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Author Topic: [ANN] [XEL] :: Elastic - The Decentralized Supercomputer ::  (Read 199188 times)
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July 18, 2017, 01:01:45 PM
 #1681

So I've bought XEL on bittrex and now have to send a bit back Cheesy
Such a strange system, but then again I'm a newbie :p

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July 18, 2017, 01:49:42 PM
 #1682

Hi, I asked on the dev slack channel but comment was lost, I repost here.

I work in a research center and we use a supercomputer here. I have colleagues running simulations for materials testing and modelling.

Is it interesting for the project to get my hands on some (python) code to see if that would work on elastic? It is not possible to convince anyone here to use elastic because we recently bought a super expensive supercomputer (that is slightly used) but just for you guys.

If it is not very interesting I wouldn't ask because I need to ask superiors etc and it's a complex procedure.

P.S I <3 elastic
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July 18, 2017, 02:12:14 PM
 #1683

is XEL looking into quantum computing?!   Shocked
now THAT would be fucking something!!

anyways, buy time is now  Cool - thnx for cheap XEL and see you on uranus! lel

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July 18, 2017, 05:50:16 PM
 #1684


Is it interesting for the project to get my hands on some (python) code to see if that would work on elastic? It is not possible to convince anyone here to use elastic because we recently bought a super expensive supercomputer (that is slightly used) but just for you guys.

It won't work for the moment,  since (1) computations are now working only on the testnet (2) it works only for ElasticPl progrsming language.  And, if your code involves matrix multiplications (I guess it does for materials modelling) it won't work even later, since the amount of memory, available to an elasticpl task is extremely limited.

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July 19, 2017, 06:10:44 AM
 #1685

So I've bought XEL on bittrex and now have to send a bit back Cheesy
Such a strange system, but then again I'm a newbie :p

Install Elastic wallet and then withdraw from Bittrex to your XEL address.

Windows wallet is here
https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/windows-wallet-release-3-1-1/775

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snowboard789
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July 19, 2017, 07:06:06 AM
 #1686


Is it interesting for the project to get my hands on some (python) code to see if that would work on elastic? It is not possible to convince anyone here to use elastic because we recently bought a super expensive supercomputer (that is slightly used) but just for you guys.

It won't work for the moment,  since (1) computations are now working only on the testnet (2) it works only for ElasticPl progrsming language.  And, if your code involves matrix multiplications (I guess it does for materials modelling) it won't work even later, since the amount of memory, available to an elasticpl task is extremely limited.

I didn't mean to run this code, I am wondering if the dev team would like to take a look because on slack I read that they are looking for use cases. Are you sure modelling will not work even later? That is a bit dissapointing. Wouldn't the memory be increased at a later time? why not?
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July 19, 2017, 08:15:45 AM
 #1687

I didn't mean to run this code, I am wondering if the dev team would like to take a look because on slack I read that they are looking for use cases.

Ask devs? Wink  Slack or XEL forum would be better source, I guess.

Are you sure modelling will not work even later? That is a bit dissapointing. Wouldn't the memory be increased at a later time? why not?

I doubt, since XEL is focused on tasks, that are hard to compute yet easy to verify.  Matrix/tensor operations aren't.  Perhaps this could be solved by a clever math trick, but that's certainly above my math level.

Just to plug my 2bits: I'm working on a protocol to enable distributed tensor computations with all bells and whistles.

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July 19, 2017, 09:20:29 AM
 #1688

I want to start forging, but only have 600 XEL. Is it true that you need at least 1000 xel?


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July 19, 2017, 09:24:52 AM
 #1689

I want to start forging, but only have 600 XEL. Is it true that you need at least 1000 xel?



Yes

Join the Elastic revolution!  Elastic - The Decentralized Supercomputer
ELASTIC WEBSITE | ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD | ELASTIC SLACK | ELASTIC FORUM
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July 19, 2017, 11:40:53 AM
 #1690

I wrote an article on how to Withdraw XEL From Heatwallet / Send XEL to Heatwallet. I thought new-comers will find it useful http://ethereumfaq.org/withdraw-xel-from-heatwallet-07165/

BTC LITE - Bitcoin made Lighter, Faster & Cheaper http://btclite.org/
BTC LITE Marketing head - BUY BTCL
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July 20, 2017, 06:26:48 AM
 #1691

I wrote an article on how to Withdraw XEL From Heatwallet / Send XEL to Heatwallet. I thought new-comers will find it useful http://ethereumfaq.org/withdraw-xel-from-heatwallet-07165/

Thanks a lot. Smiley

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July 20, 2017, 09:00:30 AM
 #1692

I didn't mean to run this code, I am wondering if the dev team would like to take a look because on slack I read that they are looking for use cases.

