Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[KS]

ORSoc has 4 locations in Sweden, though their head office is in Stockholm which is where Andreas and Sam are based, from what I understand.

You're on first name basis now?

They don't have the cap to order and manufacture. ORSoC probably does but my guess is they will only take preorders...hence KnC will need to pay them upfront. (KnC being the fall guy in case things go south)

If someone can point me to a proper site where I can pull their official paperwork (Swedish OK)...

[1714107147]

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[Bitcoinorama]

I *think someone posted a link on this thread, but yeesh wouldn't know where to begin looking.

If I remember it was in Swedish.

[KS]

I *think someone posted a link on this thread, but yeesh wouldn't know where to begin looking.

If I remember it was in Swedish.

Thanks, I really wanted to read the other 50 pages before dinner

[Bitcoinorama]

Haha most of those are in English, if that helps?

[mokahless]

Water cooled setup.

This is the single reason I doubt the company so far. It sounds like a way to get people excited but is expensive and serves no real advantage cost-efficiency wise.

It also introduces complexity and additional failure points as well as adding additional maintenance for the customer. From a business standpoint, I cannot see this as a logical choice.

[Bitcoinorama]

Water cooled setup.

This is the single reason I doubt the company so far. It sounds like a way to get people excited but is expensive and serves no real advantage cost-efficiency wise.

It also introduces complexity and additional failure points as well as adding additional maintenance for the customer. From a business standpoint, I cannot see this as a logical choice.

They are modders and are clocking the chips for better performance. When I queried about clocking possibilities with water cooling they said they were already doing this stock, it's feasible owners could crank more, but it would invalidate the warranty as they will take it as far as they deem comfortable.

At the end of the day ORSoC will determine yes that's possible, or no that's not.

Pretty sure it would have been shot down in flames at the suggestion if it wasn't.

[KS]

Haha most of those are in English, if that helps?

There's your SE VAT, direct fro the horse's mouth (ok, maybe 30 pages late...)

http://www.verksamt.se/portal/en_GB/web/international/running/vat

[Bitcoinorama]

Haha most of those are in English, if that helps?

There's your SE VAT, direct fro the horse's mouth (ok, maybe 30 pages late...)

http://www.verksamt.se/portal/en_GB/web/international/running/vat

Great find!

[KS]

So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count ).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

There is also a change in the certificate of registration made on April 18th, 2013 but I'm not sure what. Kncminer is a secondary name (ie. like "doing business as").

Too soon to be really interesting...

[Bitcoinorama]

So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count ).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

Is that not stating the bleeding obvious? I mean they're forming now to create a variety of miners (and some other things), so obv no annual report, and the reason they partnered with ORSoC is self explanatory.

A&S are systems architects / software engineers though.

All have personal interests in Bitcoin and mined prior themselves.

[KS]

So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count ).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

Is that not stating the bleeding obvious? I mean they're forming now to create a variety of miners (and some other things), so obv no annual report, and the reason they partnered with ORSoC is self explanatory.

A&S are systems architects / software engineers though.

All have personal interests in Bitcoin and mined prior themselves.

Yes and no. It means they don't have the financial strength to NOT have pre-paying customers, which makes them a riskier investment.

I have not problem with ppl starting a company in their garage, but, from what I understand of ASIC development, you need a certain level of funding that they don't have.

Of course, I'm not privvy to their agreement with ORSoC, but I doubt ORSoC will invest too much in the project. I would think they accepted to put their name on this project in return for a share of the retail profits (and so they're not just the ODM), but I also expect them to limit their investment to "consulting" and that KnC will need to fund the BOM.

Speculation, speculation.

[Bitcoinorama]

So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count ).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

Is that not stating the bleeding obvious? I mean they're forming now to create a variety of miners (and some other things), so obv no annual report, and the reason they partnered with ORSoC is self explanatory.

A&S are systems architects / software engineers though.

All have personal interests in Bitcoin and mined prior themselves.

Yes and no. It means they don't have the financial strength to NOT have pre-paying customers, which makes them a riskier investment.

I have not problem with ppl starting a company in their garage, but, from what I understand of ASIC development, you need a certain level of funding that they don't have.

Of course, I'm not privvy to their agreement with ORSoC, but I doubt ORSoC will invest too much in the project. I would think they accepted to put their name on this project in return for a share of the retail profits (and so they're not just the ODM), but I also expect them to limit their investment to "consulting" and that KnC will need to fund the BOM.

Speculation, speculation.

Shouldn't be any speculation.

They said they need pre-orders, but can develop an FPGA without them, so will sell the FPGA to raise initial investment so they can develop the ASICs. The initial investors get first orders of the ASIC monster and $2k off the $7k price for being early adopters that supported them.

ORSoC have the means to produce prototypes in house, so it should be hard to demonstrate a working model, which is what everybody wants for confidence.

My suggestion is just that if you're going to build a 6gh/s FPGA, it may as well be for Litecoin mining, as it will have such a minimal finite life and hardly reach ROI mining Bitcoin, whereas for Litecoin, it gives them the credibility to be the first to develop this whilst significantly better ROI for their early adopters.

