Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[orpington]

We are nowhere close to "everything will suck soon" ^tm. You guys have been saying that for a year now btw.

Actually several years. We've been repeatedly pointing at the same stupid, unnecessary hard ceiling, and pointing out that the inexorable trend of increasing transactions has us on a clear intersect.

In the meantime, we have recently gone from things never sucking in regards to capacity, to things sucking for brief flashes of time. The issue is not how much one needs to pay to get a transaction through, the issue is that with the current block size, no more than about 350,000 transactions can be processed in a day. Period. No matter how much money is thrown at the transactions.

Here's what those two non-parallel lines would look like if the bump to 2MB occurs May 1:

Thanks! This is still the best graph.

Yes, this is still the best meaningless graph, Andre#.

You are so "spot on" lately.

[Fatman3001]

The guy tried his best to help fix a problem and was treated as shit for it.

Maybe he should have tried harder to write some actual code.

It doesn't seem like our current conundrum is due to a lack of code.

I am genuinely looking forward to seeing what response you, brg444, icebreaker, hdbuck et al. provide for our entertainment if the network actually forks to classic and no disaster occurs. All that brazen supercilious venom spewed over the last year with potentially nothing to show for haha.

I'm glad you're finding it hilarious. I don't. Because I invested non-trivial portion of my portfolio into Bitcoin and I'd hate it all to go "poof!" if a hostile hard fork backfires and the net DOES split into two. Are you willing to bet ALL your BTC that this has a zero chance of happening? I would not be so sure.

Still got time to cut your loose
*Not much tho, look at them Classic nodes springing up! Like mushrooms after an autumn rain

Actually, those classic nodes are more like fungus spreading on the corpses of XT/unlimited nodes. 

So we agree that Bitcoin Classic is a kind of fungus. I guess that's progress.

Yes. All fungi have a certain role to play in any given ecosystem.

Careful, you're turning Gavinista now.

[orpington]

The guy tried his best to help fix a problem and was treated as shit for it.

Maybe he should have tried harder to write some actual code.

It doesn't seem like our current conundrum is due to a lack of code.

I am genuinely looking forward to seeing what response you, brg444, icebreaker, hdbuck et al. provide for our entertainment if the network actually forks to classic and no disaster occurs. All that brazen supercilious venom spewed over the last year with potentially nothing to show for haha.

I'm glad you're finding it hilarious. I don't. Because I invested non-trivial portion of my portfolio into Bitcoin and I'd hate it all to go "poof!" if a hostile hard fork backfires and the net DOES split into two. Are you willing to bet ALL your BTC that this has a zero chance of happening? I would not be so sure.

Still got time to cut your loose
*Not much tho, look at them Classic nodes springing up! Like mushrooms after an autumn rain

Actually, those classic nodes are more like fungus spreading on the corpses of XT/unlimited nodes. 

So we agree that Bitcoin Classic is a kind of fungus. I guess that's progress.

Yes. All fungi have a certain role to play in any given ecosystem.

Careful, you're turning Gavinista now.

No. But we certainly do need mechanisms for the removal of decay whatever that might be. Classic is a temporary manifestation of this and it does serve a certain perhaps obscure purpose for sure.

[Fatman3001]

I am genuinely looking forward to seeing what response you, brg444, icebreaker, hdbuck et al. provide for our entertainment if the network actually forks to classic and no disaster occurs. All that brazen supercilious venom spewed over the last year with potentially nothing to show for haha.

I'm glad you're finding it hilarious. I don't. Because I invested non-trivial portion of my portfolio into Bitcoin and I'd hate it all to go "poof!" if a hostile hard fork backfires and the net DOES split into two. Are you willing to bet ALL your BTC that this has a zero chance of happening? I would not be so sure.

Still got time to cut your loose
*Not much tho, look at them Classic nodes springing up! Like mushrooms after an autumn rain

Actually, those classic nodes are more like fungus spreading on the corpses of XT/unlimited nodes.  

So we agree that Bitcoin Classic is a kind of fungus. I guess that's progress.

Yes. All fungi have a certain role to play in any given ecosystem.

Careful, you're turning Gavinista now.

No. But we certainly do need mechanisms for the removal of decay whatever that might be. Classic is a temporary manifestation of this and it does serve a certain perhaps obscure purpose for sure.

