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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2032810 times)
Tibi
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January 28, 2016, 07:34:03 AM
 #14241

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing
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January 28, 2016, 02:37:47 PM
 #14242

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it
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January 28, 2016, 04:13:50 PM
 #14243

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it

P2pool it's not die, p2pool it's good but the miners must be informed

P2Pool.cloud - Public Node P2Pool EU/AMERICA Bitcoin 0% fee ITA - ENG

my BTC: 1KiMpRAWscBvhRgLs8jDnqrZEKJzt3Ypfi
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January 28, 2016, 06:00:52 PM
 #14244

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it

P2pool it's not die, p2pool it's good but the miners must be informed

punk is not death!
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January 28, 2016, 06:19:14 PM
 #14245

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it

P2pool it's not die, p2pool it's good but the miners must be informed

why is p2pool a bad thing ?
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January 28, 2016, 06:24:58 PM
 #14246

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it

P2pool it's not die, p2pool it's good but the miners must be informed

why is p2pool a bad thing ?

it is not question for its users but for them who are NOT using it
p3yot33at3r
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January 28, 2016, 08:45:06 PM
 #14247

a shame so little hash power on p2pool

Indeed - & my server just suffered a catastrophic failure & went down. I'm not sure if it's the mobo or SSD yet, looks like my Sunday will be spent knee-deep in parts while I search for the problem.

Great!  Cheesy

Been back online after replacing a fried mobo for a couple of days now  Smiley

I decided to pull the latest Bitcoin version from git instead of using the v11.2 - what a difference! My Bitcoind GetBlockTemplate Latency has dropped dramatically from ~1-2.5 secs back down to a steady 0.25 secs using the same conf file as v11.2. Whatever they fixed - it works a treat  Smiley

Highly recommend the latest version from git to eveyone.

Code:
{
  "version": 129900,
  "protocolversion": 70012,
  "blocks": 395494,
  "timeoffset": 2,
  "connections": 14,
  "proxy": "",
  "difficulty": 120033340651.237,
  "testnet": false,
  "paytxfee": 0.00000000,
  "relayfee": 0.00001000,
  "errors": "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications, blah, blah......"
}
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January 28, 2016, 10:03:08 PM
 #14248

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing
P2pool is not only a good thing, it's a great thing, it's really what Bitcoin is all about.  I think the main reason more people don't use it is because it's not as user friendly as simply pointing your miners to kano.is, for example.  There are lots of extra steps to take, and granted many bitcoiners know more about the ins and outs of computing than the general public, a lot of what p2pool needs to get up and running is beyond the grasp of even your average bitcoiner.
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January 29, 2016, 09:12:26 AM
 #14249

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing
P2pool is not only a good thing, it's a great thing, it's really what Bitcoin is all about.  I think the main reason more people don't use it is because it's not as user friendly as simply pointing your miners to kano.is, for example.  There are lots of extra steps to take, and granted many bitcoiners know more about the ins and outs of computing than the general public, a lot of what p2pool needs to get up and running is beyond the grasp of even your average bitcoiner.

exactly
sad thing is that the future of p2pool depends on other pool operators if they decide to keep it alive or not because fellow miner does not have such power, what an irony?
in origional bitcoin was solo mining the only way to mine and also it was designed to be fair, but with growing difficulty solo mining is no more way to mine and absolutely not fair way, fair way, decentralised mining done thru p2pool was destroyed by its own sofisticated design and greed of node operators (a little less fellow miners than fellow miners)
if p2pool mining mechanism was implemented in core it would still allow fellow miner to grab some coins but the condition to own server and linux ability to tune pypy and compile git bitcoind and and and and ... are not the way interesting enough counter easy pooled mining
idonothave
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January 29, 2016, 09:12:58 AM
 #14250

a shame so little hash power on p2pool

Indeed - & my server just suffered a catastrophic failure & went down. I'm not sure if it's the mobo or SSD yet, looks like my Sunday will be spent knee-deep in parts while I search for the problem.

