Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Why does anybody push this crazy chaotic, contencious (75% 28 days) hard-fork when we have a far superior solution in segwit.

Could everybody please chill and not belive the FUD about capacity cliff. Bitcoin doing as good as ever.

Because, just maybe, they dont share your blind faith?

Blind faith in what, Gavin?  You think Segwit wont be implemented? Its already running on testnet and wallet developers are working with core devs to integrate. Most wallet devs said its relatively simple.

That statement is just waffle.  Capacity and segwit are 2 different issues. Are you saying segwit is a capacity solution? I'm sure that will be news to its developers as they wrote it to solve a very different problem set.

Or are you suggesting that it is a capacity solution by virtue of its radical reformatting of block structure, and that that is in some way less risky than the 2Mb bump?

How do you feel about the segwit kludge of pushing its commitment into the coinbase tx? You ok with that design approach?  What was the motivation for it? Expediency, efficiency or just so that they would not have to sell segwit as an evil HF?
 

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[ImI]

Segwit is good but its not a solution to blocksize and was never meant to be one.

LN is a solution but its far from being implemented and tested. Some say its 2-3 years from now.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[findftp]

I'd rather see some mayhem in this market first.
Let's bump the limit and see what happens.

Nobody wants to deal with this problem once this is a gazillion trillion market.
Bump this shit now, see what happens and act accordingly.

Just like you let your kids get all kinds of bacteria through playing with dirt and putting everything in their mouth.
Kids have to get sick first so they will be resilient as an adult.

If you prevent your kids to get sick by putting them in sterile surroundings, they'll die soon when they grow up...

[8up]

I'd rather see some mayhem in this market first.
Let's bump the limit and see what happens.

Nobody wants to deal with this problem once this is a gazillion trillion market.
Bump this shit now, see what happens and act accordingly.

Just like you let your kids get all kinds of bacteria through playing with dirt and putting everything in their mouth.
Kids have to get sick first so they will be resilient as an adult.

If you prevent your kids to get sick by putting them in sterile surroundings, they'll die soon when they grow up...

^^The Truth.

[hdbuck]

I'd rather see some mayhem in this market first.
Let's bump the limit and see what happens.

Nobody wants to deal with this problem once this is a gazillion trillion market.
Bump this shit now, see what happens and act accordingly.

Just like you let your kids get all kinds of bacteria through playing with dirt and putting everything in their mouth.
Kids have to get sick first so they will be resilient as an adult.

If you prevent your kids to get sick by putting them in sterile surroundings, they'll die soon when they grow up...

^^The Truth.

Bitcoin ain't for kids.

[findftp]

I'd rather see some mayhem in this market first.
Let's bump the limit and see what happens.

Nobody wants to deal with this problem once this is a gazillion trillion market.
Bump this shit now, see what happens and act accordingly.

Just like you let your kids get all kinds of bacteria through playing with dirt and putting everything in their mouth.
Kids have to get sick first so they will be resilient as an adult.

If you prevent your kids to get sick by putting them in sterile surroundings, they'll die soon when they grow up...

^^The Truth.

Bitcoin ain't for kids.

Bitcoin is a kid, right now...

[8up]

I'd rather see some mayhem in this market first.
Let's bump the limit and see what happens.

Nobody wants to deal with this problem once this is a gazillion trillion market.
Bump this shit now, see what happens and act accordingly.

Just like you let your kids get all kinds of bacteria through playing with dirt and putting everything in their mouth.
Kids have to get sick first so they will be resilient as an adult.

If you prevent your kids to get sick by putting them in sterile surroundings, they'll die soon when they grow up...

^^The Truth.

Bitcoin ain't for kids.

Bitcoin is a kid, right now...

a 7 year old girl to be exact.

[hdbuck]

I'd rather see some mayhem in this market first.
Let's bump the limit and see what happens.

Nobody wants to deal with this problem once this is a gazillion trillion market.
Bump this shit now, see what happens and act accordingly.

Just like you let your kids get all kinds of bacteria through playing with dirt and putting everything in their mouth.
Kids have to get sick first so they will be resilient as an adult.

If you prevent your kids to get sick by putting them in sterile surroundings, they'll die soon when they grow up...

^^The Truth.

Bitcoin ain't for kids.

Bitcoin is a kid, right now...

Meh, WTF? do not conflate "infancy" with plain "teenage" whims.

There will be no governance/inflation coup instigating a "precedent" because some loud random social spammers want it so.