Agree 100%

[orpington]

I am genuinely looking forward to seeing what response you, brg444, icebreaker, hdbuck et al. provide for our entertainment if the network actually forks to classic and no disaster occurs. All that brazen supercilious venom spewed over the last year with potentially nothing to show for haha.

I'm glad you're finding it hilarious. I don't. Because I invested non-trivial portion of my portfolio into Bitcoin and I'd hate it all to go "poof!" if a hostile hard fork backfires and the net DOES split into two. Are you willing to bet ALL your BTC that this has a zero chance of happening? I would not be so sure.

Still got time to cut your loose
*Not much tho, look at them Classic nodes springing up! Like mushrooms after an autumn rain

Actually, those classic nodes are more like fungus spreading on the corpses of XT/unlimited nodes.  

So we agree that Bitcoin Classic is a kind of fungus. I guess that's progress.

Yes. All fungi have a certain role to play in any given ecosystem.

Careful, you're turning Gavinista now.

No. But we certainly do need mechanisms for the removal of decay whatever that might be. Classic is a temporary manifestation of this and it does serve a certain perhaps obscure purpose for sure.

Agree 100%

All the fighting and arguing of late is rather disheartening. I miss those days of solidarity and common purpose and wonder if it will ever return.

Whatever, though. It's all just a fucking game anyway! 

[Andre#]

We are nowhere close to "everything will suck soon" ^tm. You guys have been saying that for a year now btw.

Actually several years. We've been repeatedly pointing at the same stupid, unnecessary hard ceiling, and pointing out that the inexorable trend of increasing transactions has us on a clear intersect.

In the meantime, we have recently gone from things never sucking in regards to capacity, to things sucking for brief flashes of time. The issue is not how much one needs to pay to get a transaction through, the issue is that with the current block size, no more than about 350,000 transactions can be processed in a day. Period. No matter how much money is thrown at the transactions.

Here's what those two non-parallel lines would look like if the bump to 2MB occurs May 1:

Thanks! This is still the best graph.

Yes, this is still the best meaningless graph, Andre#.

You are so "spot on" lately.

I am, indeed. 

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[orpington]

We are nowhere close to "everything will suck soon" ^tm. You guys have been saying that for a year now btw.

Actually several years. We've been repeatedly pointing at the same stupid, unnecessary hard ceiling, and pointing out that the inexorable trend of increasing transactions has us on a clear intersect.

In the meantime, we have recently gone from things never sucking in regards to capacity, to things sucking for brief flashes of time. The issue is not how much one needs to pay to get a transaction through, the issue is that with the current block size, no more than about 350,000 transactions can be processed in a day. Period. No matter how much money is thrown at the transactions.

Here's what those two non-parallel lines would look like if the bump to 2MB occurs May 1:

Thanks! This is still the best graph.

Yes, this is still the best meaningless graph, Andre#.

You are so "spot on" lately.

I am, indeed. 

Yup.

Spot on toilet paper!

[valta4065]

We are nowhere close to "everything will suck soon" ^tm. You guys have been saying that for a year now btw.

Actually several years. We've been repeatedly pointing at the same stupid, unnecessary hard ceiling, and pointing out that the inexorable trend of increasing transactions has us on a clear intersect.

In the meantime, we have recently gone from things never sucking in regards to capacity, to things sucking for brief flashes of time. The issue is not how much one needs to pay to get a transaction through, the issue is that with the current block size, no more than about 350,000 transactions can be processed in a day. Period. No matter how much money is thrown at the transactions.

Here's what those two non-parallel lines would look like if the bump to 2MB occurs May 1:

Thanks! This is still the best graph.

Yes, this is still the best meaningless graph, Andre#.

You are so "spot on" lately.

I am, indeed. 

Wahou wahou wahou!

Thanks for the graph indeed, it's a good way to see things.

But what I get from this graph is that 2mb blocks would be a very temporary solution no? Is it only me?
Cause it seems like even if we go to 2mb it'll last for a few months maybe a year or two before we need another action taken.

[orpington]

We are nowhere close to "everything will suck soon" ^tm. You guys have been saying that for a year now btw.

Actually several years. We've been repeatedly pointing at the same stupid, unnecessary hard ceiling, and pointing out that the inexorable trend of increasing transactions has us on a clear intersect.

