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Author Topic: Klondike - 16 chip ASIC Open Source Board - Preliminary  (Read 434327 times)
BkkCoins
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June 19, 2013, 11:44:16 PM
 #1581

BKK
I have a question
On both K1 and K16 board BOM the PIK controler is the same
but the configurations on the PCB for the PIC on K1 and K16 are different.
Any special purpose on that?
The only difference is that on the K1 there is no fan controller (2 pins) and external temp sensor (1 pin). I could  have left the thermistor in but I thought the internal PIC sensor would be enough for a critical cutoff. If that's not adequate after testing I may add it back in again. Also, of course, the K16 has 2 banks and so two sets of data signals out but the k1 only 1 chip (1 bank).

Note that as reported above there is an error in the power supply on the K1 board that requires a small board mod before you add parts, or before power anyway. I can detail it here or by PM.

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June 20, 2013, 12:20:30 AM
 #1582

Something I noticed on another thread -

Just got this emailed to me from Avalon.
http://imgur.com/a/fqpME

From those pictures, any drop in network hash rate is only temporary.

Notice the last image - has a decent picture of avalon's 10-chip board ... Smiley
(that's in case if there is anything to be learned from it)

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June 20, 2013, 01:44:20 AM
 #1583

Can one who is producing boards tell me estimated import duties for Germany?
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June 20, 2013, 02:20:50 AM
 #1584

Can one who is producing boards tell me estimated import duties for Germany?

In case you order your board outside the EU... TARIC should be 85423110 = 0% taxes. Anyway, you'll pay the 19% EUSt. (VAT). Keep in mind there might be some additional hurdles like a (missing) CE sign, WEEE registration etc. - depending on the amount of ordered boards. Would highly recommend to buy from one of the EU based assemblers. Smiley

"And the machine keeps pushing time through the cogs, like paste into strings into paste again, and only the machine keeps using time to make time to make time.
And when the machine stops, time is an illusion that we created free will.
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June 20, 2013, 06:12:32 AM
 #1585

Bkk,

Are there any news about I/O and chip communication yet? How is it going?
10X

Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:
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June 20, 2013, 06:27:00 AM
 #1586

BKK
I have a question
On both K1 and K16 board BOM the PIK controler is the same
but the configurations on the PCB for the PIC on K1 and K16 are different.
Any special purpose on that?
The only difference is that on the K1 there is no fan controller (2 pins) and external temp sensor (1 pin). I could  have left the thermistor in but I thought the internal PIC sensor would be enough for a critical cutoff. If that's not adequate after testing I may add it back in again. Also, of course, the K16 has 2 banks and so two sets of data signals out but the k1 only 1 chip (1 bank).

Note that as reported above there is an error in the power supply on the K1 board that requires a small board mod before you add parts, or before power anyway. I can detail it here or by PM.
No If you look over the plot file You'll notice ,that distance (not the pitch) betwin two groups of pads for the Pik is different on both boards.
It'looks like on K1 the pad configuration is for different chip.

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marto74
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June 20, 2013, 06:39:02 AM
 #1587

BKK
I have a question
On both K1 and K16 board BOM the PIK controler is the same
but the configurations on the PCB for the PIC on K1 and K16 are different.
Any special purpose on that?
The only difference is that on the K1 there is no fan controller (2 pins) and external temp sensor (1 pin). I could  have left the thermistor in but I thought the internal PIC sensor would be enough for a critical cutoff. If that's not adequate after testing I may add it back in again. Also, of course, the K16 has 2 banks and so two sets of data signals out but the k1 only 1 chip (1 bank).

Note that as reported above there is an error in the power supply on the K1 board that requires a small board mod before you add parts, or before power anyway. I can detail it here or by PM.
If you have time , please do it here .
This way more of people trying to make tests will see it.

http://technobit.eu
tips : 12DNdacCtUZ99qcP74FwchaCPzeDL9Voff
BkkCoins
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June 20, 2013, 07:28:39 AM
 #1588

Note that as reported above there is an error in the power supply on the K1 board that requires a small board mod before you add parts, or before power anyway. I can detail it here or by PM.
If you have time , please do it here .
This way more of people trying to make tests will see it.
I'm afraid there's terrible news on the K1 now.
I've stencilled a pair and was half way through placing parts when I discovered that the PIC footprint is not right. It is too narrow! I couldn't believe my eyes when I went to place it and it the part was 1.5mm too wide. Then I felt dizzy when I thought of the K16 boards. So I quickly checked them and they are correct! So what happened? Well, looking at the design files I see that the PIC footprint for the K1 is different from the K16. It appears there are two footprints in the Kicad library with the same name. So when I placed the k16, first, and checked it (really carefully), it looked good. But a few weeks later when I did the K1, I already knew it was right so grabbed it again, mistakenly taking the other footprint which it turns out is 1.5mm more narrow.