Coercive consensus breaking "upgrades" will fail because bitcoin is open source opt in software.

[danielW]

Why does anybody push this crazy chaotic, contencious (75% 28 days) hard-fork when we have a far superior solution in segwit.

Could everybody please chill and not belive the FUD about capacity cliff. Bitcoin doing as good as ever.

Because, just maybe, they dont share your blind faith?

Blind faith in what, Gavin?  You think Segwit wont be implemented? Its already running on testnet and wallet developers are working with core devs to integrate. Most wallet devs said its relatively simple.

That statement is just waffle.  Capacity and segwit are 2 different issues. Are you saying segwit is a capacity solution? I'm sure that will be news to its developers as they wrote it to solve a very different problem set.

Or are you suggesting that it is a capacity solution by virtue of its radical reformatting of block structure, and that that is in some way less risky than the 2Mb bump?

How do you feel about the segwit kludge of pushing its commitment into the coinbase tx? You ok with that design approach?  What was the motivation for it? Expediency, efficiency or just so that they would not have to sell segwit as an evil HF?
 

Segwit gives the same capacity increase as your hard-fork, if thats not a capacity solution that how is hard fork capacity solution?

Its much better tho as its a soft-fork and gives many other improvements. Among them it fixes malleability which is needed for much better capacity increases down the line. The hard-fork offers nothing in that department.

[Fatman3001]

Why does anybody push this crazy chaotic, contencious (75% 28 days) hard-fork when we have a far superior solution in segwit.

Could everybody please chill and not belive the FUD about capacity cliff. Bitcoin doing as good as ever.

Because, just maybe, they dont share your blind faith?

Blind faith in what, Gavin?  You think Segwit wont be implemented? Its already running on testnet and wallet developers are working with core devs to integrate. Most wallet devs said its relatively simple.

That statement is just waffle.  Capacity and segwit are 2 different issues. Are you saying segwit is a capacity solution? I'm sure that will be news to its developers as they wrote it to solve a very different problem set.

Or are you suggesting that it is a capacity solution by virtue of its radical reformatting of block structure, and that that is in some way less risky than the 2Mb bump?

How do you feel about the segwit kludge of pushing its commitment into the coinbase tx? You ok with that design approach?  What was the motivation for it? Expediency, efficiency or just so that they would not have to sell segwit as an evil HF?
 

Segwit gives the same capacity increase as your hard-fork, if thats not a capacity solution that how is hard fork capacity solution?

Its much better tho as its a soft-fork and gives many other improvements. Among them it fixes malleability which is needed for much better capacity increases down the line. The hard-fork offers nothing in that department.

It doesn't give the same capacity increases even in the best case scenario, which would be if everyone adopted it straight away. And that would only happen if it was launched as a hard fork. I hope for at least 1.3MB straight off the bat, but that might be optimistic.

[danielW]

It doesn't give the same capacity increases even in the best case scenario, which would be if everyone adopted it straight away.

Hard-fork gives nothing until everybody adopts it. Segwit gives benefits to anybody who wants higher capacity without needing to wait for anybody else.

For some transactions It gives much better capacity increase then hard-fork, for others its slightly smaller.

And off-course segwit provides numerous other benefits including ability to have real massive scaling solutions in future (payment channels, lightning network).

Hard-fork does 0 in that department.

Segwit is absolute win, win, win in every department.


Hard-fork is only being pushed by Gavin and coinbase propaganda because they are trying to take control of bitcoin.

[blunderer]

...
Bitcoin ain't for kids.

Bitcoin is a kid, right now...

Meh, WTF? do not conflate "infancy" with plain "teenage" whims.
...

Infancy ... Teenage whims...  Second childhood.
But the pros call it



@Fatman3001: capacity increase is not what SegWit is about -- that's a secondary benefit. Its primary purpose is complexity Making Rube Goldberg jelly solving the malleability problem, which is really not a problem but should be solved tho.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Segwit gives the same capacity increase as your hard-fork,

No it does not. 1.3x to 1.7x in absolute best case. How does it do this? By creating a completely new, arbitrary blockchain. Thats so cool, isn't it?

if thats not a capacity solution that how is hard fork capacity solution?

HF bumps capacity to 2Mb, Were you not aware of that?

Its much better tho as its a soft-fork and gives many other improvements.

