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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006734 times)
Bitcoinorama
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April 30, 2013, 10:50:59 PM
 #861

BFL isn't European either.

Indeed...but KNCminer are....

At the end of the day, it does not matter if your product is from europe, us or the far east, what matters
is how fast you can chunk out the product as promised.

With respect to this current scenario, agreed, though the 6gh/s FPGA made with DDR for Litecoin would make way wayyyy more sense for those investing and for KNCminer/ORSoC to produce a first to market there...for Bitcoin I fear 6gh/s is too late, esp at that price irrespective of the future discount.

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April 30, 2013, 11:19:25 PM
 #862

If KcMiner could do 6gh/s with the DDR upgrades for litecoin that would be awesome, but at this point in time the highest hashing rate in the Litecoin mining pool that I have ever seen is 133mh/s, I would grab a miner even if they could only achieved half of that hashing rate.
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April 30, 2013, 11:27:52 PM
 #863

If KcMiner could do 6gh/s with the DDR upgrades for litecoin that would be awesome, but at this point in time the highest hashing rate in the Litecoin mining pool that I have ever seen is 133mh/s, I would grab a miner even if they could only achieved half of that hashing rate.
Me, too.

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May 01, 2013, 03:05:09 AM
 #864

If KcMiner could do 6gh/s with the DDR upgrades for litecoin that would be awesome, but at this point in time the highest hashing rate in the Litecoin mining pool that I have ever seen is 133mh/s, I would grab a miner even if they could only achieved half of that hashing rate.

You sure you dont mean GH/sec?
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May 01, 2013, 03:39:41 AM
 #865

If KcMiner could do 6gh/s with the DDR upgrades for litecoin that would be awesome, but at this point in time the highest hashing rate in the Litecoin mining pool that I have ever seen is 133mh/s, I would grab a miner even if they could only achieved half of that hashing rate.

You sure you dont mean GH/sec?

nope
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May 01, 2013, 07:29:13 AM
 #866


You know what, all the talk about what companies will deliver and shit like that is nonsense now. I've never seen so much talk about shit that's supposed to happen or supposed to be made. In their newsletter it said that Jupiter would ship early Autumn, and that means in the bitcoin ASIC world late summer, next year. We would have to wait AT LEAST a solid half year for those Jupiters to be made/shipped.
Well that's the risk, ain't it. And if it pays off, the people who get their 250gh monster in August will likely look like geniuses. Or it could turn into another BFL delay fiasco and they're out serious money. But <$10k isn't a huge risk to take considering the potential payoff of 250gh/sec.

People talk about mining like the price of bitcoin is never going to increase. I don't buy that the price of bitcoin is being driven purely by press. Bitcoin's lower transaction costs constitute a compelling business proposition, which in time should equal more demand.

I think this time next year, everyone buying ASICs right now will be very happy they did so.

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May 01, 2013, 07:56:09 AM
 #867

would be awesome if kncminer could get their machines out before the Avalon DIY hit the market am sure Sam will take note of this !!
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May 01, 2013, 01:25:57 PM
 #868


You know what, all the talk about what companies will deliver and shit like that is nonsense now. I've never seen so much talk about shit that's supposed to happen or supposed to be made. In their newsletter it said that Jupiter would ship early Autumn, and that means in the bitcoin ASIC world late summer, next year. We would have to wait AT LEAST a solid half year for those Jupiters to be made/shipped.
Well that's the risk, ain't it. And if it pays off, the people who get their 250gh monster in August will likely look like geniuses. Or it could turn into another BFL delay fiasco and they're out serious money. But <$10k isn't a huge risk to take considering the potential payoff of 250gh/sec.


No it does not mean in the Bitcoin ASIC world next summer, it means early Autumn '13!

Early Autumn is August ->mid-September.

Look companies overpromising and not delivering on time is NOT standard behaviour for an industry professional. So far BFL and Avalon which appear to have set this trend have been nothing but immature hobbyist companies in their own right that stumbled upon something and got lucky with their timing, development and contacts and grown with financial backing from the bitcoin movement. Avalon's used homegrown university related contacts and BFL has for the most part used trial and error to forge relationships whilst outsourcing. It has for the most part been a lengthy itterative process as they have pioneered new product development.  In contrast KNCminer has forged a partnership with a company who already has significant experience with both FPGAs and ASICs. This is not by accident, they clearly decided to start up KNCminer knowing ORSoC existed and what they are capable of. Most of which BFL has bluffed it's way through, ORSoC in contrast, one would imagine has experience in and won't make such schoolboy errors, which is what their (BFL's) errors have been; ref. designing, finalising the design and ordering the manufacture of cases prior to having a working board is precisely that. Avalon on the other hand appear to have forged a strong link with a chip manufacturer, but appear to be struggling with the logistics or the assembly of such a bespoke product.

