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Question: Is this the last time we see sub-$10K?
Yes - 26 (44.8%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21528462 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (142 posts by 32 users deleted.)
HairyMaclairy
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July 17, 2018, 09:39:36 AM


gonna be weird when people wake up and see it was never black or white, red or blue,

it is about being transparent or corrupt, centralized or decentralized and it works every time


People are not going to wake up when they are still willing to be told what is right and wrong by other people rather than thinking for themselves. This is why I mentioned that particular documentary, because it delves into that, which Hairy could benefit from listening to.


I値l genuinely try to watch it. 
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somac.
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July 17, 2018, 10:01:13 AM


gonna be weird when people wake up and see it was never black or white, red or blue,

it is about being transparent or corrupt, centralized or decentralized and it works every time


People are not going to wake up when they are still willing to be told what is right and wrong by other people rather than thinking for themselves. This is why I mentioned that particular documentary, because it delves into that, which Hairy could benefit from listening to.


I値l genuinely try to watch it.  

That's good, I think you'll like it. It's 4 parts, so set aside almost 4 hours all up. It is basically about the history of PR and marketing spanning corporations but also politics. In the first episode there is a bit talking about getting women to smoke, that's where it starts getting interesting.

And of course it is on youtube.
Last of the V8s
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July 17, 2018, 10:05:20 AM

Wait what? Hairy, are you actually a socialist? I thought it was just an act all this time.
What business do you have on a bitcoin forum?
Syke
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July 17, 2018, 10:26:06 AM

USA intelligence is the thing you distrust the most of anything.

No, I distrust Putin more than the USA intelligence. Just move the White House to Moscow already.
kurious
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July 17, 2018, 10:32:18 AM



Sweet. Merited.
bitserve
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July 17, 2018, 10:37:19 AM

Looking forward to some quality Schnorr FUD from Jbear and crew.  

I don't know why you'd think that. I don't believe I have previously espoused an opinion on Schnorr sigs.

You basically said Schnorr signatures would do nothing to alleviate the scaling issue. That would qualify as an opinion.

Hmm. I guess you know more about my past postings than do I. Link?

Schnorr can obviously reduce the size of txs that have multiple elements. I wouldn't say that is 'nothing'. If this be shown to be a reversal of a previously held opinion, then so be it.

Of course, my final opinion would be driven by an analysis of not merely the benefits of Schnorr, but also its costs.

edit: Oh - I see you've added the link. Thank you. I shall quote:

Quote
Currently it would take over 30 years to send each person on earth a single Bitcoin transaction. Think about that.

Lightning does nothing to alleviate that.
Segwit does nothing to alleviate that.
Schnorr sigs does nothing to alleviate that.

True enough. If you wish to send every person on earth a single Bitcoin tx (e.g., perhaps to open an LN channel), it will take on the order of three decades. And Schnorr indeed does nothing to alleviate that. It is a true statement, and it is not identical to "Schnorr signatures would do nothing to alleviate the scaling issue".

Your assertion is shown to be false.

After re-reading your post I stand corrected on my interpretation and agree you were referring to a very extreme theoretical scenario where all the block space is used exclusively for opening channels for every person on earth.

I am glad to hear you agree that Schnorr signatures could have some impact on scaling improvement depending on circumstances.

Oh Fuck me, Bitserve.   You are much more gentlemanly than me or even the member that has such a username....  Wink Wink

I understand that you were probably being a bit sarcastic, but think about a lot of these fucking troll nutjobs and bitcoin doomsdayers, they often take a scenario that has less than a 1% chance of occurring, and impliedly place it at much greater odds - and furthermore they presume that the development is kind of in a stasis and the evolution will occur in the coming days without tit and tat developments along the way to pretty much negate their pie in the sky supposed scenario from playing out.

Well, yes, maybe a bit sarcastic but, at the same time, it is *logically true* that my *literal* assertion proved "false" as it was not identical to what he said.

I could have started arguing over the subtleties such as even in that ridiculously extreme theoretical scenario Schnorr sigs would in fact "alleviate" (reduce) the time needed... but then he would have replied that it wouldn't because he already was considering ONLY single input tx's... and so on....

So... what would be the point of arguing when jbreher already conceded that Schnorr signatures do "obviously reduce the size of txs that have multiple elements"?

Sometimes enough is enough Wink
HairyMaclairy
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July 17, 2018, 10:41:14 AM

Wait what? Hairy, are you actually a socialist? I thought it was just an act all this time.
What business do you have on a bitcoin forum?

No I知 a leftie.  Which means I want to disrupt the banks and break up the cozy corporatist monopolies and bust big pharma and big healthcare. We can start by dangerously giving free healthcare to poor people. Libertarians beware ! If poor people starting voting they might vote your sorry Rand Paul-Putin apologist ass out of office. 
ccminer.net
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July 17, 2018, 10:50:12 AM

what is going on?
who is buying right now, and why?
For ETF, for the Koreans?
JayJuanGee
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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July 17, 2018, 10:51:03 AM

[Edited out]
what would be the point of arguing when jbreher already conceded that Schnorr signatures do "obviously reduce the size of txs that have multiple elements"?

