Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

... and really some of the extent of your drama or exaggeration seems to be attempting to cause an effect rather than really talking about the real state of bitcoin today.

That's partially true and I'll be the first to admit it. I want the price to go down IF it leads to cause the core devs to implement a workable scale patch or else leads to some other group replacing them. I want bitcoin to succeed as an electronic peer to peer cash system as it was designed, not as some cloistered settlement network only used by the same assholes who run the current system. 

Fiat money is debt. It is lent into existence. That makes the entire global financial system a giant pyramid scheme. I don't have to wish for economic Armageddon to see one coming (or more likely a series of disasters  eventually having the same effect). I don't have to cause it or contribute to causing it. It's going to happen as a mathematical certainty.  If we don't find a way to escape the system, we will go down with it.   

A network capacity of seven transactions/sec is a life boat with very few seats.

Point taken there, and in that regard, I must admit that I have some sympathy for your thinking that you want to pressure some folks in the BTC development and political space to get with the program and to agree to the adoption of some workable long term solution that allows BTC to move forward rather than stagnating in some much lesser tier than it should occupy.


and yes, maybe I agree that it is going to be more difficult to foresee to da moon and/or CCMF, when the direction forward remains with some (maybe too much) in fighting concerning direction forward.

[Fatman3001]

Is it still time to hire some strippers (of both sexes, of course) for that kumbaya session devs are having in Canada?

Nerd egos are stubborn things, might be a good idea to soften up the mood. Make 'em mellow.

[billyjoeallen]

... and really some of the extent of your drama or exaggeration seems to be attempting to cause an effect rather than really talking about the real state of bitcoin today.

That's partially true and I'll be the first to admit it. I want the price to go down IF it leads to cause the core devs to implement a workable scale patch or else leads to some other group replacing them. I want bitcoin to succeed as an electronic peer to peer cash system as it was designed, not as some cloistered settlement network only used by the same assholes who run the current system. 

Fiat money is debt. It is lent into existence. That makes the entire global financial system a giant pyramid scheme. I don't have to wish for economic Armageddon to see one coming (or more likely a series of disasters  eventually having the same effect). I don't have to cause it or contribute to causing it. It's going to happen as a mathematical certainty.  If we don't find a way to escape the system, we will go down with it.   

A network capacity of seven transactions/sec is a life boat with very few seats.

Because this argument surfaces here all the time, I'll down put my thoughts on how this whole scaling issue is a problem that only exists because Bitcoin, or it's community, doesn't know to have a relationship with other coins. Let's say you have a Merchant that takes Litecoins, Quark, whatever as a peer to peer cash system at their place of business. At the end of the business day, the merchant consolidates their transactions into one Bitcoin transaction. This seems to be the same scenario that is being talked about as a 'Lightning Sidechain', except Core developers aren't invoking the dirty word of 'altcoin'. In this case, Bitcoin doesn't need to fork, because it isn't trying to be a single solution to this problem, and I'm not sure BIP 100, BIP 101 or whatever will enable Bitcoin to cope with this 'Mass Adoption' scenario anyway.

The network can only handle about half a million transactions per day reliably. Even IF we used alts for purchases and Bitcoin for settlements, it still wouldn't be fast enough.  Money is useful because it eliminated the need for a double coincidence of wants under barter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence_of_wants.  There has to be a "most marketable commodity" and that commodity is by definition "money".  If ANY crypto becomes money, it can only do so if the network has the capacity to handle that function. 

We're not even close to dealing with "mass adoption" yet.  We need enough capacity to avoid gridlock before we even get started on that. 

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Norway]

Is it still time to hire some strippers (of both sexes, of course) for that kumbaya session devs are having in Canada?

Nerd egos are stubborn things, might be a good idea to soften up the mood. Make 'em mellow.

Still time? The Backpage-situation graduated all the exotic dancers in Bitcoin 101. International payments to Canada to these entrepeneurs only take seconds / minutes (depending on of much they trust zero confirmations).

And they start saturday! Plenty of time! Let's feed those bras with digital cash!  

