Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[shbtc]

I had reserved a place in queue several weeks ago but no order showed on my account to pay. I emailed to the addresses on the contact page and got this reply within hours:
*****
It’s perfectly normal that you can’t see your pre-orders on the website. But once you have placed a normal order we will match up the numbers and give you the correct place in the queue based on your preregistration.

You need to make a new order and we will then honor your queue placement based on your pre-order as long as you pay before 18:00 CET on Monday when we close the 7 days payment window.
*****

Hope this helps someone.

[josh_nc]

I had reserved a place in queue several weeks ago but no order showed on my account to pay. I emailed to the addresses on the contact page and got this reply within hours:
*****
It’s perfectly normal that you can’t see your pre-orders on the website. But once you have placed a normal order we will match up the numbers and give you the correct place in the queue based on your preregistration.

You need to make a new order and we will then honor your queue placement based on your pre-order as long as you pay before 18:00 CET on Monday when we close the 7 days payment window.
*****

Hope this helps someone.

It helped me. I had the exact same question for them. Thanks!

J/

[wowc8]

Even if you have the cash, debt is a very convenient way to mitigate risk.  I've watched many investors in the last couple years successfully mitigate risk with debt in the bottom of the real-estate market and they are now cash rich millionaires.

As with any investment, you have to weigh the risk.

$7000 dollars is a very small scale in comparison, but say you had 1 mil in the bank.  Would you risk the million or borrow from a bank with only 25% down payment?  Your skin in the game is now 250k.  Much more palatable than going all in.

[Bitcoinorama]

Investment requires credit. I took a loan to buy a variety of asics. I'll either swim in Bitcoin or file bankruptcy.

Bitpop, you are the poster boy of how not to behave in this environment.

That is so incredibly irresponsible I don't know where to begin.

Risking bankruptcy is no laughing matter, and I hope someone else steps in and schools you on this matter as I very much doubt you will adhere to my words.

Bankruptcy is very, very serious and screws your credit history hard!

I've also seen you post a lot of nonsense to raise your post count and beat upon another forum member selling his pre-order for no reason than you want to troll. If this a reflection on you being young, immature, and careless; then seek professional advice on what potential bankruptcy entails for your future.

Really, really f-in stupid move. I hope anyone else considering this as par for the course in lending/borrowing money to fund speculation reads this and does not follow Bitpop's example. Google has tonnes of info on why this is very, very dumb. Moneysavingexpert.com would be an ideal place to start research, do it!

Do not put yourself into bankruptcy over what is tantamount to gambling, albeit what we hope is an educated gamble, for sure there are members here not making informed decisions, Bitpop congrats, you have just confirmed yourself as one of them...

Bargraphics, presumably has more money than sense to wire transfer $60k+, not sure what he expects as an outcome of flying to Sweden will be if this doesn't work out?! Nothing will be the likely outcome!

[Xialla]

Investment requires credit. I took a loan to buy a variety of asics. I'll either swim in Bitcoin or file bankruptcy.

stupid kid.

[glowkeeper]

Investment requires credit. I took a loan to buy a variety of asics. I'll either swim in Bitcoin or file bankruptcy.

stupid kid.

He might be trolling.....

Debt is the root of all evil. The early Christians knew it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

The result today is that in order to pay off debt, our modern Western Economies require infinite growth. In a finite environment. Doh!

[glowkeeper]

if you don't think you can compete with miners, then sell things to them in btc.   

Like, er, mining equipment?

[Bitcoinorama]

Investment requires credit. I took a loan to buy a variety of asics. I'll either swim in Bitcoin or file bankruptcy.

stupid kid.

He might be trolling.....

Debt is the root of all evil. The early Christians knew it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

The result today is that in order to pay off debt, our modern Western Economies require infinite growth. In a finite environment. Doh!

+1. Incidentally forcing people to undertake university education before they've been taught about debt and usury, let alone knowing what they want from life (presuming cooperate life is nothing most would choose given an 'educated' choice) is helping that situation no end!!

[Bitcoinorama]

if you don't think you can compete with miners, then sell things to them in btc.   

Like, er, mining equipment?

I thought that admittedly, but that's too narrow minded, and renegates the vies of bitcoin to that of Ponzi.

The wealth creation in designing a means for people to spend Bitcoins as currency for other non-mining products and services is yet to be embraced and exploited...

[glowkeeper]

Incidentally forcing people to undertake university education before they've been taught about debt and usury, let alone knowing what they want from life (presuming cooperate life is nothing most would choose given an 'educated' choice) is helping that situation no end!!