The point would be to get caught up into the trees of irrelevance, and miss the forest.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Sometimes enough is enough Wink

Not with jbreher.  If you start to agree about the trees, then he will drag you down to the grasses in order that you even forget that there was a forest.   Wink
HairyMaclairy
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July 17, 2018, 10:52:20 AM

what is going on?
who is buying right now, and why?
For ETF, for the Koreans?

It痴 because the MA is crossing on the daily. Buy the rumour, sell the news. It will go to shit once it properly crosses.  

kurious
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July 17, 2018, 10:52:21 AM

Well if peace means surrender, including siding with Putin against the findings of the Republican controlled Senate Intelligence Committee, then yes. After all, there痴 nothing wrong with cock sucking. I知 sure many find it quite tasty. I certainly hope my wife does.

Merited.  I think even the GOP is horrified.  In his own party there is speculation as to whether Putin has something on him. In a world of conspiracy stories and 'fake news', where do I file this?

And the EU is now a 'foe' of the United States.  Astounding.  I am sure most of my life I was taught the Americans were allies of Western Europe.  Should I consider going for some weapons training? I mean, a hell of a lot of Americans seem to be visiting places near where I live. There's even a US military base not so far away. 

And that is not ALL sarcasm. It's just you really couldn't make this stuff up.




bitserve
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July 17, 2018, 11:05:59 AM

[Edited out]
what would be the point of arguing when jbreher already conceded that Schnorr signatures do "obviously reduce the size of txs that have multiple elements"?

The point would be to get caught up into the trees of irrelevance, and miss the forest.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Sometimes enough is enough Wink

Not with jbreher.  If you start to agree about the trees, then he will drag you down to the grasses in order that you even forget that there was a forest.   Wink

Again, I got "Schnorr can obviously reduce the size of txs that have multiple elements".

Whatcha got??  Tongue
HairyMaclairy
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July 17, 2018, 11:15:51 AM

This guy wrote a random sea shell generator

https://twitter.com/bggoodell/status/1018925788647706624?s=21
sirazimuth
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July 17, 2018, 11:17:19 AM
Merited by jbreher (1)


No I知 a leftie....
Well I知 a rightie myself,though unlike most righties who shoot from the left,
I知 like a leftie and shoot from the right.However, most righties bat from the
right and likewise,I do too,except when I look in the mirror, it痴 all reversed!
Imagine that!
My goodness, isn稚 the universe strange?!...
lightfoot
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July 17, 2018, 11:26:50 AM

USA intelligence is the thing you distrust the most of anything.

No, I distrust Putin more than the USA intelligence. Just move the White House to Moscow already.
Don't worry, I'm sure the KGB will send over election "observers" to help out in November.....
vroom
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July 17, 2018, 11:31:23 AM

This guy wrote a random sea shell generator

https://twitter.com/bggoodell/status/1018925788647706624?s=21

please explain what this is. I wasted my time drawing this quality image instead of searching for a definition.

HairyMaclairy
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July 17, 2018, 11:41:51 AM

Haha I知 not sure my link is better

It turns a crypto currency address into a unique 3D coloured seashell so you can instantly compare two addresses to see if they exactly match.  A slight tweak to the address gives a sea shell that looks completely different.
bitserve
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July 17, 2018, 12:03:57 PM

Haha I知 not sure my link is better

It turns a crypto currency address into a unique 3D coloured seashell so you can instantly compare two addresses to see if they exactly match.  A slight tweak to the address gives a sea shell that looks completely different.

Which doesn't mean it wouldn't be even easier to find "collisions" indistinguishable to the human eye in the seashell generation algorithm than it is to find a large enough collision to induce confusion in the string comparison. In fact, even if you only take the first four and last chars for comparison that can probably generate many look-alike seashells.

Original idea though, but if something like this was being used widespread and people started relaying just on the seashell look-alike comparison it would soon start to be exploited easily.

P.S.: On second though maybe not that easily depending on the complexity of the *3D* generation algorithm.
vroom
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July 17, 2018, 12:05:16 PM

Haha I知 not sure my link is better

It turns a crypto currency address into a unique 3D coloured seashell so you can instantly compare two addresses to see if they exactly match.  A slight tweak to the address gives a sea shell that looks completely different.

that's a neat idea for comparing addresses. comparing only a part of the address is not really secure. thanks for the description.
HairyMaclairy
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July 17, 2018, 12:11:11 PM

Haha I知 not sure my link is better

It turns a crypto currency address into a unique 3D coloured seashell so you can instantly compare two addresses to see if they exactly match.  A slight tweak to the address gives a sea shell that looks completely different.

Which doesn't mean it wouldn't be even easier to find "collisions" indistinguishable to the human eye in the seashell generation algorithm than it is to find a large enough collision to induce confusion in the string comparison. In fact, even if you only take the first four and last chars for comparison that can probably generate many look-alike seashells.

Original idea though, but if something like this was being used widespread and people started relaying just on the seashell look-alike comparison it would soon start to be exploited easily.

P.S.: On second though maybe not that easily depending on the complexity of the *3D* generation algorithm.

He discusses collisions in the Twitter string.  Anyway it痴 just a POC atm.
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