Great!  Cheesy

Been back online after replacing a fried mobo for a couple of days now  Smiley

I decided to pull the latest Bitcoin version from git instead of using the v11.2 - what a difference! My Bitcoind GetBlockTemplate Latency has dropped dramatically from ~1-2.5 secs back down to a steady 0.25 secs using the same conf file as v11.2. Whatever they fixed - it works a treat  Smiley

Highly recommend the latest version from git to eveyone.

Code:
{
  "version": 129900,
  "protocolversion": 70012,
  "blocks": 395494,
  "timeoffset": 2,
  "connections": 14,
  "proxy": "",
  "difficulty": 120033340651.237,
  "testnet": false,
  "paytxfee": 0.00000000,
  "relayfee": 0.00001000,
  "errors": "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications, blah, blah......"
}

agree
the same here
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January 29, 2016, 03:57:31 PM
 #14251

Code:
"errors": "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications, blah, blah......"

The end of that error message is too funny!

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing
P2pool is not only a good thing, it's a great thing, it's really what Bitcoin is all about.  I think the main reason more people don't use it is because it's not as user friendly as simply pointing your miners to kano.is, for example.  There are lots of extra steps to take, and granted many bitcoiners know more about the ins and outs of computing than the general public, a lot of what p2pool needs to get up and running is beyond the grasp of even your average bitcoiner.

exactly
sad thing is that the future of p2pool depends on other pool operators if they decide to keep it alive or not because fellow miner does not have such power, what an irony?
in origional bitcoin was solo mining the only way to mine and also it was designed to be fair, but with growing difficulty solo mining is no more way to mine and absolutely not fair way, fair way, decentralised mining done thru p2pool was destroyed by its own sofisticated design and greed of node operators (a little less fellow miners than fellow miners)
if p2pool mining mechanism was implemented in core it would still allow fellow miner to grab some coins but the condition to own server and linux ability to tune pypy and compile git bitcoind and and and and ... are not the way interesting enough counter easy pooled mining
You guys are rehashing the same argument that's been going on here for years.  P2Pool is, unfortunately, its own worst enemy.  Its fatal flaw is that the more people that join, the more variance they suffer.  It is precisely the opposite of what happens on centralized pools.

Some people have take steps to mitigate that - see OgNasty's and Nonnakip's NastyPoP method.  Unfortunately no good, true solution to the problem has been found.

Finally, let's face it: people are not really that interested in running a pool (or node in this case).  Maybe they don't have a computer that is on 24 hours a day.  Maybe they have limited bandwidth.  Maybe they just don't have the technical knowledge and have no desire to learn it.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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January 29, 2016, 05:44:15 PM
 #14252


Finally, let's face it: people are not really that interested in running a pool (or node in this case).  Maybe they don't have a computer that is on 24 hours a day.  Maybe they have limited bandwidth.  Maybe they just don't have the technical knowledge and have no desire to learn it.

I have 7 nodes...you are welcome  Cheesy Wink

P2Pool.cloud - Public Node P2Pool EU/AMERICA Bitcoin 0% fee ITA - ENG

my BTC: 1KiMpRAWscBvhRgLs8jDnqrZEKJzt3Ypfi
jonnybravo0311
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January 29, 2016, 06:45:13 PM
 #14253

The number of nodes isn't a problem, and really never has been.  Plenty of people put up and run publicly accessible p2pool nodes.  Heck, I was one of them for 2 years.

Ideally, if you're interested in p2pool, you'd run your own node.  That's the ultimate design of it - to be completely decentralized.  It's a fantastic concept.  As I pointed out, not everybody does so.  So, if there are plenty of nodes from which people can choose, why aren't more people here?  Well, that leads back to the part of my post you didn't quote.