Absolutely right!

But banks don't exist without debt, so it makes perfect sense (to them) to indoctrinate a whole swathe of middle class kids into that way of life. Call me a cynic.....

[glowkeeper]

I thought that admittedly, but that's too narrow minded, and renegates the vies of bitcoin to that of Ponzi.

Exactly. Infinite loops n'all that. I had smoke coming out my backside....

The wealth creation in designing a means for people to spend Bitcoins as currency for other non-mining products and services is yet to be embraced and exploited...

+1. But I've had 30+ years to try and work out schemes to get people to part with their fiat.....and failed miserably So I'm not holding out much hope regarding my chances with crypto's, in all honesty I'm just enjoying the intellectual exercise I reckon

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I have read they partnered with ORSoC. That seems a legit and long living company thats trustworthy. But i dont remember to read how much financially KNCMiner is invested into ORSoC. I mean how much money did they put into ORSoC? Partnering could mean that ORSoC is paying the development and creation of the chips out of their own pockets. Were there numbers how much money KNCMiner put into ORSoC somewhere? If its much, and the amount of money KNCMiner got with their preorders isnt much higher, it would be a pretty good sign that KNCMiner is legit. Because they cant run easily.
Only thing to consider then would be the time when the miners are in customers hands.

A partnership doesn't mean you'll put any money into the other company.

The way I see it, KNCMINER will handle the front of the house and ORSoC the back. KNCMINER with take care or orders and payments and ORSoC will bill them, as a supplier.

This way, the risky bit (debt) is with KNCMINER while the profits can stay with ORSoC. If things go pear shaped, bankrupting KNCMINER will be much cheaper (and the profits are more or less safe with ORSoC - I'm sure though that Sweden must have some rule like "money that has been paid by KNCMINER to X,Y,Z within the last xx months needs to be returned and shared amongst all the creditors/state/banks/whatnot", so it's not all bad).

Please understand (KS I'm sure you do) there is a reputational element.

For all intents and purposes time is a healer etc. but any misappropriation of funds or failure would cause significant problems for them in future. Being affiliated with Bitcoin, there is a public relations risk for them I'm sure they don't want a failure on their hands. It's more than other people's money...

Not just misappropriation of funds, but bad management.

The goose with the golden eggs is ORSoC. If KNCMINER fails as a company, ORSoC can find another shell company to sell same or similar miners, can take over the clientele and generally let KNCMINER die and the accumulated debt with it (if debt is the killer).

That's an "old" business strategy: keep the money safe from the debt.

Same if the directors decide to split. KNCMINER is dead and ORSoC can take over the business directly or indirectly.

That doesn't mean ORSoC's reputation will suffer one bit. It depends how they will spin it and what they will do about it (if they don't do anything, it will be bad, but if they offer to take over support, they'll be seen as saviors).

Make no mistake, ORSoC knows exactly what type of mentality Sam and Andreas possess, and already have a plan of action in place. Remember, ORSoC has had bitcoiners on staff prior to this recently partnership.

[DPoS]

I thought that admittedly, but that's too narrow minded, and renegates the vies of bitcoin to that of Ponzi.

Exactly. Infinite loops n'all that. I had smoke coming out my backside....

The wealth creation in designing a means for people to spend Bitcoins as currency for other non-mining products and services is yet to be embraced and exploited...

+1. But I've had 30+ years to try and work out schemes to get people to part with their fiat.....and failed miserably So I'm not holding out much hope regarding my chances with crypto's, in all honesty I'm just enjoying the intellectual exercise I reckon

cue the nosy marketing research dataminers...

as a not perfect example, think of the boon of oilmen in North Dakota.  For sure there are people trying to figure out a profile of the newly rich backyard drillers..  what type of personaility do they have up there?  do they have lots of kids? how's the culture? etc...  then you cater your products and marketing to it and hope you're not completely stupid looking.

but with bitcoin you have two things..  newly rich folk like the above to target, and also a new eco-center of money that would be good to expand and keep it churning..  velocity is what they call it in those education towers..

So for miners.. what's their profile?  loners in need of fresh air? make a travel agency that takes bitcoins..  gamblers?  they still don't have full sportsbooks that flow with bitcoins from what I know of.. not talking satoshi dice here

maybe solar panels?