While this is undoubtedly my own fault I'd like to blame the Kicad workflow as well. In other design programs you assign your footprint once for each part. But in Kicad you have to assign the footprint every time you use a part during the step where you transfer to PCB, which naturally leads to this type of error. Believe me - I'm really ticked off now, that I didn't catch this and the other errors before the board went out. In past projects I would take my parts and lay them on a print out of the board to check everything looks ok, but in this case the boards were ordered before the parts were even here, so I never had that chance. I guess this is what I get for moving too fast under too much pressure.

My only choice now is to work on the K16 for initial testing while I fix the K1 and send it for new boards. I may as well learn what I can from the K16 before doing that as there could be design changes that would be pointless to miss on the k1. There probably is a hack job way to make the PIC fit the K1 board but given the K16 is here and needs to be tested I'm going to remove the parts, wipe it clean and start again on the K16.

Regarding the K1 power fix I have a PDF diagram of the changes needed but I'm not sure it's useful any more. I'll put it up on github in the kicad/nano directory as fix1.pdf.

Maybe I'll check again with the PIC placement if it's at all possible to fudge it in without shorting out something.


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June 20, 2013, 07:34:42 AM
 #1589

Note that as reported above there is an error in the power supply on the K1 board that requires a small board mod before you add parts, or before power anyway. I can detail it here or by PM.
If you have time , please do it here .
This way more of people trying to make tests will see it.
I'm afraid there's terrible news on the K1 now.
I've stencilled a pair and was half way through placing parts when I discovered that the PIC footprint is not right. It is too narrow! I couldn't believe my eyes when I went to place it and it the part was 1.5mm too wide. Then I felt dizzy when I thought of the K16 boards. So I quickly checked them and they are correct! So what happened? Well, looking at the design files I see that the PIC footprint for the K1 is different from the K16. It appears there are two footprints in the Kicad library with the same name. So when I placed the k16, first, and checked it (really carefully), it looked good. But a few weeks later when I did the K1, I already knew it was right so grabbed it again, mistakenly taking the other footprint which it turns out is 1.5mm more narrow.

While this is undoubtedly my own fault I'd like to blame the Kicad workflow as well. In other design programs you assign your footprint once for each part. But in Kicad you have to assign the footprint every time you use a part during the step where you transfer to PCB, which naturally leads to this type of error. Believe me - I'm really ticked off now, that I didn't catch this and the other errors before the board went out. In past projects I would take my parts and lay them on a print out of the board to check everything looks ok, but in this case the boards were ordered before the parts were even here, so I never had that chance. I guess this is what I get for moving too fast under too much pressure.

My only choice now is to work on the K16 for initial testing while I fix the K1 and send it for new boards. I may as well learn what I can from the K16 before doing that as there could be design changes that would be pointless to miss on the k1. There probably is a hack job way to make the PIC fit the K1 board but given the K16 is here and needs to be tested I'm going to remove the parts, wipe it clean and start again on the K16.

Regarding the K1 power fix I have a PDF diagram of the changes needed but I'm not sure it's useful any more. I'll put it up on github in the kicad/nano directory as fix1.pdf.

Maybe I'll check again with the PIC placement if it's at all possible to fudge it in without shorting out something.


go with K16
 I'm going to play with the pik on K1
I have parts and boards here anyway.
I'll report If We had some success

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BkkCoins
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June 20, 2013, 08:24:32 AM
 #1590

Just doing my sanity probing on the K16. Found first error: Vcc power for PIC is not connected. I know why, but I'm curious if anyone out there can find it and why Kicad does not report it during it's DRC check. Again, I know why, and in my opinion it's a huge failing of Kicad, but since I knew that it has this absurd behaviour I should have caught it especially with such an obvious line. Anyway, this one is easy to fix for the test board, and now I know I can fix the design file, but you know the whole point of design software is to not let this happen and Kicad fails miserably at this.


go with K16
 I'm going to play with the pik on K1
I have parts and boards here anyway.
I'll report If We had some success
I'll get the fix1.pdf posted then as it show where to cut and join for the power.

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June 20, 2013, 08:32:16 AM
 #1591

Bad news Angry

It is not your fault BKK so do not blame yourself for that. Kep us informed pls
Thank you very much

Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:
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And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D
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June 20, 2013, 08:37:03 AM
 #1592

Just take the PIC Chip, And Roll it on a hard surface (Desk works well) to bend all of the pins around and under the chip.  You'll convert it into a Gull-Wing style lead and then you should be able to solder it on to the K1.  I've done it many times when someone ordered a wide body SOIC instead of a narrow body SOIC for parts that come in both packages..