Hopefully, on monday you all will understand that scaling is not a big problem. Because all miners/nodes/pools/whatever do NOT need to confirm every bleeping transaction. The computer work can be easily shared. The big work isn't processing transactions. It's mining.  

[Wary]

Because this argument surfaces here all the time, I'll down put my thoughts on how this whole scaling issue is a problem that only exists because Bitcoin, or it's community, doesn't know to have a relationship with other coins. Let's say you have a Merchant that takes Litecoins, Quark, whatever as a peer to peer cash system at their place of business. At the end of the business day, the merchant consolidates their transactions into one Bitcoin transaction. This seems to be the same scenario that is being talked about as a 'Lightning Sidechain', except Core developers aren't invoking the dirty word of 'altcoin'. In this case, Bitcoin doesn't need to fork, because it isn't trying to be a single solution to this problem, and I'm not sure BIP 100, BIP 101 or whatever will enable Bitcoin to cope with this 'Mass Adoption' scenario anyway.

BY the way, consolidating thousands transactions into one won't necessarily save space. Instead of thousand small transactions, we will have one big one, but it must contain the same amount of information (who paid to whom) and therefore will take the same amount of space on blockchain. (Well, in case of a coffeehouse, the destination will be the same, but origin will be different, so the compression will be 1:2, rather than 1:1000. So it is not the solution).

I can see no way everybody's computers (and smartphones!) can keep everybody's transactions. Not at current network/processor/memory capacity. Increasing blocksize limit won't solve this problem, it will just make it more obvious.

To resolve the scalability problem we have to distribute transaction records in such a way that every transaction stored not on all computers, but on a small part of them. For example, every block is stored on 1000 randomly chosen nodes. The rest of nodes (billions of them) keep only header of it. Such network can grow indefinitely without affecting storage capacity requirements. When bandwith/storage capacity will grow, the 1000 will become 2,000, 10,000 etc. etc.

[GreekGeek]

has anyone seen this?

http://www.pressexaminer.com/bitcoin-might-face-a-new-challenge-in-two-days-from-now/73854

[ElectricMucus]

Because this argument surfaces here all the time, I'll down put my thoughts on how this whole scaling issue is a problem that only exists because Bitcoin, or it's community, doesn't know to have a relationship with other coins. Let's say you have a Merchant that takes Litecoins, Quark, whatever as a peer to peer cash system at their place of business. At the end of the business day, the merchant consolidates their transactions into one Bitcoin transaction. This seems to be the same scenario that is being talked about as a 'Lightning Sidechain', except Core developers aren't invoking the dirty word of 'altcoin'. In this case, Bitcoin doesn't need to fork, because it isn't trying to be a single solution to this problem, and I'm not sure BIP 100, BIP 101 or whatever will enable Bitcoin to cope with this 'Mass Adoption' scenario anyway.

BY the way, consolidating thousands transactions into one won't necessarily save space. Instead of thousand small transactions, we will have one big one, but it must contain the same amount of information (who paid to whom) and therefore will take the same amount of space on blockchain. (Well, in case of a coffeehouse, the destination will be the same, but origin will be different, so the compression will be 1:2, rather than 1:1000. So it is not the solution).

I can see no way everybody's computers (and smartphones!) can keep everybody's transactions. Not at current network/processor/memory capacity. Increasing blocksize limit won't solve this problem, it will just make it more obvious.

To resolve the scalability problem we have to distribute transaction records in such a way that every transaction stored not on all computers, but on a small part of them. For example, every block is stored on 1000 randomly chosen nodes. The rest of nodes (billions of them) keep only header of it. Such network can grow indefinitely without affecting storage capacity requirements. When bandwith/storage capacity will grow, the 1000 will become 2,000, 10,000 etc. etc.

This much is obvious, although hardliners who insist that the entire block chain must be verifiable  on every node will torpedo any attempt to make that happen,

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Norway]

snip

snippety snip

To resolve the scalability problem we have to distribute transaction records in such a way that every transaction stored not on all computers, but on a small part of them. For example, every block is stored on 1000 randomly chosen nodes. The rest of nodes (billions of them) keep only header of it. Such network can grow indefinitely without affecting storage capacity requirements. When bandwith/storage capacity will grow, the 1000 will become 2,000, 10,000 etc. etc.

