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Question: Price Target for Nov. 30, 2024:
<$75K - 1 (2.7%)
$75K to $80K - 1 (2.7%)
$80K to $85K - 0 (0%)
$85K to $90K - 7 (18.9%)
$90K to $95K - 12 (32.4%)
$95K to $100K - 4 (10.8%)
>$100K - 12 (32.4%)
Total Voters: 37

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26492169 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
xhomerx10
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December 27, 2021, 06:53:46 PM
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lets go

 Let's go, Bitcoin.  I agree!
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December 27, 2021, 07:01:26 PM


Explanation
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December 27, 2021, 07:15:30 PM

Haha funny vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceR1dGuplfo has it been posted before? Also, would be nice to see part 2 in 2022.  Grin
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December 27, 2021, 07:31:03 PM

Not really, of course, right now, but in 1981, the interest rate was 15.8%, imagine that.

Savings accounts died in 1971. Numerous investment opportunities exist for those who do their own research.

Sure, but there is no guarantee. Typically, when talking about retirement funds, people don't talk about some active investment schemes.
Of course, you can get VTI and get 7% average (over long term), but to get 10-20% year in and out, those are more aggressive strategies (preferred's, selling calls, REITs, etc., etc.), which are NOT guaranteed.
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December 27, 2021, 07:53:54 PM

Something tells me January is going to be a good month, and most of 2022 even better, until then price might stagnate a bit. Likewise if the year closes below $48K support, price might be in trouble.

Regarding your point about January and 2022 overall.  It could be that January will be good, but hard to really say how far into 2022 that "good" is going to play out.

I imagine that when you say "most of 2022," you are suggesting that BTC prices may well be getting into new ATHs and continuing to have some UPpity price pressures.. and maybe even having some kind of a top in 2022 that is reasonably higher than our already existing top of $69k.. and maybe even having a decent amount of sustainability that is meaningfully higher than $69k.. whether that ends up playing out as a blow off top (which you seem to be less inclined towards suggesting to be in the near-term bitcoin cards) or some other kinds of BTC price moves that at least bring us into the 6 digits..

Personally, I am considering that at some point there is going to be some kind of a blow-off top that is likely to be greater than 3x from where we are currently, and surely why not something like a 5x to 8x or greater blow off top, since we seemed to have had so much decent consolidation since our 6.5x rise from September 2020.. to the extent that we might able to consider that September 2020 price arena as a kind of base starting out point.

Regarding your mentioning of closing of the year and $48k as a potential pivot point, I hardly find that kind of pivot point as being significant whatsoever.. Surely, we ONLY have a bit more than 4 days left in the year (depending on timezone).  Maybe we should attempt to figure out some kind of a timezone that is universally acceptable.. ... UTC seems to be good since so many charting services seem to use it for the closing of the candles, right?. 

Anyhow, I recognize that sometimes some of us repeat ourselves, including yours truly, but I still hardly see any price moves as significant between $42k and $62k.. especially if we are anywhere somewhat in the middle of that... so yeah if we start to get within a few thousand of $42k or $62k then we are getting to the outside of the range that I consider that currently we are in... so maybe I might thereby assert that getting below $45k or above $58k starts to become important to consider that we might be within reach of going outside of our current range... and sure maybe in that sense I am trying to remain somewhat less inclined towards creating frameworks for my lil selfie to get excited about what seems to be shorter term possible price moves or fear factoring that might happen within what I conceive of our current $42k to $62k price range.  In other words.. maybe wake me up when we get close to breaking out on either side, otherwise movements within the range are largely noise to me, even if I might get a wee bit more excited if there is a relatively BIG move within the range.. that ends up almost getting close to one end of the range or another...
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December 27, 2021, 08:01:27 PM


Explanation
bitebits
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December 27, 2021, 08:03:02 PM
Merited by fillippone (2), JayJuanGee (1), jojo69 (1)



Quote
Executive order 6102 was the 1933 order whereby Roosevelt confiscated physical gold. [...]
https://twitter.com/TuurDemeester/status/1475550819344961540
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December 27, 2021, 08:03:56 PM

Not really, of course, right now, but in 1981, the interest rate was 15.8%, imagine that.

Savings accounts died in 1971. Numerous investment opportunities exist for those who do their own research.

Perhaps you are correct about the beginning of the end of savings accounts in 1971, but the transition from 1971 to our present state of affairs was not totally unhealthy.. I mean we are talking about 50 years of various kinds of adapting to a lot of financially related systems during that time.

