MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[Nagle]

It is important to remember that the mtgox btc valuation is artificially high because of them being blacklisted by as much of the fiat banking system the USG can influence. So, transferring the btc to another exchange and selling it is only realizing what the btc are really worth.

Enough with the conspiracy theories. Mt. Gox's troubles are due to Mt. Gox.

This has been going on for months. If Mt. Gox really wanted a high-volume banking arrangement, they would have found one by now. But they seem to find having excuses for non-payment more useful. This suggests they don't have the depositors' money.

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[Keyser Soze]

This has been going on for months. If Mt. Gox really wanted a high-volume banking arrangement, they would have found one by now. But they seem to find having excuses for non-payment more useful. This suggests they don't have the depositors' money.

While it is very likely they have less then 100% of client's funds on deposit, we really don't know if they are insolvent. If most banks deem their activity as high risk, they may not be able to set up a relationship that meets their needs in a reasonable time frame.

Either scenario is certainly possible, we cannot (currently) say for certain which one it is.

[Lohoris]

If most banks deem their activity as high risk

Fun thing is, their activity is at high risk mostly because the banks themselves are boycotting it.

[Lohoris]

What surprises me the most is that you are all mostly talking about why they are having trouble processing/covering withdrawals and not why they haven't been straight forward (honest) about the whole situation and told you. Even worse, there have been countless chances to get out at zero loss. We had $130 btc a few weeks ago. Cheaper before that. Several opportunities to buy cheap (SR dump) etc, etc. After all these months why in God's name would you still have money in there. Are you all sadistic?

much +1, I've been wondering this too, still baffled.

[solex]

What surprises me the most is that you are all mostly talking about why they are having trouble processing/covering withdrawals and not why they haven't been straight forward (honest) about the whole situation and told you.

They are straight forward about not being straight forward.
2.5 months have passed and the situation seems unchanged.

CONFIRMATION TIME!

I was on at #mtgox on irc.freenode.org when identified user MagicalTux, CEO of MtGox, gave the statements in sturles post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179586.msg2924021#msg2924021 and I can confirm that the quotes are accurate and exactly what was said.

It would be great if one or two other people who also have the conversation in their scrollback buffer can also confirm this.

13:48 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we already applied to that one
13:51 <@MagicalTux> samson_, things are not easy, but it's far from what you could qualify as "embargo"
13:54 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we've been reducing SEPA delay day by day
13:54 <@MagicalTux> things are much better than one month ago
13:54 <@MagicalTux> nope
13:59 <@MagicalTux> sturles, "blocked" is not the correct word
14:00 <@MagicalTux> SleepersTide, right now all SWIFT transfers are processed up to the limits of our current bank (up to 10 transfers per day - we should be able to increase that as soon as we have more banking partners ready - it's taking longer than expected because of the time required by the people at the bank to understand our business)
14:01 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we are not allowed to talk about the exact problem (doing so would only make things worse)
14:12 <@MagicalTux> sturles, most companies in Japan will do one, maybe two SWIFT transfers a month to providers overseas (actually most will do zero)
14:16 <@MagicalTux> Delerium, literal
14:17 <@MagicalTux> when we were in the second largest bank in Japan, we represented more than half of all the volume of SWIFT processed by that bank (almost overloading their systems a couple of times)
14:18 <@MagicalTux> rfish, rather than spending time on this, fixing it is likely going to bring more on the long term
14:19 <@MagicalTux> those wires are processed in received order, nothing else
14:25 <@MagicalTux> publishing that would be against our ToS
14:26 <@MagicalTux> (specifically privacy policies)

^^ see sturles post for full conversation, just confirming MagicalTux's statements.

..if you're wondering why we should confirm this is true: various "news outlets" are now watching and typing up stories

[Lohoris]

They are straight forward about not being straight forward.
2.5 months have passed and the situation seems unchanged.

14:01 <@MagicalTux> sturles, we are not allowed to talk about the exact problem (doing so would only make things worse)

Not being allowed to state the exact problem might be fine, but why then they are lying elsewhere, such as with plain wrong wait times, and ridiculous excuses ("network congestion")?

[papamoi]

so what should we understand from this??

they are not cheaters but just fucked up by the system?

[tvbcof]

so what should we understand from this??

they are not cheaters but just fucked up by the system?

As annoyed as I am with Mt. Gox, that still strikes me as the strongest hypothesis.  The reason is still that it would make little sense for Mt. Gox to fuck up their reputation and marketshare when they had a damn good and very profitable thing going.

[eZc]

So what is now the expected withdrawal time for:

SEPA >1000EUR
SEPA <1000EUR
Int Wire >1000USD
Int Wire <1000USD
Int Wire JPY

[bnjmnkent]

so what should we understand from this??

they are not cheaters but just fucked up by the system?

As annoyed as I am with Mt. Gox, that still strikes me as the strongest hypothesis.  The reason is still that it would make little sense for Mt. Gox to fuck up their reputation and marketshare when they had a damn good and very profitable thing going.

Having found the strongest hypothesis, what are the actions to derive (otherwise the search process is just
a big waste of time)?

[sturle]

So what is now the expected withdrawal time for:

SEPA >1000EUR
SEPA <1000EUR

Six weeks.  You need to go below 400 EUR to get it significantly faster.

Int Wire >1000USD
Int Wire <1000USD

USD have to pass through US banks, which aren't very cooperative.  I think there are still withdrawals left dating back to mid June.

Int Wire JPY

For other currencies in general the queue is shorter than the USD queue, but I don't know exactly how long.

[Nagle]

USD have to pass through US banks, which aren't very cooperative.  I think there are still withdrawals left dating back to mid June.