I agree that the workload must be distributed. Not just storage capacity, but also processing power and bandwidth. (But not mining, he he. That is the work that has to be hard.)

It should not be done randomly, but deterministic based on the characteristics of the transaction. Making a tree. That is easy to validate.


EDIT: I'm (bit)coining the expression now. The block tree! 

[billyjoeallen]

Is it still time to hire some strippers (of both sexes, of course) for that kumbaya session devs are having in Canada?

Nerd egos are stubborn things, might be a good idea to soften up the mood. Make 'em mellow.

Still time? The Backpage-situation graduated all the exotic dancers in Bitcoin 101. International payments to Canada to these entrepeneurs only take seconds / minutes (depending on of much they trust zero confirmations).

And they start saturday! Plenty of time! Let's feed those bras with digital cash!  

Hopefully, on monday you all will understand that scaling is not a big problem. Because all miners/nodes/pools/whatever do NOT need to confirm every bleeping transaction. The computer work can be easily shared. The big work isn't processing transactions. It's mining.  

I suspect backpagers buy the majority of my coins on bitquick.co.  it's nice because I can arbitrage the spread and buy back immediately at a lower rate on an exchange, but of course I'm really just selling my risk of getting my bank account seized in the event that some bureaucrat somewhere decides it's money laundering and retroactively applies the decision to me. So I have to constantly drain the account to minimize the risk. I also have to buy back in immediately to minimize the exchange rate risk because the most buyers come in during an uptrend.  A five dollar bump in three hours can wipe out any profit.

buying gas cards on purse.io is similarly problematic. I get a ~20% discount on the card, but I have to exchange the gamestop card for a shell card at a brick-and-mortar store which takes time and money, THEN I can only buy fuel at Shell stations which typically overcharge ~5% for fuel.

Once I have enough profit to cover living expenses, I crank up the premium I ask for on bitquick and crank up the discount I demand on purse.io.  If nobody bites, it's no big deal. If they do, that's less work for me in the future.

Arbitraging is the only way I know to make profits without burning through my stack, except of course lending out coins on bfx but the vig is still pretty low. For bigger profits that that, one must OBSERVE THE WALL and get lucky.

[brg444]

... and really some of the extent of your drama or exaggeration seems to be attempting to cause an effect rather than really talking about the real state of bitcoin today.

That's partially true and I'll be the first to admit it. I want the price to go down IF it leads to cause the core devs to implement a workable scale patch or else leads to some other group replacing them. I want bitcoin to succeed as an electronic peer to peer cash system as it was designed, not as some cloistered settlement network only used by the same assholes who run the current system. 

Fiat money is debt. It is lent into existence. That makes the entire global financial system a giant pyramid scheme. I don't have to wish for economic Armageddon to see one coming (or more likely a series of disasters  eventually having the same effect). I don't have to cause it or contribute to causing it. It's going to happen as a mathematical certainty.  If we don't find a way to escape the system, we will go down with it.   

A network capacity of seven transactions/sec is a life boat with very few seats.

All money is debt, bro

What do you know about Bitcoin anyway?

How's that supposed to work? How many "blockspace" do I get for 1 bitcoin?

Easy. 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain.  I answered your question, now you answer mine. If I'm not buying space on the blockchain when I'm buying bitcoin, what am I buying?

[Norway]

Is it still time to hire some strippers (of both sexes, of course) for that kumbaya session devs are having in Canada?

Nerd egos are stubborn things, might be a good idea to soften up the mood. Make 'em mellow.

Still time? The Backpage-situation graduated all the exotic dancers in Bitcoin 101. International payments to Canada to these entrepeneurs only take seconds / minutes (depending on of much they trust zero confirmations).

And they start saturday! Plenty of time! Let's feed those bras with digital cash!  