Regarding your second sentence, it seems that a lot of folks could get distracted into believing that they need to earn some kind of a yield and getting fucked out of way too many of their bitcoins, so I would be careful in playing around with more than 10% of your bitcoin stash in terms of those kinds of various investment products, and likely figuring out ways to accumulate bitcoin through less tricky and straightforward means is already going to allow folks to potentially get rich as fuck (relatively speaking) without putting too much of their capital at risk.

The pain is real…!!!



You should provide a link or a date or something.. I did a quickie look at the financial times twitter feed and I did not see that tweet at the top of what came up through my search, and I did not really want to spend a lot of time digging through where that tweet might reside.. so I suppose that part of my point (questioning) is about the date of that particular tweet.. and just thinking that sometimes a link can be handy in order that any of us can actually verify a tweet when it comes up... I know that some other members do that too... they just link a tweet, so we can see the source, so it may not be easy to actually find the original tweet.. even if we know who had supposedly tweeted it.
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December 27, 2021, 08:18:03 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (2), shahzadafzal (1)

@JJG

December 22 2021
Why bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme
A Ponzi scheme is a zero-sum enterprise. But bitcoin is a negative-sum phenomenon that you can’t even pursue a claim against, argues Robert McCauley.

https://archive.fo/acY5H
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December 27, 2021, 08:18:30 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (2)


The pain is real…!!!



You should provide a link or a date or something.. I did a quickie look at the financial times twitter feed and I did not see that tweet at the top of what came up through my search, and I did not really want to spend a lot of time digging through where that tweet might reside.. so I suppose that part of my point (questioning) is about the date of that particular tweet.. and just thinking that sometimes a link can be handy in order that any of us can actually verify a tweet when it comes up... I know that some other members do that too... they just link a tweet, so we can see the source, so it may not be easy to actually find the original tweet.. even if we know who had supposedly tweeted it.



https://twitter.com/financialtimes/status/1474032442935816209?s=21

Well the news was published on 22 December 2021 but tweeted on next day on 23 December.

By the way source “Ads Uploader for Twitter” confirms this was a promoted tweet since all their other tweets are via “SocialFlow”.



https://www.ft.com/content/83a14261-598d-4601-87fc-5dde528b33d0
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December 27, 2021, 08:31:44 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (3), JayJuanGee (1)


https://twitter.com/DylanLeClair_/status/1475559113841074186
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December 27, 2021, 08:54:16 PM
Merited by fillippone (3), LFC_Bitcoin (1)

Observing $51,057 & hopeful of a continuation of the bull run. I know I sold 25% (after so many years hodling) but nothing would make me happier than seeing us break out to the upside & see new ath’s in 2022. I feel like we’re at a bit of a crossroads at the moment. As JJG says, this feels like no mans land. We’re either going to pump massively or the bull run is over & we go below $30,000.

I’m well prepared for either direction but much prefer up. I just don’t think we’re going to consolidate in this current price range for long. It’ll be a volatile move in either direction soon.

I don't know we kind of went sideways most of 2021 feb 18 2021 we first topped 51k and dec 27 2021 just about 51k

I feel covid-19 stretched the cycle and made it weird.

 the s2f guy should claim this for twisting his model out of shape.

I doubt that it is very healthy to be considering that macro-events should attempt to be co-integrated into bitcoin's price dynamics - even though I understand and appreciate that a lot of people want to make those kinds of correlations to some of our macro-events.  Sure in the short term, bitcoin is going to have all kinds of small information pieces in which any of us could identify signs of correlation - but if we zoom the fuck out a wee bit, it should become obviously more difficult to make such correlation assertions.

In other words.. bitcoin likely gives few fucks about these various short-term events.. even though on a long term scale, we can likely appreciate that on the margins there has been some possible acceleration of the bitcoin adoption ideas which largely would put pressures on bitcoin's price to the upside rather than keeping it down.

In other words, the so many clown world policies and activities around various reactions to the virus and even the ongoing horey-sheit contradictions that have been becoming more and more apparent, even to a lot of us who had been more than willing to give some benefits of the doubt to the actual reality of the virus, but so much of the impacts of the virus has seemed to have turned into quasi-purposeful manipulations rather than a bunch of incompetents in various governments around the world... Anyhow, my part of my point was supposed to be that even if there might seem to be some downward price pressures on bitcoin (or delays in the cycle as you refer to this, philip), I doubt that the actual bitcoin price dynamics evidence clearly supports that king daddy had been delayed based on some baloney macro matters going on in clown world.