Enigma
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June 20, 2013, 08:51:32 AM
 #1593

Just take the PIC Chip, And Roll it on a hard surface (Desk works well) to bend all of the pins around and under the chip.  You'll convert it into a Gull-Wing style lead and then you should be able to solder it on to the K1.  I've done it many times when someone ordered a wide body SOIC instead of a narrow body SOIC for parts that come in both packages..

Enigma
That's a cool idea I'd have never thought of. I already removed all the parts and paste. But I may give it a try later. At the moment I'm checking the K16 board for unexpected continuities and I was going to cut a ASIC-less stencil for it next.

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June 20, 2013, 09:04:18 AM
 #1594

Keep up the good work  Grin

I hope my group buy guy didn`t really order the 100 pcs (k16) he said he did..lmao


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June 20, 2013, 09:04:50 AM
 #1595

Just take the PIC Chip, And Roll it on a hard surface (Desk works well) to bend all of the pins around and under the chip.  You'll convert it into a Gull-Wing style lead and then you should be able to solder it on to the K1.  I've done it many times when someone ordered a wide body SOIC instead of a narrow body SOIC for parts that come in both packages..

Enigma
That's a cool idea I'd have never thought of. I already removed all the parts and paste. But I may give it a try later. At the moment I'm checking the K16 board for unexpected continuities and I was going to cut a ASIC-less stencil for it next.

You did not get sample chips ?

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June 20, 2013, 09:05:44 AM
 #1596

Keep up the good work  Grin

I hope my group buy guy didn`t really order the 100 pcs (k16) he said he did..lmao


WOW
who's that

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June 20, 2013, 09:13:27 AM
 #1597

Just take the PIC Chip, And Roll it on a hard surface (Desk works well) to bend all of the pins around and under the chip.  You'll convert it into a Gull-Wing style lead and then you should be able to solder it on to the K1.  I've done it many times when someone ordered a wide body SOIC instead of a narrow body SOIC for parts that come in both packages..

Enigma
That's a cool idea I'd have never thought of. I already removed all the parts and paste. But I may give it a try later. At the moment I'm checking the K16 board for unexpected continuities and I was going to cut a ASIC-less stencil for it next.

You did not get sample chips ?
No, I got samples but for the first board I'll place 1 manually after testing the power supply, and PIC first. I wish I was perfect but one wrong part placement in the power supply and you could end up with 12V going into the 1.2V line, or who knows what else could be wrong. I'd rather test it first, then test the PIC can communicate via USB (which it should be good for now), and then place an ASIC and test that communication. When there is too many unknowns it's best to go step by step.

(There are so many details. I didn't even realize until I wrote that above that the stencil I was using for the K1 was without NOR gate as well, from last week. So I need to cut a new one for the K1 too, with NOR gate.)

Burnin has his ASIC communication working now, though I don't know the details. I'm hopeful that mine won't take too much work either.

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June 20, 2013, 09:14:10 AM
 #1598

Keep up the good work  Grin

I hope my group buy guy didn`t really order the 100 pcs (k16) he said he did..lmao


WOW
who's that

PM Sent

Bicknellski
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June 20, 2013, 11:05:22 AM
 #1599

Just take the PIC Chip, And Roll it on a hard surface (Desk works well) to bend all of the pins around and under the chip.  You'll convert it into a Gull-Wing style lead and then you should be able to solder it on to the K1.  I've done it many times when someone ordered a wide body SOIC instead of a narrow body SOIC for parts that come in both packages..

Enigma
That's a cool idea I'd have never thought of. I already removed all the parts and paste. But I may give it a try later. At the moment I'm checking the K16 board for unexpected continuities and I was going to cut a ASIC-less stencil for it next.

You did not get sample chips ?
No, I got samples but for the first board I'll place 1 manually after testing the power supply, and PIC first. I wish I was perfect but one wrong part placement in the power supply and you could end up with 12V going into the 1.2V line, or who knows what else could be wrong. I'd rather test it first, then test the PIC can communicate via USB (which it should be good for now), and then place an ASIC and test that communication. When there is too many unknowns it's best to go step by step.

(There are so many details. I didn't even realize until I wrote that above that the stencil I was using for the K1 was without NOR gate as well, from last week. So I need to cut a new one for the K1 too, with NOR gate.)

Burnin has his ASIC communication working now, though I don't know the details. I'm hopeful that mine won't take too much work either.



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June 20, 2013, 04:20:54 PM
 #1600

Just doing my sanity probing on the K16. Found first error: Vcc power for PIC is not connected.

To me this is good news.  When I move house, I always relax once the first thing breaks, something has to be broken, once you find it the tension disappears and you can get on with the work at hand (this is not rational).

Thanks for your hard work BKK, we're a few weeks from chips arriving, certainly time for a re-roll or two.  Let us know if you need funds.

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