Hopefully, on monday you all will understand that scaling is not a big problem. Because all miners/nodes/pools/whatever do NOT need to confirm every bleeping transaction. The computer work can be easily shared. The big work isn't processing transactions. It's mining.  

I suspect backpagers buy the majority of my coins on bitquick.co.  it's nice because I can arbitrage the spread and buy back immediately at a lower rate on an exchange, but of course I'm really just selling my risk of getting my bank account seized in the event that some bureaucrat somewhere decides it's money laundering and retroactively applies the decision to me. So I have to constantly drain the account to minimize the risk. I also have to buy back in immediately to minimize the exchange rate risk because the most buyers come in during an uptrend.  A five dollar bump in three hours can wipe out any profit.

buying gas cards on purse.io is similarly problematic. I get a ~20% discount on the card, but I have to exchange the gamestop card for a shell card at a brick-and-mortar store which takes time and money, THEN I can only buy fuel at Shell stations which typically overcharge ~5% for fuel.

Once I have enough profit to cover living expenses, I crank up the premium I ask for on bitquick and crank up the discount I demand on purse.io.  If nobody bites, it's no big deal. If they do, that's less work for me in the future.

Arbitraging is the only way I know to make profits without burning through my stack, except of course lending out coins on bfx but the vig is still pretty low. For bigger profits that that, one must OBSERVE THE WALL and get lucky.

Chill, BJ! Life is fun! "Sell" your coins to them at a hotel room!

[HerrAndreas]

has anyone seen this?

http://www.pressexaminer.com/bitcoin-might-face-a-new-challenge-in-two-days-from-now/73854

Yes.
I.
now that you posted the link.

[Norway]

has anyone seen this?

http://www.pressexaminer.com/bitcoin-might-face-a-new-challenge-in-two-days-from-now/73854

Yes.
I.
now that you posted the link.

TLDR, ELI5: It's about the upcoming nuclear attack / stress test. Nothing new. (Unless you haven't heard about it yet.)

[HerrAndreas]

Is it still time to hire some strippers (of both sexes, of course) for that kumbaya session devs are having in Canada?

Nerd egos are stubborn things, might be a good idea to soften up the mood. Make 'em mellow.

Still time? The Backpage-situation graduated all the exotic dancers in Bitcoin 101. International payments to Canada to these entrepeneurs only take seconds / minutes (depending on of much they trust zero confirmations).

And they start saturday! Plenty of time! Let's feed those bras with digital cash!  

Hopefully, on monday you all will understand that scaling is not a big problem. Because all miners/nodes/pools/whatever do NOT need to confirm every bleeping transaction. The computer work can be easily shared. The big work isn't processing transactions. It's mining.  

I suspect backpagers buy the majority of my coins on bitquick.co.  it's nice because I can arbitrage the spread and buy back immediately at a lower rate on an exchange, but of course I'm really just selling my risk of getting my bank account seized in the event that some bureaucrat somewhere decides it's money laundering and retroactively applies the decision to me. So I have to constantly drain the account to minimize the risk. I also have to buy back in immediately to minimize the exchange rate risk because the most buyers come in during an uptrend.  A five dollar bump in three hours can wipe out any profit.

buying gas cards on purse.io is similarly problematic. I get a ~20% discount on the card, but I have to exchange the gamestop card for a shell card at a brick-and-mortar store which takes time and money, THEN I can only buy fuel at Shell stations which typically overcharge ~5% for fuel.

Once I have enough profit to cover living expenses, I crank up the premium I ask for on bitquick and crank up the discount I demand on purse.io.  If nobody bites, it's no big deal. If they do, that's less work for me in the future.

Arbitraging is the only way I know to make profits without burning through my stack, except of course lending out coins on bfx but the vig is still pretty low. For bigger profits that that, one must OBSERVE THE WALL and get lucky.

I feel with you.
I am right now starting to get out of arbitraging.
Have been doing this since late 2013 for a living.
If you you allow for my directness, but maybe you should consider having a plan "B".