[KS]

So, like I said, it's a small operation with low capital and really only K and C at the helm (spouses and siblings don't count ).

Company is barely a year old and hasn't filed an annual report yet for 2012 (maybe they can merge the first year with the second one as in some other countries, I don't know).

So the muscle will really come from ORSoC...

Is that not stating the bleeding obvious? I mean they're forming now to create a variety of miners (and some other things), so obv no annual report, and the reason they partnered with ORSoC is self explanatory.

A&S are systems architects / software engineers though.

All have personal interests in Bitcoin and mined prior themselves.

Yes and no. It means they don't have the financial strength to NOT have pre-paying customers, which makes them a riskier investment.

I have not problem with ppl starting a company in their garage, but, from what I understand of ASIC development, you need a certain level of funding that they don't have.

Of course, I'm not privvy to their agreement with ORSoC, but I doubt ORSoC will invest too much in the project. I would think they accepted to put their name on this project in return for a share of the retail profits (and so they're not just the ODM), but I also expect them to limit their investment to "consulting" and that KnC will need to fund the BOM.

Speculation, speculation.

Shouldn't be any speculation.

They said they need pre-orders, but can develop an FPGA without them, so will sell the FPGA to raise initial investment so they can develop the ASICs. The initial investors get first orders of the ASIC monster and $2k off the $7k price for being early adopters that supported them.

ORSoC have the means to produce prototypes in house, so it should be hard to demonstrate a working model, which is what everybody wants for confidence.

My suggestion is just that if you're going to build a 6gh/s FPGA, it may as well be for Litecoin mining, as it will have such a minimal finite life and hardly reach ROI mining Bitcoin, whereas for Litecoin, it gives them the credibility to be the first to develop this whilst significantly better ROI for their early adopters.

Like I said, ORSoC brings the muscle, but there is no guarantee that there will be a shipping product after the engineering samples.

I'd be much happier if ORSoC did the selling/distribution.

[dan99]

( " As you can see above, KnC does not have the intent to revise the current Mars pre-order devices to be capable LTC miners in the interest of developing rapidly and avoiding delays. Any FPGA LTC miner they would offer would be a new product to come down the road. That is to say, if nothing has changed since I received these replies. If I'm wrong, I'd hope & expect Sam will correct me here.

Despite the lack of LTC support for the FPGA, my attitude towards KnC has become increasingly optimistic. Granted they still have much to show, I empathize with their positions in what they're trying to accomplish." )

So we are not likely to see their Mars mining Litecoin and they are going to go ahead with the Mars for bitcoin at $2,795 for 6 gh/s. Probably no one will buy.. 22 Asic Chip for 6.2gh/s is only $154 plus another $100 is only $254. and probably the asic chip will arrived sooner than the Mars FPGA.

[KS]

So we are not likely to see their Mars mining Litecoin and they are going to go ahead with the Mars for bitcoin at $2,795 for 6 gh/s. Probably no one will buy.. 22 Asic Chip for 6.2gh/s is only $154 plus another $100 is only $254. and probably the asic chip will arrived sooner than the Mars FPGA.

Depends on timing. ASICs are still not shipping in volume and KnC offers a "price protection" by shaving 2K off of the Jupiter if you bought a Mars.

If you'd buy a 6GH/s GPU farm now, it would cost you more than the Mars. FPGAs still more.

It all depends how fast they can execute. I don't mind paying that price *now*. If BFL ever ships, the 6GH/s won't be interesting, but I hope KnC will be ready with the Jupiter's 250GH/s that I could buy for 5K USD.

[Bitcoinorama]

Thing is for that $2k discount you are locked in.

Should there be delays your hands are tied.

A 6gh/s bitcoin miner is unlikely to make an ROI prior to Avalon or BFL making an ROI impossible (for 2.7k), which is why an LTC FPGA would be worthwhile, it'a immune to Bitcoins imminent and rapid exponential jump in difficulty.

I understand PCB redesign to enable DDR and then software creation may take more time in itself, but those FPGA PCBs with DDR do already exist. I sent Sam links, it's not reinventing the wheel per say. If software development is the issue, I still very much want the facility to expand an 6gh/s board with DDR at a later date built in. So that investment is future proof. Or a guarantee they will transfer the chips to Version 2 board at a later date (even if that requires some additional funds). It's just that Version 1 KNC 6gh/s FPGA will be dormant very soon and that's an unnecessary waste.

Still at current face value, these guys appear super cool and very cooperative. I'm looking forward to hearing more from them (and seeing proof of what they are capable of).

If they can make their Asics super efficient with lower power requirements, water-cooled, clockable, deliver on time and blow the Avalons away, then more credit to them!

[KS]

Same as with BFL. Buy now, trade in later. Much later. Much, much later.

[Bitcoinorama]

Yifu Guo has made the Avalon PCB files open source as promised earlier today;

https://github.com/BitSyncom/avalon-ref

[premo]

so what's the predictions of members here on knc delivering Jupiter before winter starts ?

[Syke]

so what's the predictions of members here on knc delivering Jupiter before winter starts ?

Near zero, at least until they produce an FPGA miner successfully.