I would expect a known company that has actively produced similar products for a decade, such as ORSoC to be realistic as to what timescale is required and know they can accurately deliver within such a period without mucking their investor base around. BFL is very much a fledgling company, if negative PR and collective customer distrust destroys it, those involved will walk away with careers intact. Individually they are pretty much set career wise from this experience and publicity gained so far. Likewise Avalon's founder, Yifu Guo's c.v./resume sparkles from this experience becoming the first to market - he has all to gain from this venture as it stands already, whereas ORSoC potentially have nothing but damage to their reputation of their all ready established company if they string customers/investors along and fail to deliver based upon what they've achieved in the past. Remember ORSoC have declared publicly their 'partnership' with KNCminer on their own site (see link below), this is significantly more involved than purely being a third party supplier. They are putting their company's reputation on the line here by claiming direct responsibility in the form of a partnership in this project. They must be confident they will deliver as promised. They must be fully aware potential customers are less willing to forgive another company for the type of mistakes made so far and the damage mass negative PR on the internet would entail. You only have to enter "Butterfly Labs" into google to find links to pages attributing BFL to phrases such as 'scammers' and their consitstent failed promises on the first page of results! Conversely I would imagine KNCminer/ORSoC would acknowledge the potential damage to reputation and be very cautious of promising to over-deliver. Likewise if they do succeed they will forge a very profitable relationship with a solid and hungry tech community, they have all to gain for delivering on time.

Again, Andreas Kennemar and Sam Cole have been very up front as to who they are, their backgrounds are relevant and available for scrutiny. You can find who they've worked for, their associated company website (Kennemar & Cole AB), LinkedIN's, Google+, numerous web related CV's, personal Facebook pages, personal blog involving family, none of which have magically appeared in the last couple of months. They are not attempting to hide themselves.

So let's wait and see what they do promise to deliver, hopefully with a clear set of achievable targets with dates and most importantly working concepts anything until such point that is not directly from the companies themselves is pure speculation, period. Over delivery should be a product in the hands of the consumer ahead of time and with features optimised to perform beyond the initial brief.

And for the record, all those demanding they break their silence and behaving impatient, FFS they only released their intentions for two products last week! The fact they are silent since and thankfully not replying on a bulletin board means they are knocking heads and working on this I would presume. Although I do hope they follow this forum, there have been some good ideas suggested amongst the trash talk, such as a profitable Litecoin FPGA with required DDR memory to mine scrypt. Their role is to optimise return on investment and they know this is dependant on timing and intended function of the product to produce returns.

Link; http://orsoc.se/orsoc-and-kncminer-are-partnering-up-to-develop-bitcoin-mining-products/langswitch_lang/en/

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May 01, 2013, 06:09:02 PM
 #869

@bitcoinorama

The problem is orsoc is not running the show knc is. Orsoc is just designing the chips knc can still be incompetent and completely mess it up.

The only issue I have so far is they seem hell bent on creating and FGPA to gain trust, where they can very well just do that with an ASIC.

Only thing that comes to mind is they want to gain trust with an FPGA because they know they will take pre orders for ASIC and if they become delayed like BFL they can have peoples trust because they delivered FPGAs.

Come to think about it, its starting to look more like BFL lol. Hopefully ORsoc's competence rubs off.

But the company to keep track of is xcrowd however many months away they are, their business model seems extremely well thought out, and will probably be the first professional company to put these unprofessional hobbyist away.
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May 01, 2013, 06:11:39 PM
 #870

Bitcoinorama:
You make some good points, and I'm preparing money for my own KNC pre-order, so I can't say you're not preaching to the choir Tongue

Your contextualization of KNC/Orsoc as the first 'professional' ASIC producer makes sense. Especially reassuring is Orsoc's announcement of the deal:

Quote
ORSoC has started a partnership with KNCminer

KNCminer offering first class Bitcoin mining products with high performance.

In our partnership ORSoC will be responsible for product development, including design, production and testing.

Our technical expertise together with excellent vendor partnership we feel confident we quickly can design and produce an affordable high performance mining product.

It's also quite awesome to crawl their news-releases for mention of ASICs. I see at least two ASIC designers they've hired some two years ago, and they have their company-wide goal of advancing their Open-core-RISC-ASIC designs -and- flat volume pricing.

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May 01, 2013, 06:21:15 PM
 #871

@bitcoinorama

The problem is orsoc is not running the show knc is. Orsoc is just designing the chips knc can still be incompetent and completely mess it up.

The only issue I have so far is they seem hell bent on creating and FGPA to gain trust, where they can very well just do that with an ASIC.

Only thing that comes to mind is they want to gain trust with an FPGA because they know they will take pre orders for ASIC and if they become delayed like BFL they can have peoples trust because they delivered FPGAs.

Come to think about it, its starting to look more like BFL lol. Hopefully ORsoc's competence rubs off.

But the company to keep track of is xcrowd however many months away they are, their business model seems extremely well thought out, and will probably be the first professional company to put these unprofessional hobbyist away.

Appreciated Pizza, I think that ORSoC's involvement is now beyond that of supplier, there are pretty specific with the term 'partnership' that for all intensive purposes is shared liability, or they are misleading potential investors who consider ORSoC's invvement as justification to spend, despite the fact KNCminer are the one dealing directly with the customer. At the end of the day the aforementioned partnership has been announced for exactly that purpose; increase investor confidence with the shared liability of an acknowledged reputable manufacturer.