The variance here is twofold.  First, is getting shares onto the chain.  Share difficulty is currently 1360000.  So what does that mean for expectations?
  • Antminer S1 would expect to land a share every 9 hours or so
  • Antminer S3 would expect to land a share every 3.5 hours or so
  • Antminer S5 would expect to land a share every 1.4 hours or so
  • Antminer S7 would expect to land a share every half an hour or so

So, the price of entry is pretty steep.  And, it only gets worse as more hashing power is added to the pool because the share difficulty rises in conjunction with the added hash.  That's the ultimate problem to be solved: how do you keep miners from suffering more and more variance even as the pool gains hash and solves more blocks?

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
Tibi
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January 29, 2016, 08:29:42 PM
 #14254

all in all p2pool is a not so good thing for most of the miners . :/ to bad.
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January 29, 2016, 09:12:53 PM
 #14255

The number of nodes isn't a problem, and really never has been.  Plenty of people put up and run publicly accessible p2pool nodes.  Heck, I was one of them for 2 years.

Ideally, if you're interested in p2pool, you'd run your own node.  That's the ultimate design of it - to be completely decentralized.  It's a fantastic concept.  As I pointed out, not everybody does so.  So, if there are plenty of nodes from which people can choose, why aren't more people here?  Well, that leads back to the part of my post you didn't quote.

The variance here is twofold.  First, is getting shares onto the chain.  Share difficulty is currently 1360000.  So what does that mean for expectations?
  • Antminer S1 would expect to land a share every 9 hours or so
  • Antminer S3 would expect to land a share every 3.5 hours or so
  • Antminer S5 would expect to land a share every 1.4 hours or so
  • Antminer S7 would expect to land a share every half an hour or so

So, the price of entry is pretty steep.  And, it only gets worse as more hashing power is added to the pool because the share difficulty rises in conjunction with the added hash.  That's the ultimate problem to be solved: how do you keep miners from suffering more and more variance even as the pool gains hash and solves more blocks?

Any way to do fractional shares, perhaps?

1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
windpath
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January 29, 2016, 09:18:49 PM
 #14256


The solution may very well lie with technologies that are imminently on the horizon.

Both Rootstock and Lightning could offer a means of decentralized trust-less block reward accumulation for small miners.

Tibi
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January 29, 2016, 10:33:50 PM
 #14257

what do we define as per of today  the term small miner, are we talking about running outdated asic miners or a persone whit one S7 ?
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January 29, 2016, 10:42:28 PM
 #14258

The number of nodes isn't a problem, and really never has been.  Plenty of people put up and run publicly accessible p2pool nodes.  Heck, I was one of them for 2 years.

Ideally, if you're interested in p2pool, you'd run your own node.  That's the ultimate design of it - to be completely decentralized.  It's a fantastic concept.  As I pointed out, not everybody does so.  So, if there are plenty of nodes from which people can choose, why aren't more people here?  Well, that leads back to the part of my post you didn't quote.

The variance here is twofold.  First, is getting shares onto the chain.  Share difficulty is currently 1360000.  So what does that mean for expectations?
  • Antminer S1 would expect to land a share every 9 hours or so
  • Antminer S3 would expect to land a share every 3.5 hours or so
  • Antminer S5 would expect to land a share every 1.4 hours or so
  • Antminer S7 would expect to land a share every half an hour or so

So, the price of entry is pretty steep.  And, it only gets worse as more hashing power is added to the pool because the share difficulty rises in conjunction with the added hash.  That's the ultimate problem to be solved: how do you keep miners from suffering more and more variance even as the pool gains hash and solves more blocks?

I keep coming back to the idea of increasing the maximum p2pool share difficulty from the current 30 time the minimum. I believe this would help decrease the minimum p2pool share difficulty and provide more shares for smaller miner in turn lowering variance. Currently the maximum share diff is 40800000 based on the min being 1360000. I believe p2pool automatically increases the share difficulty on each node based on how much hash rate it has in comparison to the rest of the pool.

[note to self: post code where this is done]

For an S7 if the miner set's his share diff to be the current max he would get a share every ~15 hours (based on the example in the quote). I don't have an S7 to see if it is automatically increasing it's difficulty and by how much. If nodes are not increasing difficulty then we need to figure out why...but I think they are.