Ask devs? Wink  Slack or XEL forum would be better source, I guess.

Are you sure modelling will not work even later? That is a bit dissapointing. Wouldn't the memory be increased at a later time? why not?

I doubt, since XEL is focused on tasks, that are hard to compute yet easy to verify.  Matrix/tensor operations aren't.  Perhaps this could be solved by a clever math trick, but that's certainly above my math level.

Just to plug my 2bits: I'm working on a protocol to enable distributed tensor computations with all bells and whistles.
Have talk about this with some colleagues in my aeronautical company, lot of modeling work. Because of the naturity of modeling problems and they contour conditions, they told me distributed computation is not possible in this kind of problems. We have our own gpu farm for this. OTOH, I'm an engineer, science oompa loompa, so not sure about it.

I'm not ENT dev neither affiliated with EternityGroup in any way. Simply, the coin gives good returns.
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July 20, 2017, 12:23:14 PM
 #1693

Because of the naturity of modeling problems and they contour conditions, they told me distributed computation is not possible in this kind of problems.

Depends.  I know how to do it for Deep Learning and Quantum Chemistry.

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July 20, 2017, 12:31:23 PM
 #1694

The BTC is up again today. Will XEL go to The moon?The concept of XEL is very good, and the subsequent price will be higher.  Undecided

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July 20, 2017, 02:30:06 PM
 #1695

The BTC is up again today. Will XEL go to The moon?The concept of XEL is very good, and the subsequent price will be higher.  Undecided

It was released too late for this altseason but should be fine in the future. I would say buy the fucking dip and look back in one or two years and claim your profit  Wink

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July 20, 2017, 04:41:20 PM
 #1696

Hi all,
Just an invitation to take a look at the thread on the XEL forums with regards to setting up a fund to award for use cases as well as towards scientific/non-profit endeavours:

https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/competition-to-develop-example-use-cases-promote-xel/769/16?u=ikaros

Quote
I was thinking it might be useful to have a competition to develop sample use cases for the platform.

This could initially be just to brainstorm ideas but could involve later rounds that evolve into actual functional development.

We could run it via social media (e.g. Twitter) and I could do a post on my Steemit blog (there are a lot of students and university people on there). Sometimes when you create a product having examples of how people can use it is helpful - people may even be unaware it is useful for them.

I was thinking of putting aside a 2000 XEL prize for this (other people can add to this too).

The thing is XEL isn't worth a lot or well known right now so a bitcoin based prize may be more enticing.

Not only would it be great advertising and promotion in itself but it could also bring in new developers to help EK and CoralReefer.

One further thing that I was thinking of, would be to approach various respected people in the field - e.g. distributed computation (and also cryptocurrency) in an advisory role.

What do others think?

Quote
I propose that part of this fund (say 20%) is kept in reserve to award/donate to scientific purposes or interesting projects that require some XEL tokens but shouldn't have to spend actual money for it. i.e. if someone from NASA (let's aim high here) wants to even try out the XEL project we could gift them some tokens so that they can at least have a play/tinker and use XEL without having to make any financial investment. Likewise, if there is some non-profit cause that requires use of XEL we could donate freely towards their cause.

Of course both of these would be the subject of some due-diligence and proof that they aren't just trying to get free money.

Seeing as @unvoid was the person who managed a lot of OTC transactions before we got listed on Bittrex, perhaps he would be up for managing the fund. I'm suggesting him as he is trusted.

Managing said fund would require both trust and some hard work, so we could perhaps propose a fee (2% or so) for the services rendered?

I'd propose that votes are made using the XEL wallet for each award, so the community gets to have some say.

