Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[dropt]

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

At the end of the day you can only put so much data in a 1MB space.  When all options are exhausted the only path forward is to increase the blocksize.  So truthfully, scaling bitcoin is about BOTH "how big we can make the blocks" and "how efficiently we can use the block space."

[ButtLava]

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

Scaling bitcoin isn't about either of those things, it's about getting more transactions per block. Ideally that is done efficiently, but scaling can mean one or the other or both. The end result is more transactions. If the goal wasn't more transactions then segwit would lower the block size to match its efficiency to keep the amount of transactions the same.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

Thats a bit mad really, isn't it?

Needing to use space more efficiently, when in reality its not in short supply at all.  Except that it is decided to be.
And by increasing complexity?  hmmmm.

1st world problems, eh?

[nioc]

Gold is up almost 15% without any noticeable pullbacks yet this year. This is straight connected to the dropping Stock markets. The Goldprice is a straight measure of market fear.


This is the time for bitcoin to shine like gold does. If we dump just like the stock markets do I don't see many people looking into bitcoin as a possible investment in bad times.

Gold is up because it solved its block size problem.

you've fallen into Gavin and Mike Hearns govt. doublespeak language trap, there is no "blocksize problem" ... there are only transaction capacity challenges that are largely solved and are being implemented and technological growth constraints that can be adequately worked with.

You are correct that it is a transaction capacity problem.  I didn't realize it was largely solved and being implemented.

A few points of clarification please.

What transaction capacity is needed?
Being that the transaction capacity challenges are largely solved, would you please list what those solutions are?
What is the timeline for the implementation of these solutions?
What will be the transaction capacity be when these solutions are implemented and how does it compare to the needed transaction capacity?

Thank you.
 

NP I'm amazed you don't seem to be aware of the capacity increases roadmap and screeds of pages of discussioon that been written about it by now, but here is the link https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011865.html https://bitcoincore.org/en/2015/12/21/capacity-increase/ and a FAQ link seeing as you have lots of innocently leading queries also it seems https://bitcoincore.org/en/2015/12/23/capacity-increases-faq/

Thanks, 70 hr work weeks leave my brain a bit mushy.  At least I can be on BCT for some of that time.  I remember starting to read that 12/7 writing by Maxwell and then merely bookmarked it and never got back to it.  The FAQ puts things in an easier format for me.  It is now bookmarked

[Fatman3001]

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

Eeehhhrrrmmm.... what about the users then?

I thought it was about making the necessary decisions well ahead of capacity being a problem?

When fee-paying transactions take three days, someone messed up.

This is how much Bitcoin can suck for certified tech-geeks without any congestion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo

[nioc]

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

At the end of the day you can only put so much data in a 1MB space.  When all options are exhausted the only path forward is to increase the blocksize.  So truthfully, scaling bitcoin is about BOTH "how big we can make the blocks" and "how efficiently we can use the block space."

This seems self evident.  Maybe if "both sides" take ecstasy the conflict will be resolved and solutions found 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

At the end of the day you can only put so much data in a 1MB space.  When all options are exhausted the only path forward is to increase the blocksize.  So truthfully, scaling bitcoin is about BOTH "how big we can make the blocks" and "how efficiently we can use the block space."

This seems self evident.  Maybe if "both sides" take ecstasy the conflict will be resolved and solutions found 

I could hug you right now.

[aztecminer]

i have awesome strategy for bitcoin . we'll play out the "bitcoin doesn't scale" thing and we will, in the end, do nothing.... some have said that will kill bitcoin .. it will be alright because everyone here has other investments and are only trading with money they don't really need anyways.. that is the prime rule of bitcoin .. only buy bitcoins with what you can afford to lose.  and there we go #problemsolved

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[blunderer]

i have awesome strategy for bitcoin . we'll play out the "bitcoin doesn't scale" thing and we will, in the end, do nothing.... some have said that will kill bitcoin .. it will be alright because everyone here has other investments and are only trading with money they don't really need anyways.. that is the prime rule of bitcoin .. only buy bitcoins with what you can afford to lose.  and there we go #problemsolved

Welcome to Bitcoin
The first rule of Bitcoin is: you always talk about Bitcoin.
The second rule of Bitcoin is: you always talk about Bitcoin, to everybody. Trap them in an elevator.
Third rule of Bitcoin is: someone yells "stop!", goes limp, taps out, you keep talking about Bitcoin. Only louder.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^The ladies love it.

[coins101]

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

Thats a bit mad really, isn't it?

Needing to use space more efficiently, when in reality its not in short supply at all.  Except that it is decided to be.
And by increasing complexity?  hmmmm.

1st world problems, eh?

Is China in the 1st world? Blocks sizes is a China issue. Actually a China government issue, cause firewall.

[coins101]

^The ladies love it.

'My wallet is 60GB and growing every 10 minutes. But I got great band-width'

This line works a treat, especially if target lady being chatted up is pissed and she mishears.

[blunderer]

...
Is China in the 1st world? Blocks sizes is a China issue. Actually a China government issue, cause firewall.

Dunno. But depending so heavily on Chinese miners -- that's a Bitcoin issue

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[lottery248]

...
Is China in the 1st world? Blocks sizes is a China issue. Actually a China government issue, cause firewall.

Dunno. But depending so heavily on Chinese miners -- that's a Bitcoin issue

chinese new year now, but chinese miners aren't shutting down the machines to let the workers to have their celebration.
the holidays does not affect their mine, you know, it needs a long time to shutdown or setup.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[JayJuanGee]

Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.

It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.

way to understate segwit.

1.75x incess is HUGE!

scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space

Thats a bit mad really, isn't it?

Needing to use space more efficiently, when in reality its not in short supply at all.  Except that it is decided to be.
And by increasing complexity?  hmmmm.

1st world problems, eh?

You seem to be very short-sighted if you are suggesting that increasing the block size is some trivial matter because it is "just a tiny increase" and "we have all kinds of space", blah blah blah 

The fact of the matter may be that there is a bit of luxury with such a discussion, but the impact of rash considerations, such as increasing the block size has impacts on participation and really on lots of people, who may become foreclosed from participation because of technology and technological demands.

Your apparent poo poo-ing the problem seems to demonstrate more that you are caught up in first world concerns, rather than the direction of your criticism of others who are trying to keep bit coin from becoming too big too fast and too centralized...

[JayJuanGee]

i have awesome strategy for bitcoin . we'll play out the "bitcoin doesn't scale" thing and we will, in the end, do nothing.... some have said that will kill bitcoin .. it will be alright because everyone here has other investments and are only trading with money they don't really need anyways.. that is the prime rule of bitcoin .. only buy bitcoins with what you can afford to lose.  and there we go #problemsolved

The rule with any risky investment is that you cover all of your basic necessities first, and plan ahead a bit.

Accordingly, anything you invest is extra money.

Yes, you could take that "extra money" and spend it on a vacation or another investment, but you proportion all of your "extra money" in such a way that hopefully in the end, the various investments grow rather than shrink... and bitcoin is one portion of that total investment package and philosophy.  Bitcoin is not the only investment that governing philosophy :  "invest no more than you can afford to lose."

In other words, you should not be doing too much if any leveraging with your investments (except maybe to the extent that you are leveraging a variety of investments - rather than leveraging your home or leveraging your next 10 years of income or leveraging your food money).

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Most downvoted comment in the whole thread. Woot?

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/44qvoz/has_blockstream_received_a_nsl/