Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Toxic2040]

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Same old, same old. Bouncing along sideways in $8k-$9k range... currently $8580USD/$10810CAD (Bitcoinaverage).

Waiting for the spring breakout. Ho hum.

+10 WOsMerits for just being you.
Good morning Jimmie

late 50's here. and when i heard of btc in 2011 i took to the concept like a dog to a bone.

+1 WOsMerit
I think there are many of us that are closer to the end than the beginning.

dont forget us old farts have seen how the government and banks play with money "for our own good" for a long time and many of us trust the government/banks even less than the younger generation.
but maybe im an exception. lot of my friends around my age just dont get btc and wont get into it. but that may be because they generally arent a technology freak like i am. 

+1 WOsMerit
My brother-in-law is 59..great guy...but refuses to even look into the digital realms. Even after hours of debate and explanations..horse..water..?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bitcoin grew out of the cypherpunk movement, which started in the 70s-80s. A lot of pioneers of bitcoin came from that movement: Adam Back, Hal Finney, Nick Szabo, probably Satoshi Nakamoto, etc. So, Bitcoin was birthed by a bunch of old guys.

I'll also take the opportunity to rant a bit. Out of those four I mentioned, one is AWOL, one is dead, and the other two are fervent supporters of Bitcoin over BCash. Bitcoin is much more closely aligned with the original cypherpunk principles that elevate privacy and decentralization.

+1 WOsMerit

I see no ranting in those last two sentences. Every word you typed is true imo.

A seminal piece of work no?  In all honesty...one of my favorite authors.
+1 WOsMerit

Same here and jumped in 2013 building a gpu miner with borrowed money. In the young uns defence though, when i was 30, i thought 50+ was a lifetime away and technology to that age group was beyond comprehension.
Of course i was wrong, as they are now

Almost 70 here and definitely not a tech luddite.

I used to think anyone over 40 was old. Now I think anyone under 40 is a clueless kid.

No, not all kids are clueless about life just as not all seniors are clueless about technology.

One of my older friends (pushing 80) was buying bitcoins at less than $200 and still buys the dips. Needless to say he's done quite well.

+1 WOsMerit just for being a geezer. I dont really care for the racist bullshit but whatever.
I think thats great..just remind him to set something up so hes keys can be willed to whom ever.

R0ach's Utopia:

Surely those gold ingots are silver ingots with gold coating?

+1 WOsMerit 
This is great...but we need the PM's to be strapped to their backs. They have one hour to cross over the border...its 20 miles away and they have 1000lbs of their entire life savings with them. Now run!
On the other team....its Jew boy and hes Trezor...who will make it over the border first?

@R0ach  Your logic...wait..your rational is so fucked up I dont know where to start. You are showing your bias with statements like this. Once the PoW block reward end..miners will compete for transaction fees. Why do you waste your time preaching to bitcoin evangelists..on a bitcoin forum?

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[Deeyoh]

Just saw someone flash 500 BTC buy and a 500 BTC sell wall on Bitfinex at 8620.  Then bought the 500 sell. LOL

[Last of the V8s]

toxic you ancient old fuddy, you somehow put jimbo's quote under idian's name

[Toxic2040]

Is the name a reference to the Mathematician?

Its an acronym...Protocol for Indirect Controlled Access to Repository Data (PICARD). But that would be a nice thing if it was...I am not sure how many here know about algebraic surfaces tho..

toxic you ancient old fuddy, you somehow put jimbo's quote under idian's name

Im sure its all F'ed up...trying to respond to the R0ach without quoting is fun.

[itod]

Enough said:

[infofront]

If you use shapeshift.io, you might want to look into alternatives. I wonder how much this cost Bitcoin Judas?

[jojo69]

Enough said:

lol

and I still have an ABC node idling over here from extracting my BCH...time to turn that off...HA!

[greensheep]

Enough said:

woop woop, looking good

[Anon136]

Enough said:

Is this real? How do I use it? Or what is a good resource to explain how to use it?

I wonder how much this cost Bitcoin Judas?

OMG I love it!

[Wekkel]

I would like to see your projection, though.

I am favouring a scenario of a few months up to a year of lingering around $7k-15k, followed by the next hype wave. This because I do not feel that momentum in the broader perspective has been lost (to the contrary).

So a very broad view and rather positive. I do not have charts showing this.

[Toxic2040]

Is this real? How do I use it? Or what is a good resource to explain how to use it?

https://99bitcoins.com/what-is-the-bitcoin-lightning-network-a-beginners-explanation/


This is a good beginning methinks.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

If you use shapeshift.io, you might want to look into alternatives. I wonder how much this cost Bitcoin Judas?

Not going to use it again, thanks for posting this here. Hopefully Changelly isn't going to follow suit.

[infofront]

Enough said:

Is this real? How do I use it? Or what is a good resource to explain how to use it?

Run Your Own Mainnet Lightning Node

Bob and possibly a few others here have experience setting up a node. I'm looking into it as well.

[Anon136]

Is this real? How do I use it? Or what is a good resource to explain how to use it?

https://99bitcoins.com/what-is-the-bitcoin-lightning-network-a-beginners-explanation/


This is a good beginning methinks.

Understand what it is and how it works (in theory). I'm wondering how do I physically utilize those nodes in that picture to my advantage right now?

[julian071]

Great documentary about cypto's place in history (even though it's not about crypto or BTC directly).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX3M8Ka9vUA&t=59s

[d_eddie]

Is this real? How do I use it? Or what is a good resource to explain how to use it?

https://99bitcoins.com/what-is-the-bitcoin-lightning-network-a-beginners-explanation/

This is a good beginning methinks.