Please participate in the discussion at this could be a really valuable investment of time and to give XEL some real usage in the real world.

curious stuff from the world of cryptocurrencies: http://cryptolonography.tumblr.com/
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July 20, 2017, 10:18:29 PM
 #1697

Project status update from EK:

https://talk.elasticexplorer.org/t/status-update-porting-elasticpl-c-to-elasticpl-java/799
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July 21, 2017, 02:35:33 AM
 #1698



Just to give a small update on what we are currently working on:

Preface:

The current approach has totally disconnected the verification of work from the remaining verification routines (which are required to verify the consensus critical PoS operations). The reason for this approach were on the one hand some concerns, that people were feeling unsafe to execute "untrusted" code. On the other hand, the verification on each node would limit the amount of time a work-task may run: imagine, that a pretty complex job is on the network which takes around 5 minutes to execute. If miners work 5 minutes on it, everything is just fine. But if every node needs 5 minutes to verify the solution, it wouldn't take long until the entire network stalls.

So the solution was to use "super nodes" which do this complex verification stuff. Super nodes were meant to be super-efficient very fast computers capable of doing many many verification if a very short time. However, and you all are right, this means centralization and "blind trust". But in fact, a decentralized system is what we want.

Codebase:

Supernodes were working fine (see PoC from a few months ago) and they were using the native xel_miner application (written in C) to do the verification. Xel_miner was not only encapsulating the entire mining logic but also provided an API for super nodes, which could enqueue the transactions seen on the XEL network and semlessly receive the verification result for further processing.

Goal:

We worked out a different (asymetric) verification method. This clearly limits the use cases to some extent but on the other hand it vastly increases the integrity of the entire blockchain.

The asymetric verification will allow us to code arbitrarily complex ElasticPL programs (they may run for hours) and define separate, much less complex verification functions (which finish in a blick of an eye). Verifcation routines must be coded very carefully (to avoid unwanted "trapdoor" solutions which do not reflect what we actually want) but there will be a developers guide sooner or later.

Now, this scheme allows us to move the verification back into the java code base and again perform the verification on all nodes. (All is not strictly correct, as you will learn in the next point). This way, we drop any super nodes and guard nodes, and avoid any kind of centralization at all.

Work should not be consensus critical:

In an early version of Elastic (way before the super node proof-of-concept) work transactions were regular transactions and were consensus critical. Probably everyone of those who followed the progress remember the chain forks due to some unforseeable error (differencies in floating point operations on different platforms could lead to a hard fork ... yes).

We do not want this, so we:
1. Do not model the work communication as actual transactions but as binary messages transmitted over the Elastic messaging system.
2. Only do work processing when a "work=true" flag is set in the config. If you do not want to participate in any working activity, you can leave this feature off and you will not participate in any verification whatsoever (good for those who do not trust any code). But if you decide to turn it on later on, you can just catch up by synching all new "unparsed" messages of this kind. This is possible, because the "sort-of parallel chain encoded in those binary messages" and the actual blockchain do not need to be in sync at any point. Well, let's not become too technical here!

The cool thing is: If something goes wrong with one work package, other work packages and, even more important, the entire blockchain remains unaffected by it. How the work-payments will be modelled in this "unconventional approach" will be revealed at a later point in time :wink:

Now comes the actual task:

And now comes the task, which causes so much work at the moment and which eats up every free second that we have: We have to port the C ElasticPL to JAVA ElasticPL - in a way, that both work in the same way, in all cases on all platforms.

I am half way through (all of it was done in the last week alone - it's been "burnout-ish"):


ElasticPL Java



What is there is the Tokenizing (splitting up code into tokens) and the construction of the Abstract Syntax Tree.
This was pretty hard - and this basically defines the entire ElasticPL language. What is still missing is the interpreter, and this is what I will be doing next.

If someone wants to play around, just open the project linked above in IntelliJ Idea and launch it. You will not see much, but those of you, who really want to dig into it, will quickly find out how to verify that the AST tree is actually built correctly. Also: feel free to report any bugs or any inconsistencies between the C and the Java version.

Disclosure: I currently do hold XEL coins.


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July 21, 2017, 03:56:47 AM
 #1699

I enjoying what i read from your insight and from checking other onlien sources for this coin/project.  I have bought a good amt since market all crashed last week and hope to see it rise big for value/price and tech in coming months and into 2018.  No reason this one shouldn't fly to moon!
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July 21, 2017, 04:35:08 AM
 #1700

Patience as they continue to develop XEL.  I bet it will get added to more exchanges within the next few months.  Meanwhile, I'm accumulating my bag on Trex for the time being.  Long term holder here. 

The switching of the code base is certainly interesting. 

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