Furthermore, just to attempt to bolster the point that I already made, do you even remember when some of the phoney baloney matters in regards to the virus and policy and financial reactions began?  Bitcoin had broken above $10k and then was correcting around mid-$7ks in early 2020 - including March 2020, when it's prices were cut in half (almost) in a very short period of time.. so yeah, we had a correction down to $3,850.. that lasted nearly two weeks in the $4k to $6k arena before gravitating back up to $10k-ish in August/September, and whether we want to consider our BTC price run starting from that March 2020 related liquidation event or even if we start our BTC price run assessment from $10k-ish (which is what I favor doing), we still got a fucking 7x price appreciation out of the period from September 2020 to present - even if we are seeming to be currently bouncing between a 4x and 6x price appreciation range in recent months...and maybe for some time into the future.. perhaps? perhaps?

I am just having some difficulties appreciating even how a somewhat conservative assessment of a 4x to 6x price appreciation in bitcoin in the past year and a half of so can be even remotely considered as anything close to correlation to clown-world or even to the corona virus matters or however you want to frame this.  Do what you like, but it just seems that the evidence is quite lacking and even faulting in terms of having way more fantasy-landia spin rather than actual bitcoin assessment facts.

and last 23 days of this month  are between 47k and 51k


So sideways looks like the theme.  @ JJG I know BTC does not go sideways.  Until it does Grin

Got a give you at least some credit for your attempt at a fantasy-landia reframing of reality... Maybe an "E" for effort?

Yes.. sometimes we get caught in sideways for a while.. and sometimes we have some difficulties knowing how long such sideways is going to last, but if you are projecting continued sideways (or assigning high probabilities to sideways) based on the fact that sideways has already happened then you may be getting caught in some false senses of lull... 

For sure, if we want to attempt to get specific in our projections, whether we are referring to UP, DOWN or sideways, we should be attempting to also put some kind of timeline on those kinds of projections - in order to have some kind of actual semblance of utility, no?

So for example one thing would be to proclaim sideways through January and another thing would be to proclaim sideways through the whole first quarter of 2022 or even into some specific date that lands in the second quarter of 2022..   

Differing probabilities are going to be assigned based on what timeline you choose.  I don't necessarily want to flesh out this idea too much philip because you are the one that proclaimed sideways without exactly assigning any kind of date nor assigning any kind of date range for your projection, but let's just take a claim that projects continued sideways through January 2022..and you pick the price and you pick the date.. but in this case, I will pick the price and date, since I am the one giving the example.

So just like in my last response to dragonvslinux, I am suggesting that I give few shits unless we start getting close to what I consider to be our current range, which is $42k to $62k.. so in that regard, I might say that sideways within that chosen range has decently high probabilities.    So within the price range of $42k to $62k, maybe I would proclaim down/sideways/up accordingly:    30/32/38... I am kind of spontaneously throwing these numbers out there.. and maybe I might need to think about them a bit more if I want to tweak them or not for that range and that time period... but anyhow you do see that I have higher assignments of probabilities to up and sideways than to down, so I am not completely opposed to the idea of sideways, but for sure any such claim is going to depend upon what range you choose, and if you choose a very narrow range or a very long period of time, then for sure you are more likely going to have to pick a smaller assignment of probabilities for sideways, no? especially with bitcoin, no? 

So a lot of times, when I feel that I have to chime in and say that bitcoin no does not work like that, especially when it comes to sideways, it seems that sometimes people are spouting out way too high of likelihood that they assign to sideways within too narrow of a range and for too long.. even though such sideways might end up happening within the framework that they had chosen, but sure anything can happen, and the mere fact that it had happened would likely not really give much if anything to credence that they actually knew enough about the future to have had made their prediction come true (so it ends up being luck), even when more frequently the thing that happens is that people want to strive for too much of a sorcerer status.. and sure they might end up coming out as correct within their prediction.. but geez.
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December 27, 2021, 09:01:36 PM


Explanation
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December 27, 2021, 09:11:20 PM
Last edit: December 27, 2021, 09:26:20 PM by OutOfMemory
Merited by JayJuanGee (2)

@JJG

December 22 2021
Why bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme
A Ponzi scheme is a zero-sum enterprise. But bitcoin is a negative-sum phenomenon that you can’t even pursue a claim against, argues Robert McCauley.

https://archive.fo/acY5H

An opinion, while a strange one, i'd summarize the article.
What stands out is this:

Quote
And the operators take away a large portion of the money.

Who should resemble the "operators" of the "ponzi scheme", Bitcoin is accused as in the scope of the article?
Early adopters?
Miners?

As the author wrote all the four observations, of which the above is one, ring true for Bitcoin, without further explanation.

Observing $51,057 & hopeful of a continuation of the bull run. I know I sold 25% (after so many years hodling) but nothing would make me happier than seeing us break out to the upside & see new ath’s in 2022. I feel like we’re at a bit of a crossroads at the moment. As JJG says, this feels like no mans land. We’re either going to pump massively or the bull run is over & we go below $30,000.