Understand what it is and how it works (in theory). I'm wondering how do I physically utilize those nodes in that picture to my advantage right now?

Is there a LN enabled wallet beyond beta stage? I doubt it.

I think at the moment it's a matter of lobbying for merchant adoption. Exchanges embracing it would be the best thing to happen, but I don't see it happening without strong user pressure - or possibly competition from decentralized exchanges. Just see what it took for Coinbase to upgrade to segwit and batch transactions!

[Last of the V8s]

[realr0ach]

Meanwhile one of my younger friends in his 20s can't seem to understand Bitcoin. He thinks it's some kind of pyramid/Ponzi scam and that "the government" will "shut it down". Meanwhile he alternates between Mom's couch in Toronto and Dad's winter place in Thailand trying to get rich playing online poker. All this for a kid with a tested IQ over 180. Go figure.

Wow.  A poker player with an IQ over 180?   Very surprising he does not "get" bitcoin.

You are the one that does not "get" bitcoin.  Even if you ignore the fact that it's designed to completely centralize, bitcoin is 100% guaranteed to die the closer the block reward gets to zero.  Why?  Because a static block reward subsidizes all transactions just like a govt subsidy.  The second it's gone, people will just move to a different chain that still has a block reward subsidizing it, or to some other system that doesn't have the overhead of PoW since they're all designed to centralize anyway.  So yes, bitcoin actually is a Ponzi because PoW is not sustainable since you CANNOT prevent competitor chains from taking it's market once subsidy is gone.

Subsidizing miners with block rewards only makes it more difficult to perform a doublespend or a denial of service attack by producing empty blocks. It doesn't really motivate people to use the chain. Normal users are ignorant of how bitcoin works under the hood. They don't care about this stuff. They would only care if someone did successfully doublespend or DOS the block chain. So as long as transaction fees are sufficient to incentivize miners to collectively produce enough hashing power to prevent this than there is no reason to expect the drop off in block rewards to negatively effect bitcoin in any way.

Jesus Christ you cultists are dense.  Since you failed to comprehend what I said, let me spell it out for you in simple math.  Bitcoin currently spends $112,500 every 10 minutes in order to attempt to secure the chain (obviously unsustainable).  Some would argue this is overdoing it and the chain could get by with much less security (it's not really "security" since it's designed to centralize, but we will overlook that for now).  Let's give bitcoin the benefit of the doubt and make believe at full maturity, it could get by with 1/10th of that, or blowing $10,000 on PoW every 10 minutes without getting "owned".

As you can see from that unsustainable $112k figure, the block reward provides Bitcoin with it's security model by BORROWING from the future to subsidize the present via unsustainable Ponzi.  The second you remove the block reward, your security is no longer free (or rather Ponzi derived security where people make believe buying now automatically gives them more value in the future), but then shifts the security from a borrowing from the future model to where only the present matters.

Once only the present matters, if people are not willing to shell out $10k per 10 minutes to have miners process their transactions/secure the chain (or whatever arbitrary number you come up with), then bitcoin dies and no longer exists.  $10k per 10 minutes is a pretty large overhead, and there is no actual reason for end users to subsidize that.  They can simply go to a different chain where a block reward still exists, thus getting their transactions processed cheaper by joining a different Ponzi that's still running.  

The fact you cannot prevent people from fleeing Bitcoin once it's mining subsidy craters to get their transactions processed cheaper somewhere else is why bitcoin 100% inevitably dies once block reward gets closer to zero.  In reality, the most likely outcome would be bitcoin converting to something like proof of stake to try and prevent collapse.  PoW and PoS are all designed to centralize garbage, but PoW attempts to get by with a "decentralized" meme by being an open entropy system (that is centralized through economy of scale and the large knowledge and capital reserves required to build the foundries and chips).  If bitcoin is forced to convert to PoS just to survive (closed entropy systems cannot even pretend to be decentralized like bitcoin pretends to now), the whole thing was obviously an unsustainable Ponzi scam in the first place.

[macsga]

Is this real? How do I use it? Or what is a good resource to explain how to use it?

https://99bitcoins.com/what-is-the-bitcoin-lightning-network-a-beginners-explanation/


This is a good beginning methinks.

Understand what it is and how it works (in theory). I'm wondering how do I physically utilize those nodes in that picture to my advantage right now?

I believe it can be done via scripting only for now, and ONLY on testnet. The ability of fast "direct" transactions and minimum fees is something everybody wants and fast. AFAIK, (haven't been following this to be honest) there's no release date yet. But, from an article I've read the LN needs to be thoroughly tested prior release (any different input is greatly appreciated). At these prices the problem of having a bug and release it out in the open is not recommended...

PS: Yes, I'm back... (kinda)  

[Anon136]

Is there a LN enabled wallet beyond beta stage? I doubt it.

I think at the moment it's a matter of lobbying for merchant adoption. Exchanges embracing it would be the best thing to happen, but I don't see it happening without strong user pressure - or possibly competition from decentralized exchanges. Just see what it took for Coinbase to upgrade to segwit and batch transactions!

Ah ok. Lame. There probably wont be pressure until transaction fees get too high again. But I expect there should and will be a great deal of pressure once that happens.

I believe it can be done via scripting only for now, and ONLY on testnet. The ability of fast "direct" transactions and minimum fees is something everybody wants and fast. AFAIK, (haven't been following this to be honest) there's no release date yet. But, from an article I've read the LN needs to be thoroughly tested prior release (any different input is greatly appreciated). At these prices the problem of having a bug and release it out in the open is not recommended...

Thanks for the clarification.