And yes the FPGA is to gain trust and raise development funds they have stated that, which is why it makes total sense to pair those FPGA chips with ram and have them mine Litecoin; lower risk for investors with increasing Bitcoin difficulty where 6Gh/s no longer cuts it yet in a currency still liquid enough to exchange for cash, bitcoin or hold as litecoin. A way more flexible alternative that satisfies everybody concerned, plus KNC/ORSoC notch a scalp being first to being new tech to the litecoin market which will do their respective companies and partnership a huge amount of credible PR, then concentrate on delivering the promised ASIC monster on time and showing competitors how it's done.

They have the advantage not only of experience, but by not repeating competitor's mistakes. I hope they use that wisely. Wink

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May 01, 2013, 06:47:28 PM
 #872

There are already 45 pages and do not see any hardware, only see words and speculation, moves the thread to the speculation subforum as with other threads within five minutes of opening?
So you stop harming actual real hardware manufacturers.
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May 01, 2013, 06:49:21 PM
 #873

There are already 45 pages and do not see any hardware, only see words and speculation, moves the thread to the speculation subforum as with other threads within five minutes of opening?
So you stop harming actual real hardware manufacturers.


Would that be real hardware manufactures like ORSoC (OpenRISC System on Chip) who have proven ASIC development experience (moreso than BFL, Avalon, bASIC, Asicminer, XCrowd combined), have a physical presence in three major European cities; Stockholm, Göteborg and Västerås and have stated on record that they are a partner in this venture??

The same ORSoC that own and run the OpenCores organization (http://opencores.org/), the world’s largest open source community whose mission is to develop and distribute open-source hardware IP cores and would, without doubt, be of huge value to the individual DIYers of Bitcointalk?

Do you really think they deserve to be removed from the custom forum subcategory, and unceremoniously dumped in the speculation forum, really?!

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May 01, 2013, 08:33:32 PM
 #874

There are already 45 pages and do not see any hardware, only see words and speculation, moves the thread to the speculation subforum as with other threads within five minutes of opening?
So you stop harming actual real hardware manufacturers.


Would that be real hardware manufactures like ORSoC (OpenRISC System on Chip) who have proven ASIC development experience (moreso than BFL, Avalon, bASIC, Asicminer, XCrowd combined), have a physical presence in three major European cities; Stockholm, Göteborg and Västerås and have stated on record that they are a partner in this venture??

The same ORSoC that own and run the OpenCores organization (http://opencores.org/), the world’s largest open source community whose mission is to develop and distribute open-source hardware IP cores and would, without doubt, be of huge value to the individual DIYers of Bitcointalk?

Do you really think they deserve to be removed from the custom forum subcategory, and unceremoniously dumped in the speculation forum, really?!

^^ lol yes because something about their website who my uncle told me about SCAM!!!! They know eachother and are friends scam!!
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May 01, 2013, 08:35:36 PM
 #875

Sorry, can we breathe and repeat with punctuation. What, exactly did your uncle tell you? and how would he know?

Where are you & he based?

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May 01, 2013, 08:58:46 PM
 #876

Sorry, can we breathe and repeat with punctuation. What, exactly did your uncle tell you? and how would he know?

Where are you & he based?

I make funnies, those are the accusations on this thread lol
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May 01, 2013, 09:15:11 PM
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I make funnies, those are the accusations on this thread lol

Super, because trolling is just what a fledgling company needs if genuine, and if prospective investors (some previously burnt) are unsure of the facts and whether they should commit.

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May 02, 2013, 01:56:43 AM
 #878

Sam, you are gonna face competition .. Avalon DIY and other wannabees coming along. Some Avalon DIY guys are buying bulk of Avalon Chips
to make clones of the Avalon Miner for re-sell.. very smart..
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May 02, 2013, 06:23:35 AM
 #879

Hi All.

It has been a while since I replied I know.
What I can say is that we ARE listening to the feedback you're all making via email/Facebook/twitter and of course here on the forum. There are some very interesting ideas floating around. We are taking note as we need to produce a product that our customers can actually use.

So we will look at producing other types of devices etc.

Sam, you are gonna face competition .. Avalon DIY and other wannabees coming along. Some Avalon DIY guys are buying bulk of Avalon Chips
to make clones of the Avalon Miner for re-sell.. very smart..

Thanks Dan we actually want to see all types of legitimate competition in the market. That puts pressure on all parties involved and should put a stop to companies treating the customers as badly as they have been treated in the past.

We are up for the challenge I can assure you all of that.

Thanks

Sam
KnCMiner
www.kncminer.com


Best regards

Kncminer

kncminer.com
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May 02, 2013, 06:42:06 AM
 #880

The FPGA would break even if KNC asked ORSoC to create an FPGA with DDR3 memory and have it mine Litecoin scrypt.



Think of it how many hashes can they do with a FPGA convert to mined litecoin? the current setting is 6gh/s for bitcoin, if it becomes
6mh/s for litecoin than it is not worth it. need to be about 30mh/s to 60mh/s or more for  litecoin mining.
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