I’m well prepared for either direction but much prefer up. I just don’t think we’re going to consolidate in this current price range for long. It’ll be a volatile move in either direction soon.

I don't know we kind of went sideways most of 2021 feb 18 2021 we first topped 51k and dec 27 2021 just about 51k

I feel covid-19 stretched the cycle and made it weird.

 the s2f guy should claim this for twisting his model out of shape.

and last 23 days of this month  are between 47k and 51k


So sideways looks like the theme.  @ JJG I know BTC does not go sideways.  Until it does Grin



I rather think that China's exit from the crypto market delayed the cycle(s). Not only by taking huge volume out, which has mostly been picked up bravely by other participants, but also by shifting hashpower to different locations, worldwide.
Covid brought us some very time/event correlated dips, but as the uncertainty vanished, the price went up again, to compensating orders.
It's now a question of other nations to follow suit to China, but the impact(s) should be comparably low, imho.



OOM's back from christmas "holidays" (which were more like hard work), undersexed again, but wife was starting to try some suggested methods to combat her PMDS (or "light" PMDD) recently. It can only get better, imho.
Hope y'all had an awesome christmas time  Grin

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December 27, 2021, 09:24:23 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

An opinion, while a strange one, i'd summarize the article.
What stands out is this:

Quote
And the operators take away a large portion of the money.

Who should resemble the "operators" of the "ponzi scheme", Bitcoin is accused as in the scope of the article?
Early adopters?
Miners?

As the author wrote all the four observations, of which the above is one, ring true for Bitcoin, without further explanation.


Actually they know there’s no way they can prove such claims against bitcoin.

This was just a clickbait and the title itself “Bitcoin is worse than a Ponzi Scheme”. “Title” was the one they were selling not the article not the facts or any thing.

Because they know most people will read the tweet and headline and that’s all.

And that’s what happened if you read top comment on Twitter, it’s clear they didn’t read the article and accepted the title.

I totally agree. Burning millions in fossil fuels daily to generate electricity for what? Ether and a system designed by organized crime to launder billions in any country they want.
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December 27, 2021, 09:26:14 PM
Merited by fillippone (3), BobLawblaw (2), Torque (1)

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December 27, 2021, 09:27:00 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (5), jojo69 (1)

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December 27, 2021, 09:29:38 PM

An opinion, while a strange one, i'd summarize the article.
What stands out is this:

Quote
And the operators take away a large portion of the money.

Who should resemble the "operators" of the "ponzi scheme", Bitcoin is accused as in the scope of the article?
Early adopters?
Miners?

As the author wrote all the four observations, of which the above is one, ring true for Bitcoin, without further explanation.


Actually they know there’s no way they can prove such claims against bitcoin.

This was just a clickbait and the title itself “Bitcoin is worse than a Ponzi Scheme”. “Title” was the one they were selling not the article not the facts or any thing.

Because they know most people will read the tweet and headline and that’s all.

And that’s what happened if you read top comment on Twitter, it’s clear they didn’t read the article and accepted the title.

I totally agree. Burning millions in fossil fuels daily to generate electricity for what? Ether and a system designed by organized crime to launder billions in any country they want.


True, i didn't read the comments.
The article really has that "eat or die" appeal to it, lacking explanations and reasoning.
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December 27, 2021, 09:30:13 PM

@JJG

December 22 2021
Why bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme
A Ponzi scheme is a zero-sum enterprise. But bitcoin is a negative-sum phenomenon that you can’t even pursue a claim against, argues Robert McCauley.

https://archive.fo/acY5H

An opinion, while a strange one, i'd summarize the article.
What stands out is this:

Quote
And the operators take away a large portion of the money.

Who should resemble the "operators" of the "ponzi scheme", Bitcoin is accused as in the scope of the article?
Early adopters?
Miners?

While in the fiat scheme, the "operators" do not take away anything. Amirite?
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December 27, 2021, 09:36:00 PM

@JJG

December 22 2021
Why bitcoin is worse than a Madoff-style Ponzi scheme
A Ponzi scheme is a zero-sum enterprise. But bitcoin is a negative-sum phenomenon that you can’t even pursue a claim against, argues Robert McCauley.

https://archive.fo/acY5H

An opinion, while a strange one, i'd summarize the article.
What stands out is this:

Quote
And the operators take away a large portion of the money.

Who should resemble the "operators" of the "ponzi scheme", Bitcoin is accused as in the scope of the article?
Early adopters?
Miners?

While in the fiat scheme, the "operators" do not take away anything. Amirite?


Yorite.
They only add.
Brrrrrrrr  Wink
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