This is true, and is a good point.  In that case I would expect the lawyer to draft the response or at the very least to give verifiable evidence that the matter is being perused with the utmost professionalism and in a way that would be most likely to result in a resolution which is favorable to the effected parties.  Failing that, it is completely reasonable to expect at some fraction of effected customers will do everything in their power to achieve an outcome which is in their best interests, and in doing so could add inefficiency to what could otherwise be a more smooth process.

Exactly.

True. That would be the best solution, to have a law firm take over communication.

[Iman E. Vilsok]

...
If Boussac is seen online at any time could someone please let me know here.
...

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s204/lonelylawdog/SmilingFrog.gif

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I will not be online for most of the rest of the day.

If Boussac is seen online at any time could someone please let me know here.

I need to know if any non-response is due to him not being online or due to him choosing not to respond.

Thanks

He was online, but I guess he's taking lessons from Jody.

[steelboy]

Boussac.

Any more news?

[AndreyE]

so has the process started?

[Boussac]

UPDATE

We are currently developing and preparing the online claim form.  
We appreciate your patience as we work with limited resources.  
We regret not being able to do more as Instawallet was a free service (zero fees) and could not pay for additional resources.  
However, we would like to reassure you that we will have the claims processed in due time, by the end of the initial 90-day period.  
The claim form is schedule for delivery by Friday, April 12th.

[pyedpyper]

Thanks for the update Boussac.

I trust you read my earlier post and received my PM with the 12 questions I would appreciate you answering (and which I also emailed to M. Grandval via your company web address).

Please understand that while we all accept that you have limited resources and you are dealing with a challenge, there is a real concern regarding Paymium's integrity at this point specifically due to the fact that so many key questions posted on this forum have been completely ignored.

I hope that you will take the time to recognize the gravity of this moment and respond to them directly.

Personally I do not yet feel re-assured, and will, regrettably, be taking further action (via the consular route) on Friday should no adequate response be forthcoming.

I am not saying this as a threat, but merely a statement of intention. It is my sincere desire that none of this will be necessary. All that is required on your part is to understand that many people here require more explanation. That you are not giving it is creating the perception that Paymium (and its officers) are not being entirely straight here.

For the sake of the efficiency of the claims process, and for the long term good standing of Paymium in the eyes of the Bitcoin community, I really hope that you will respond appropriately.

Best wishes,

PyedPyper

[Herodes]

UPDATE

We are currently developing and preparing the online claim form. 
We appreciate your patience as we work with limited resources. 
We regret not being able to do more as Instawallet was a free service (zero fees) and could not pay for additional resources. 
However, we would like to reassure you that we will have the claims processed in due time, by the end of the initial 90-day period. 
The claim form is schedule for delivery by Friday, April 12th.

Any particular reason you will not handle claims on an ongoing basis. Did you at all read my post ?

There are absolutely no excuses at this point, your reputation is at stake. Personally, at this point, I will not use or recommend any services that you're involved in.

Watching.

[steelboy]

UPDATE

We are currently developing and preparing the online claim form. 
We appreciate your patience as we work with limited resources. 
We regret not being able to do more as Instawallet was a free service (zero fees) and could not pay for additional resources. 
However, we would like to reassure you that we will have the claims processed in due time, by the end of the initial 90-day period. 
The claim form is schedule for delivery by Friday, April 12th.

Given that you have a pool of 42,000 of our BTC how about you put a little more effort in and try and calm some of your customers fears.   

Have you, (or your lawyers), even looked at our questions?

GIVE YOUR CUSTOMERS SOME RESPECT.