Arbitraging has not only now become the same armsrace as has mining, but also the possible profits are limited and with adoption there are simply too many participants to make more than pocketmoney.
Not speaking of frozen fiatfunds and several banks shutting their door in you face (been there, done that) and sending your money to Lithunania and ofcourse Estonia (Panama City anyone ).
Strangers keeping your funds for no good reason, but that they unfortunately bought a ferrari before real profits actually did come in.

magic gathering, pireat et al. anyone?
[what ever became of "catpay" by Ullus Corp, who alsao ran hitbtc who at some point exchanged fiat on your account there for new AML rules? .....]
Ever did an irl deal worth more than 10 BTC with a complete stranger in a subway station?

dont fuck with the taxman.
dont fuck with morals.

and most importantly:
dont fuck with common sense.

best,

dha.

[BitofaN1]

has anyone seen this?

http://www.pressexaminer.com/bitcoin-might-face-a-new-challenge-in-two-days-from-now/73854

Yes.
I.
now that you posted the link.

TLDR, ELI5: It's about the upcoming nuclear attack / stress test. Nothing new. (Unless you haven't heard about it yet.)

Is everyone gonna sell because of this? I mean, even if it's gonna create a few days worth of backlog many will panic, me thinks.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Norway]

has anyone seen this?

http://www.pressexaminer.com/bitcoin-might-face-a-new-challenge-in-two-days-from-now/73854

Yes.
I.
now that you posted the link.

TLDR, ELI5: It's about the upcoming nuclear attack / stress test. Nothing new. (Unless you haven't heard about it yet.)

Is everyone gonna sell because of this? I mean, even if it's gonna create a few days worth of backlog many will panic, me thinks.

I don't know short term. Could go both ways, or not relate to it.
BUT: (WARNING! TRADING ADVICE!) A clear voice about how easy scaling really is on monday after this weekend's scaling conference in Canada could change the long term expectations of bitcoin performance and send it to the cheese planet.

EDIT: Sorry, my bad. A moon is not a planet 

[billyjoeallen]

Is it still time to hire some strippers (of both sexes, of course) for that kumbaya session devs are having in Canada?

Nerd egos are stubborn things, might be a good idea to soften up the mood. Make 'em mellow.

Still time? The Backpage-situation graduated all the exotic dancers in Bitcoin 101. International payments to Canada to these entrepeneurs only take seconds / minutes (depending on of much they trust zero confirmations).

And they start saturday! Plenty of time! Let's feed those bras with digital cash!  

Hopefully, on monday you all will understand that scaling is not a big problem. Because all miners/nodes/pools/whatever do NOT need to confirm every bleeping transaction. The computer work can be easily shared. The big work isn't processing transactions. It's mining.  

I suspect backpagers buy the majority of my coins on bitquick.co.  it's nice because I can arbitrage the spread and buy back immediately at a lower rate on an exchange, but of course I'm really just selling my risk of getting my bank account seized in the event that some bureaucrat somewhere decides it's money laundering and retroactively applies the decision to me. So I have to constantly drain the account to minimize the risk. I also have to buy back in immediately to minimize the exchange rate risk because the most buyers come in during an uptrend.  A five dollar bump in three hours can wipe out any profit.

buying gas cards on purse.io is similarly problematic. I get a ~20% discount on the card, but I have to exchange the gamestop card for a shell card at a brick-and-mortar store which takes time and money, THEN I can only buy fuel at Shell stations which typically overcharge ~5% for fuel.

Once I have enough profit to cover living expenses, I crank up the premium I ask for on bitquick and crank up the discount I demand on purse.io.  If nobody bites, it's no big deal. If they do, that's less work for me in the future.

Arbitraging is the only way I know to make profits without burning through my stack, except of course lending out coins on bfx but the vig is still pretty low. For bigger profits that that, one must OBSERVE THE WALL and get lucky.

Chill, BJ! Life is fun! "Sell" your coins to them at a hotel room!

To me, that would be like walking past apple trees to buy apples at the store. Plenty of slutty girls out there give it up for a drink or two.  Here's the trick:
1. Be around 'em
2. Ignore them
3. Look like you're having more fun than them.

Hell, sometimes they buy ME drinks.