Found an old post from roy7 that goes into more detail:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg5950880;topicseen#msg5950880

[note to self: post code where the 30 times the minimum share difficulty is done]

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January 29, 2016, 10:49:38 PM
 #14259

The number of nodes isn't a problem, and really never has been.  Plenty of people put up and run publicly accessible p2pool nodes.  Heck, I was one of them for 2 years.

Ideally, if you're interested in p2pool, you'd run your own node.  That's the ultimate design of it - to be completely decentralized.  It's a fantastic concept.  As I pointed out, not everybody does so.  So, if there are plenty of nodes from which people can choose, why aren't more people here?  Well, that leads back to the part of my post you didn't quote.

The variance here is twofold.  First, is getting shares onto the chain.  Share difficulty is currently 1360000.  So what does that mean for expectations?
  • Antminer S1 would expect to land a share every 9 hours or so
  • Antminer S3 would expect to land a share every 3.5 hours or so
  • Antminer S5 would expect to land a share every 1.4 hours or so
  • Antminer S7 would expect to land a share every half an hour or so

So, the price of entry is pretty steep.  And, it only gets worse as more hashing power is added to the pool because the share difficulty rises in conjunction with the added hash.  That's the ultimate problem to be solved: how do you keep miners from suffering more and more variance even as the pool gains hash and solves more blocks?

I keep coming back to the idea of increasing the maximum p2pool share difficulty from the current 30 time the minimum. I believe this would help decrease the minimum p2pool share difficulty and provide more shares for smaller miner in turn lowering variance. Currently the maximum share diff is 40800000 based on the min being 1360000. I believe p2pool automatically increases the share difficulty on each node based on how much hash rate it has in comparison to the rest of the pool.

[note to self: post code where this is done]

For an S7 if the miner set's his share diff to be the current max he would get a share every ~15 hours (based on the example in the quote). I don't have an S7 to see if it is automatically increasing it's difficulty and by how much. If nodes are not increasing difficulty then we need to figure out why...but I think they are.

Found an old post from roy7 that goes into more detail:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg5950880;topicseen#msg5950880

[note to self: post code where the 30 times the minimum share difficulty is done]


For example...this miner with 22 TH/s is currently using the minimum share diff of 1430391. ETA to share is about 5 minutes. They should be running with the max share diff not min. By running with the min they are taking away shares that smaller miners could use to get in the share chain and also increasing the min share diff for everyone. If they set themselves to use the current max share diff it would give them a share every 2.5 hours instead of 5 minutes which is more than reasonable. They will make the same amount and help out smaller miners and the entire pool as a whole... including themselves.

http://minefast.coincadence.com/miner.php?id=1Nhx4RU5bbUiHEXJLFEdQaewwHYnpSNAvD

This example shows that p2pool may not be automatically increasing the share diff at the node level...or, more likely, the miner explicitly set his diff to be low. It's been a while since I looked at the code but I think it was last set to if a node has more then 5% of the hashrate increase. The node where this miner is at is about 45 TH out of 600 TH so a little over 5%.

Edit: it's actually 1.3% now so that node should definitely be increasing their miners share diff. The miner most likely is overriding it though.
Code:
bitcoin_data.average_attempts_to_target(local_hash_rate * self.node.net.SHARE_PERIOD / 0.0167)) # limit to 1.67% of pool shares by modulating share difficulty
https://github.com/p2pool/p2pool/blob/482f410b0f48696901ae2a732450d02a27c0edc6/p2pool/work.py#L290

Was lowered from 5% on 11-04-2013 in this commit: https://github.com/p2pool/p2pool/commit/69d7300919e0f9b23ec81c1d01c0bf12cdb1ebc5

Maybe time to lower even more?

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January 29, 2016, 11:22:54 PM
 #14260

So ... if p2pool was 10% of the network, the pool would be ... 86PH ... yeah consider that in your calculations ...

... and reducing share time means more lost shares.

Of course there's the other problem that happened recently when someone easily 51% p2pool ... and no one seemed to care or even notice Tongue

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
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