In the meantime, we have recently gone from things never sucking in regards to capacity, to things sucking for brief flashes of time. The issue is not how much one needs to pay to get a transaction through, the issue is that with the current block size, no more than about 350,000 transactions can be processed in a day. Period. No matter how much money is thrown at the transactions.

Here's what those two non-parallel lines would look like if the bump to 2MB occurs May 1:

Thanks! This is still the best graph.

Yes, this is still the best meaningless graph, Andre#.

You are so "spot on" lately.

I am, indeed. 

Wahou wahou wahou!

Thanks for the graph indeed, it's a good way to see things.

But what I get from this graph is that 2mb blocks would be a very temporary solution no? Is it only me?
Cause it seems like even if we go to 2mb it'll last for a few months maybe a year or two before we need another action taken.

You are "spot on" too. Just like Andre#!

We need 500mb blocks next week lol

[danielW]

Why does anybody push this crazy chaotic, contencious (75% 28 days) hard-fork when we have a far superior solution in segwit.

Could everybody please chill and not belive the FUD about capacity cliff. Bitcoin doing as good as ever.

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Why does anybody push this crazy chaotic, contencious (75% 28 days) hard-fork when we have a far superior solution in segwit.

Could everybody please chill and not belive the FUD about capacity cliff. Bitcoin doing as good as ever.

Because, just maybe, they dont share your blind faith?

[valta4065]

Why does anybody push this crazy chaotic, contencious (75% 28 days) hard-fork when we have a far superior solution in segwit.

Could everybody please chill and not belive the FUD about capacity cliff. Bitcoin doing as good as ever.

Because, just maybe, they dont share your blind faith?

Well in my own personal case, it's just because I never heard of that thing and have no idea of what it is.

Communication is important buddy!

[danielW]

Why does anybody push this crazy chaotic, contencious (75% 28 days) hard-fork when we have a far superior solution in segwit.

Could everybody please chill and not belive the FUD about capacity cliff. Bitcoin doing as good as ever.

Because, just maybe, they dont share your blind faith?

Blind faith in what, Gavin?  You think Segwit wont be implemented? Its already running on testnet and wallet developers are working with core devs to integrate. Most wallet devs said its relatively simple.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[sAt0sHiFanClub]

Why does anybody push this crazy chaotic, contencious (75% 28 days) hard-fork when we have a far superior solution in segwit.

Could everybody please chill and not belive the FUD about capacity cliff. Bitcoin doing as good as ever.

Because, just maybe, they dont share your blind faith?

Blind faith in what, Gavin?  You think Segwit wont be implemented? Its already running on testnet and wallet developers are working with core devs to integrate. Most wallet devs said its relatively simple.

That statement is just waffle.  Capacity and segwit are 2 different issues. Are you saying segwit is a capacity solution? I'm sure that will be news to its developers as they wrote it to solve a very different problem set.

Or are you suggesting that it is a capacity solution by virtue of its radical reformatting of block structure, and that that is in some way less risky than the 2Mb bump?

How do you feel about the segwit kludge of pushing its commitment into the coinbase tx? You ok with that design approach?  What was the motivation for it? Expediency, efficiency or just so that they would not have to sell segwit as an evil HF?
 

[ImI]

Segwit is good but its not a solution to blocksize and was never meant to be one.

LN is a solution but its far from being implemented and tested. Some say its 2-3 years from now.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[findftp]

I'd rather see some mayhem in this market first.
Let's bump the limit and see what happens.

Nobody wants to deal with this problem once this is a gazillion trillion market.
Bump this shit now, see what happens and act accordingly.

Just like you let your kids get all kinds of bacteria through playing with dirt and putting everything in their mouth.
Kids have to get sick first so they will be resilient as an adult.

If you prevent your kids to get sick by putting them in sterile surroundings, they'll die soon when they grow up...

[8up]

I'd rather see some mayhem in this market first.
Let's bump the limit and see what happens.

Nobody wants to deal with this problem once this is a gazillion trillion market.
Bump this shit now, see what happens and act accordingly.

Just like you let your kids get all kinds of bacteria through playing with dirt and putting everything in their mouth.
Kids have to get sick first so they will be resilient as an adult.

If you prevent your kids to get sick by putting them in sterile surroundings, they'll die soon when they grow up...

^^The Truth.