[1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool

[p3yot33at3r]

I was looking for that post but couldn't remember where I had read it - thanks -ck! 

[idonothave]

if there was bitcoin fork with p2pool mining system implemented, would any little miner think about to mine with pools?

[Tibi]

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

[idonothave]

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it

[wariner]

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it

P2pool it's not die, p2pool it's good but the miners must be informed

[idonothave]

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it

P2pool it's not die, p2pool it's good but the miners must be informed

punk is not death!

[Tibi]

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it

P2pool it's not die, p2pool it's good but the miners must be informed

why is p2pool a bad thing ?

[idonothave]

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

if p2pool was good thing, miners would not let it die but used it

P2pool it's not die, p2pool it's good but the miners must be informed

why is p2pool a bad thing ?

it is not question for its users but for them who are NOT using it

[p3yot33at3r]

a shame so little hash power on p2pool

Indeed - & my server just suffered a catastrophic failure & went down. I'm not sure if it's the mobo or SSD yet, looks like my Sunday will be spent knee-deep in parts while I search for the problem.

Great! 

Been back online after replacing a fried mobo for a couple of days now 

I decided to pull the latest Bitcoin version from git instead of using the v11.2 - what a difference! My Bitcoind GetBlockTemplate Latency has dropped dramatically from ~1-2.5 secs back down to a steady 0.25 secs using the same conf file as v11.2. Whatever they fixed - it works a treat 

Highly recommend the latest version from git to eveyone.

Code:

{
  "version": 129900,
  "protocolversion": 70012,
  "blocks": 395494,
  "timeoffset": 2,
  "connections": 14,
  "proxy": "",
  "difficulty": 120033340651.237,
  "testnet": false,
  "paytxfee": 0.00000000,
  "relayfee": 0.00001000,
  "errors": "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications, blah, blah......"
}

[Mikestang]

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

P2pool is not only a good thing, it's a great thing, it's really what Bitcoin is all about.  I think the main reason more people don't use it is because it's not as user friendly as simply pointing your miners to kano.is, for example.  There are lots of extra steps to take, and granted many bitcoiners know more about the ins and outs of computing than the general public, a lot of what p2pool needs to get up and running is beyond the grasp of even your average bitcoiner.

[idonothave]

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

P2pool is not only a good thing, it's a great thing, it's really what Bitcoin is all about.  I think the main reason more people don't use it is because it's not as user friendly as simply pointing your miners to kano.is, for example.  There are lots of extra steps to take, and granted many bitcoiners know more about the ins and outs of computing than the general public, a lot of what p2pool needs to get up and running is beyond the grasp of even your average bitcoiner.

exactly
sad thing is that the future of p2pool depends on other pool operators if they decide to keep it alive or not because fellow miner does not have such power, what an irony?
in origional bitcoin was solo mining the only way to mine and also it was designed to be fair, but with growing difficulty solo mining is no more way to mine and absolutely not fair way, fair way, decentralised mining done thru p2pool was destroyed by its own sofisticated design and greed of node operators (a little less fellow miners than fellow miners)
if p2pool mining mechanism was implemented in core it would still allow fellow miner to grab some coins but the condition to own server and linux ability to tune pypy and compile git bitcoind and and and and ... are not the way interesting enough counter easy pooled mining

[idonothave]

a shame so little hash power on p2pool

Indeed - & my server just suffered a catastrophic failure & went down. I'm not sure if it's the mobo or SSD yet, looks like my Sunday will be spent knee-deep in parts while I search for the problem.

Great! 

Been back online after replacing a fried mobo for a couple of days now 

I decided to pull the latest Bitcoin version from git instead of using the v11.2 - what a difference! My Bitcoind GetBlockTemplate Latency has dropped dramatically from ~1-2.5 secs back down to a steady 0.25 secs using the same conf file as v11.2. Whatever they fixed - it works a treat 

Highly recommend the latest version from git to eveyone.

Code:

{
  "version": 129900,
  "protocolversion": 70012,
  "blocks": 395494,
  "timeoffset": 2,
  "connections": 14,
  "proxy": "",
  "difficulty": 120033340651.237,
  "testnet": false,
  "paytxfee": 0.00000000,
  "relayfee": 0.00001000,
  "errors": "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications, blah, blah......"
}

agree
the same here

[jonnybravo0311]

Code:

"errors": "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications, blah, blah......"

The end of that error message is too funny!

why do we have so low hashrate on p2pool , dont get it why most dont want to mine whit it ? . p2pool is a good thing

P2pool is not only a good thing, it's a great thing, it's really what Bitcoin is all about.  I think the main reason more people don't use it is because it's not as user friendly as simply pointing your miners to kano.is, for example.  There are lots of extra steps to take, and granted many bitcoiners know more about the ins and outs of computing than the general public, a lot of what p2pool needs to get up and running is beyond the grasp of even your average bitcoiner.

exactly
sad thing is that the future of p2pool depends on other pool operators if they decide to keep it alive or not because fellow miner does not have such power, what an irony?
in origional bitcoin was solo mining the only way to mine and also it was designed to be fair, but with growing difficulty solo mining is no more way to mine and absolutely not fair way, fair way, decentralised mining done thru p2pool was destroyed by its own sofisticated design and greed of node operators (a little less fellow miners than fellow miners)
if p2pool mining mechanism was implemented in core it would still allow fellow miner to grab some coins but the condition to own server and linux ability to tune pypy and compile git bitcoind and and and and ... are not the way interesting enough counter easy pooled mining

You guys are rehashing the same argument that's been going on here for years.  P2Pool is, unfortunately, its own worst enemy.  Its fatal flaw is that the more people that join, the more variance they suffer.  It is precisely the opposite of what happens on centralized pools.