This is complete bullshit. Its only a SF because of a kludge - which you wont even talk about. Segwit is much bettter as a HF

Among them it fixes malleability which is needed for much better capacity increases down the line.

How does that effect capacity now or  'down the line'? It does no such thing. You are throwing anything into your argument now.

The hard-fork offers nothing in that department.

It does not need to. We are not trying to change bitcoin so we can sell it to the banking industry as a private blockchain.
All the 'fixes' you are putting in are at the behest of AXA and the other institutional investors that have bought bitcoin from blockstream.

[danielW]

Segwit gives the same capacity increase as your hard-fork,

No it does not. 1.3x to 1.7x in absolute best case. How does it do this? By creating a completely new, arbitrary blockchain. Thats so cool, isn't it?

if thats not a capacity solution that how is hard fork capacity solution?

HF bumps capacity to 2Mb, Were you not aware of that?

Its much better tho as its a soft-fork and gives many other improvements.

This is complete bullshit. Its only a SF because of a kludge - which you wont even talk about. Segwit is much bettter as a HF

Among them it fixes malleability which is needed for much better capacity increases down the line.

How does that effect capacity now or  'down the line'? It does no such thing. You are throwing anything into your argument now.

The hard-fork offers nothing in that department.

It does not need to. We are not trying to change bitcoin so we can sell it to the banking industry as a private blockchain.
All the 'fixes' you are putting in are at the behest of AXA and the other institutional investors that have bought bitcoin from blockstream.

The expected benefit for standard transactions is about 1.7mb, best case is 4mb. its 2mb for 2-of-2 multisig.

"kludge" Thats a meaningless self-serving propaganda term invented By Gavin The Fudster and friends. What makes it a kludge? Gavin said so? It cleans up the structure and fixes many problems like malleability.



"How does that effect capacity now or  'down the line'? It does no such thing."

Payment channels and lightning network can not work properly without malleability fixed. Segwit does that, hard fork offers 0.

Payment channels and lightning network will enable scaling orders of magnitude bigger then measly chaotic hardfork increase by 1mb.


The core scaling road map is more then good enough. Gavin is causing disruption and chaos because of his ego, once we ignore him price will increase and everybody will be happy.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[blunderer]

... "kludge" Thats a meaningless self-serving propaganda term invented By Gavin The Fudster and friends. What makes it a kludge? Gavin said so? It cleans up the structure and fixes many problems like malleability. ...

Kludge. Perfect fit. Also amazing ignorance on your part.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

The expected benefit for standard transactions is about 1.7mb, best case is 4mb. its 2mb for 2-of-2 multisig.

"kludge" Thats a meaningless self-serving propaganda term invented By Gavin The Fudster and friends. What makes it a kludge? Gavin said so? It cleans up the structure and fixes many problems like malleability.


"How does that effect capacity now or  'down the line'? It does no such thing."

Payment channels and lightning network can not work properly without malleability fixed. Segwit does that, hard fork offers 0.

Payment channels and lightning network will enable scaling orders of magnitude bigger then measly chaotic hardfork increase by 1mb.


The core scaling road map is more then good enough. Gavin is causing disruption and chaos because of his ego, once we ignore him price will increase and everybody will be happy.

You know less about Bitcoin than you do about correctly quoting comments... 

You are just shitposting now.  Throwing statements about with no explanation does not help your case.

I mean this :

"kludge" Thats a meaningless self-serving propaganda term invented By Gavin The Fudster and friends

is about as much quality as you can muster.  Thankfully, you will be forked off to your AXACoin soon enough.

[danielW]

... "kludge" Thats a meaningless self-serving propaganda term invented By Gavin The Fudster and friends. What makes it a kludge? Gavin said so? It cleans up the structure and fixes many problems like malleability. ...

Kludge. Perfect fit. Also amazing ignorance on your part.

quick-and-dirty solution that is clumsy, inelegant, inefficient, difficult to extend and hard to maintain.

None of those are true re segwit, what makes it a kludge?

Its just a meaningless propaganda term.

edit: Actually that definition probably fits the hard fork increase perfectly. It is quick-and-dirty (gavin even said something to that effect himself). inelegant (magic numbers), inefficient (simply trades off decentralisation and makes nodes harder to run unlike segwit)


I am opposed to the hard-fork Kludge, segwit is the efficient elegant solution.

[danielW]

 Throwing statements about with no explanation does not help your case.

So why dont you explain to me what makes it a Kludge?


Also, I tried not insult you so please try and not to insult me.