I placed my bets with Saturns, and some Avalon/DIYs and have a few USBees and my ModMiner..  time to move to the marketplace/economy boards I guess

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Their payment page has been updated. What happened to the 50% paid upfront and 50% paid 3 weeks prior to shipping? https://www.kncminer.com/pages/payment

Our payment system will allow standard card payments via PayPal and direct payments in Bitcoin.

The decision to allow Bitcoin payments was of course simple.

The decision to allow other forms of payment was a little harder.

In the end we have decided to open up to allow PayPal payments as well. The main reason for this was to allow people to enter the market. Rather than to only cater for people who have managed to trade or mine the appropriate amount of coins already.

With a greater number of people mining, the whole community gets to benefit and this will make it stronger.

During the initial phase of this business we understand (quite rightly so) that people are a little concerned when sending money or coins to companies that have not been trading for very long. To alleviate some of these concerns we will not be taking any money from our customers until we have progressed much further down development path.

Even when we have made enough progress we will open up our order books with two possible purchase methods. The first will be a standard payment in advance allowing customers to enter as far down the queue as possible (based on a first come first serve bases). The first 500 KNCminers will be sold this way, as soon as the first 500 are sold we will close that order book.

The second order type which will be available at the same time is a 50% upfront payment method. Customers enter the queue as low as possible (first come first serve) with the miner numbers starting at 501 the rest of the 50% payment is then due 3 weeks before shipment.

We will then close that method as soon as we ship our first miner and return to the standard upfront payment method.

Payment
Main PagePayment
Our payment system will allow the following payment methods:
 PayPal
 Bitcoin via Bitpay
 Bank transfer
The decision to allow Bitcoin payments was of course simple.
The decision to allow other forms of payment was a little harder.
In the end we have decided to open up to allow PayPal payments as well. The main reason for this was to allow people to enter the market. Rather than to only cater for people who have managed to trade or mine the appropriate amount of coins already.
With a greater number of people mining, the whole community gets to benefit and this will make it stronger.
During the initial phase of this business we understand (quite rightly so) that people are a little concerned when sending money or coins to companies that have not been trading for very long. To alleviate some of these concerns we will not be taking any money from our customers until we have progressed much further down development path.
 
For Bank Transfers please use the following details
In the reference please add your order  number so we can track your payment
Account Name : KNCMINER AB
IBAN:  SE1850000000054238202171
BIC:  ESSESESS
Bank Name: SEB
Bank Address:  SEB, St: Eriksgatan 32, 112 34 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN

[wowc8]

Ok, wanted to update everyone with an email I received from Sam about the confusion with the pre-order number versus the order number.  Looks like my place in line is, just like was being said before in this forum, based on the pre-order number.  Mine is 1700+ for a 1-500 Jupiter, but I guess there hasn't been a lot of paying customers so my order should still be within the first few days of shipping.

This will be good news for anyone who has a pre-order number above 1700 or didn't pre-register for the 1-500.

[qiuness]

ordered 1 jupiter and was wondering...(for a possible second jupiter)

Use my new order number #687 or my old pre-order ID
Order ID: 1778
The desired goods: Jupiter

[Bitcoinorama]

ordered 1 jupiter and was wondering...(for a possible second jupiter)

Use my new order number #687 or my old pre-order ID
Order ID: 1778
The desired goods: Jupiter

Pure guesstimate...but I reckon older the original sign of interest the earlier you queue position.

Nothing confirmed, haven't asked. Just logic.

[rizzman]

Orders should be first paid - first shipped..

The fact that someone signed up with them few weeks ago should mean heck all. Pay and brag with it then. People getting angry about it are customer version of pre-order ASIC sales - want something for nothing.

Disclaimer: I haven't paid anything.

you're an idiot

I love you too

DPoS... Stop being an ass... seleme is exactly right, Just because Person "A" clicks a button on lets say May 15th for example, then person "B" PAYS for his order on June 3rd BEFORE person "A" has done so, Person "A" should NOT be placed before Person "B".

Money Talks... and this is the equivalent of someone cutting the line which In in most places would earn you an asswhoopin.

but I digress... The price you pay for participating in a specialized market...

Disclaimer: I have paid as of June 4. Now, I get to watch as 500 others get their product before me, regardless of when they paid.

[Bitcoinorama]

Orders should be first paid - first shipped..

The fact that someone signed up with them few weeks ago should mean heck all. Pay and brag with it then. People getting angry about it are customer version of pre-order ASIC sales - want something for nothing.