Some people have take steps to mitigate that - see OgNasty's and Nonnakip's NastyPoP method.  Unfortunately no good, true solution to the problem has been found.

Finally, let's face it: people are not really that interested in running a pool (or node in this case).  Maybe they don't have a computer that is on 24 hours a day.  Maybe they have limited bandwidth.  Maybe they just don't have the technical knowledge and have no desire to learn it.

[wariner]

Finally, let's face it: people are not really that interested in running a pool (or node in this case).  Maybe they don't have a computer that is on 24 hours a day.  Maybe they have limited bandwidth.  Maybe they just don't have the technical knowledge and have no desire to learn it.

I have 7 nodes...you are welcome 

[jonnybravo0311]

The number of nodes isn't a problem, and really never has been.  Plenty of people put up and run publicly accessible p2pool nodes.  Heck, I was one of them for 2 years.

Ideally, if you're interested in p2pool, you'd run your own node.  That's the ultimate design of it - to be completely decentralized.  It's a fantastic concept.  As I pointed out, not everybody does so.  So, if there are plenty of nodes from which people can choose, why aren't more people here?  Well, that leads back to the part of my post you didn't quote.

The variance here is twofold.  First, is getting shares onto the chain.  Share difficulty is currently 1360000.  So what does that mean for expectations?

• Antminer S1 would expect to land a share every 9 hours or so
• Antminer S3 would expect to land a share every 3.5 hours or so
• Antminer S5 would expect to land a share every 1.4 hours or so
• Antminer S7 would expect to land a share every half an hour or so

So, the price of entry is pretty steep.  And, it only gets worse as more hashing power is added to the pool because the share difficulty rises in conjunction with the added hash.  That's the ultimate problem to be solved: how do you keep miners from suffering more and more variance even as the pool gains hash and solves more blocks?

[Tibi]

all in all p2pool is a not so good thing for most of the miners . :/ to bad.

[Richy_T]

The number of nodes isn't a problem, and really never has been.  Plenty of people put up and run publicly accessible p2pool nodes.  Heck, I was one of them for 2 years.

Ideally, if you're interested in p2pool, you'd run your own node.  That's the ultimate design of it - to be completely decentralized.  It's a fantastic concept.  As I pointed out, not everybody does so.  So, if there are plenty of nodes from which people can choose, why aren't more people here?  Well, that leads back to the part of my post you didn't quote.

The variance here is twofold.  First, is getting shares onto the chain.  Share difficulty is currently 1360000.  So what does that mean for expectations?

• Antminer S1 would expect to land a share every 9 hours or so
• Antminer S3 would expect to land a share every 3.5 hours or so
• Antminer S5 would expect to land a share every 1.4 hours or so
• Antminer S7 would expect to land a share every half an hour or so

So, the price of entry is pretty steep.  And, it only gets worse as more hashing power is added to the pool because the share difficulty rises in conjunction with the added hash.  That's the ultimate problem to be solved: how do you keep miners from suffering more and more variance even as the pool gains hash and solves more blocks?

Any way to do fractional shares, perhaps?

[windpath]

The solution may very well lie with technologies that are imminently on the horizon.

Both Rootstock and Lightning could offer a means of decentralized trust-less block reward accumulation for small miners.

[Tibi]

what do we define as per of today  the term small miner, are we talking about running outdated asic miners or a persone whit one S7 ?

[CartmanSPC]

The number of nodes isn't a problem, and really never has been.  Plenty of people put up and run publicly accessible p2pool nodes.  Heck, I was one of them for 2 years.

Ideally, if you're interested in p2pool, you'd run your own node.  That's the ultimate design of it - to be completely decentralized.  It's a fantastic concept.  As I pointed out, not everybody does so.  So, if there are plenty of nodes from which people can choose, why aren't more people here?  Well, that leads back to the part of my post you didn't quote.

The variance here is twofold.  First, is getting shares onto the chain.  Share difficulty is currently 1360000.  So what does that mean for expectations?

• Antminer S1 would expect to land a share every 9 hours or so
• Antminer S3 would expect to land a share every 3.5 hours or so
• Antminer S5 would expect to land a share every 1.4 hours or so
• Antminer S7 would expect to land a share every half an hour or so

So, the price of entry is pretty steep.  And, it only gets worse as more hashing power is added to the pool because the share difficulty rises in conjunction with the added hash.  That's the ultimate problem to be solved: how do you keep miners from suffering more and more variance even as the pool gains hash and solves more blocks?

I keep coming back to the idea of increasing the maximum p2pool share difficulty from the current 30 time the minimum. I believe this would help decrease the minimum p2pool share difficulty and provide more shares for smaller miner in turn lowering variance. Currently the maximum share diff is 40800000 based on the min being 1360000. I believe p2pool automatically increases the share difficulty on each node based on how much hash rate it has in comparison to the rest of the pool.

[note to self: post code where this is done]

For an S7 if the miner set's his share diff to be the current max he would get a share every ~15 hours (based on the example in the quote). I don't have an S7 to see if it is automatically increasing it's difficulty and by how much. If nodes are not increasing difficulty then we need to figure out why...but I think they are.

Found an old post from roy7 that goes into more detail:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg5950880;topicseen#msg5950880

[note to self: post code where the 30 times the minimum share difficulty is done]