Enough with the bullshit. Nobody has reported that a US bank has refused an incoming wire transfer from Mt. Gox. If there's a problem on the bank side (which is questionable; Mt. Gox has never offered any concrete proof of this) it's at the sending end in Japan.

Mt. Gox doesn't seem to be having any trouble getting wire transfers from the US. If some limits were being applied at the US end, there would be trouble sending to Mt. Gox from the US.

[tvbcof]

so what should we understand from this??

they are not cheaters but just fucked up by the system?

As annoyed as I am with Mt. Gox, that still strikes me as the strongest hypothesis.  The reason is still that it would make little sense for Mt. Gox to fuck up their reputation and marketshare when they had a damn good and very profitable thing going.

Having found the strongest hypothesis, what are the actions to derive (otherwise the search process is just
a big waste of time)?

If this hypothesis is the correct one, then inaction is the most appropriate course of action for me.  This was my best hypothesis before I risked the money I did with them, and it factored into a decision about how much money to put at risk here.  I would not have done so if I needed to see results within a certain time-frame.

To reiterate my posture:

 - having loss of access to a non-trivial sum of $$$ gives me a legitimate rational to attack the problems at their root (which I feel is probably the established financial corporations and the regulators they sponsor.)

 - the $5M (or $10M) of formerly Mt. Gox controlled value is now sitting in a pool that Mt. Gox cannot touch should they implode or decide to run.  I have a better chance of recouping my losses out of this pool since it is held by the the U.S. govt and I am a U.S. citizen.

 - It is perfectly possible that Mt. Gox figures out a way to overcome their issues eventually and the wire lands in my bank account someday with little fan-fare.  Mt. Gox's best bet is to agree to be a pliant honey-pot in exchange for return of their funds, and I think there is a fair chance that they will be offered that option and accept it.

The greatest good would be possible by perusing the first bullet point, but absent some cooperation from Mt. Gox, it is not very practical to do so.

[wuala]

Anyone with a new witdraw processed??

Wich date??

 

[bernard75]

They stopped sending money, it was just annoying and a major inconvenience anyway.
They will now dedicate all of their time on receiving cash, although that doesnt happen very often.

[EuroTrash]

so what should we understand from this??

they are not cheaters but just fucked up by the system?

As annoyed as I am with Mt. Gox, that still strikes me as the strongest hypothesis.  The reason is still that it would make little sense for Mt. Gox to fuck up their reputation and marketshare when they had a damn good and very profitable thing going.

Someone important told me that the lawyers he chose are not the best ones in the field, yet he refused any external offer for help.

[tvbcof]

so what should we understand from this??

they are not cheaters but just fucked up by the system?

As annoyed as I am with Mt. Gox, that still strikes me as the strongest hypothesis.  The reason is still that it would make little sense for Mt. Gox to fuck up their reputation and marketshare when they had a damn good and very profitable thing going.

Someone important told me that the lawyers he chose are not the best ones in the field, yet he refused any external offer for help.

It occurred to me the other day when I was talking to someone about it that it is quite possible that Karpeles is simply not a person with a lot of potential for handling various kinds of loads.  He might simply be swamped and confused and floundering about quite a bit.  That would explain some of the observations that various people have made.

My basic assumption was that Mark was a clever and capable guy since he landed at the top of a fairly powerful organization.  But when one thinks about it, when he obtained Mt. Gox from the original creator it was nothing near what it later became.  People from a variety of backgrounds and with a variety of capabilities could have decided that a fantasy card trading outfit who adapted their software to deal with a new and tiny crypto-currency was worth obtaining.  Especially if they had some spare cash kicking around or for some reason to need to move some which is why a lot of the early adopters probably got into things.

[ardana123]

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1pnc2a/mt_gox_price_spread_discussion/

report from a USD withdrawal in this thread?

[NewLiberty]

so what should we understand from this??

they are not cheaters but just fucked up by the system?

As annoyed as I am with Mt. Gox, that still strikes me as the strongest hypothesis.  The reason is still that it would make little sense for Mt. Gox to fuck up their reputation and marketshare when they had a damn good and very profitable thing going.

Having found the strongest hypothesis, what are the actions to derive (otherwise the search process is just
a big waste of time)?

If this hypothesis is the correct one, then inaction is the most appropriate course of action for me.  This was my best hypothesis before I risked the money I did with them, and it factored into a decision about how much money to put at risk here.  I would not have done so if I needed to see results within a certain time-frame.

To reiterate my posture:

 - having loss of access to a non-trivial sum of $$$ gives me a legitimate rational to attack the problems at their root (which I feel is probably the established financial corporations and the regulators they sponsor.)

 - the $5M (or $10M) of formerly Mt. Gox controlled value is now sitting in a pool that Mt. Gox cannot touch should they implode or decide to run.  I have a better chance of recouping my losses out of this pool since it is held by the the U.S. govt and I am a U.S. citizen.

 - It is perfectly possible that Mt. Gox figures out a way to overcome their issues eventually and the wire lands in my bank account someday with little fan-fare.  Mt. Gox's best bet is to agree to be a pliant honey-pot in exchange for return of their funds, and I think there is a fair chance that they will be offered that option and accept it.

The greatest good would be possible by perusing the first bullet point, but absent some cooperation from Mt. Gox, it is not very practical to do so.

Western Union should buy MtGox.
It would save both companies.
Both will die if they do nothing.

[tvbcof]

Western Union should buy MtGox.
It would save both companies.
Both will die if they do nothing.

Damn good idea actually.  I gotta wonder if it is not to late for one or both of them already though.