Disclaimer: I haven't paid anything.

you're an idiot

I love you too

DPoS... Stop being an ass... seleme is exactly right, Just because Person "A" clicks a button on lets say May 15th for example, then person "B" PAYS for his order on June 3rd BEFORE person "A" has done so, Person "A" should NOT be placed before Person "B".

Money Talks... and this is the equivalent of someone cutting the line which In in most places would earn you an asswhoopin.

but I digress... The price you pay for participating in a specialized market...

Disclaimer: I have paid as of June 4. Now, I get to watch as 500 others get their product before me, regardless of when they paid.

Incorrect. The initial 500 pre-orderers (if that's a term) enabled KnC to secure ORSoC as a partner.

Part of their criteria to come aboard was an idea of volume of genuine interest.

You may not remember the initial revision of the KnC site, but it gave two scenarios.

Those prepared to pay for a $3k machine upfront pre-order to be in the first 500.

Those prepared to pay half the funds to secure a $3k machine upfront, followed by the second half at the time delivery starts to be in a second batch of 500. (Memories foggy, think that deal was right).

In any case they want to reward those that helped them make this a reality...

In this case confirmed interest talked and said money will follow with a shit-hot ASIC design team.

KnC have openly said; No ORSoC on board, no dice. It was the initial pre-orderers that made this happen...

[KS]

I have read they partnered with ORSoC. That seems a legit and long living company thats trustworthy. But i dont remember to read how much financially KNCMiner is invested into ORSoC. I mean how much money did they put into ORSoC? Partnering could mean that ORSoC is paying the development and creation of the chips out of their own pockets. Were there numbers how much money KNCMiner put into ORSoC somewhere? If its much, and the amount of money KNCMiner got with their preorders isnt much higher, it would be a pretty good sign that KNCMiner is legit. Because they cant run easily.
Only thing to consider then would be the time when the miners are in customers hands.

A partnership doesn't mean you'll put any money into the other company.

The way I see it, KNCMINER will handle the front of the house and ORSoC the back. KNCMINER with take care or orders and payments and ORSoC will bill them, as a supplier.

This way, the risky bit (debt) is with KNCMINER while the profits can stay with ORSoC. If things go pear shaped, bankrupting KNCMINER will be much cheaper (and the profits are more or less safe with ORSoC - I'm sure though that Sweden must have some rule like "money that has been paid by KNCMINER to X,Y,Z within the last xx months needs to be returned and shared amongst all the creditors/state/banks/whatnot", so it's not all bad).

Please understand (KS I'm sure you do) there is a reputational element.

For all intents and purposes time is a healer etc. but any misappropriation of funds or failure would cause significant problems for them in future. Being affiliated with Bitcoin, there is a public relations risk for them I'm sure they don't want a failure on their hands. It's more than other people's money...

Not just misappropriation of funds, but bad management.

The goose with the golden eggs is ORSoC. If KNCMINER fails as a company, ORSoC can find another shell company to sell same or similar miners, can take over the clientele and generally let KNCMINER die and the accumulated debt with it (if debt is the killer).

That's an "old" business strategy: keep the money safe from the debt.

Same if the directors decide to split. KNCMINER is dead and ORSoC can take over the business directly or indirectly.

That doesn't mean ORSoC's reputation will suffer one bit. It depends how they will spin it and what they will do about it (if they don't do anything, it will be bad, but if they offer to take over support, they'll be seen as saviors).

I´m not defending nor accusing one or the other side of this arrangement - but in case of illiquidity of KNC they can´t just drop the business and leave. There would be formal    insolvency proceedings, a liquidator would be commissioned by court. One creditor (ORSoC) wouldn´t be favored over other creditors (e.g. customers). Financial transactions can be forced to take back for a time frame up to 3 month. If two companies are involved, both would could be hold accountable for fraudulent charges in court. Also the acting managers could be hold responsible personally even with there stakes in other companies.

Not saying, pre-paid money is safe, just saying, European Laws in case of bankruptcy are quite strict and although I know, that doesn´t make it impossible to get burned, it could be an advantage to deal with legit companies compared to deals with completely unknown people from literally anywhere in the world.

3 months only? Not so much then.

Anyway, when I speak of "old busines strategy", I don't necessarily imply fraud. It's a sound practice to keep your business running in case of, say, "Force Majeure". You can more easily dump the toxic bit that way. In Europe it's still costly, but it's usually less than "total loss". I wouldn't be surprised if the IP stayed with ORSoC "just in case".