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Author Topic: [4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool  (Read 4375052 times)
3otry
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October 30, 2019, 11:33:36 PM
 #22961

this is why i make my own statistic... i keep a journal of how much block was mined everyday since in join slush 1 month ago. and maybe i dont calculate right but from the hashing power of the pool 4.5eh (slush pool) vs the total hashing power of the bitcoin community 57 eh (from google) it seem to me that somehow and somewhat those number should be at least related. and from the month i have passed on slush pool, it seem like that hashing power of slush pool does not bring its share of blocks and i wonder why. but like i said maybe it is me who doesnt calculate right. i am new to mining but i would think that 11% of hashing power would bring 11% of blocks and not 5%.
No?
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October 31, 2019, 01:28:21 AM
 #22962

A simple example, if a pool was to get 80% luck for 250 blocks, The CDF[Erl] of 250 events with a mean of 80% luck (1.25) = 0.999886
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=CDF%5BErlangDistribution%5B250%2C+250%5D%2C++1.25%5D
This says that should happen about once in (1/(1-x)) * 250 = 2.19 million blocks the pool finds Smiley

I, of course, don't keep track of this pools luck or the number of blocks it has for that luck, but ... if it is having 80% luck over 250 blocks ... well, not sure why anyone would be mining here ...

I think you'll find your 50% luck figure is wrong though, since 80% luck is already far beyond likely what you would expect to happen.

... since redoing the calculation with 50% instead of 80% gives ...
CDF[Erl] of 250 events with a mean of 50% luck (2.0) gives .... about 1 in 2.1x10^37 blocks
So yeah that will never happen in the life of the universe Smiley

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October 31, 2019, 01:37:53 AM
 #22963

The assumption of luck is that all gear mining at a pool works with proper firmware and submits shares correctly.

So plain and simple mining gear with bad firmware does exist and could be pointed at slush or at other pools.   

What can a miner do to combat this?


He or she can mine solo with their own gear.

He or she can mine at a pps+ pool which pays no matter what.


Do I know slush has been attacked with bad gear that is with holding blocks no i do not.

but i do know mining at a pps+ pool that  protects me from this attack.

i do pay more in fees for this protection which is my choice.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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October 31, 2019, 09:19:46 PM
Last edit: November 02, 2019, 05:39:20 PM by Vietjan
 #22964

this is why i make my own statistic... i keep a journal of how much block was mined everyday since in join slush 1 month ago. and maybe i dont calculate right but from the hashing power of the pool 4.5eh (slush pool) vs the total hashing power of the bitcoin community 57 eh (from google) it seem to me that somehow and somewhat those number should be at least related. and from the month i have passed on slush pool, it seem like that hashing power of slush pool does not bring its share of blocks and i wonder why. but like i said maybe it is me who doesnt calculate right. i am new to mining but i would think that 11% of hashing power would bring 11% of blocks and not 5%.
No?

A few months ago the total hashrate was 57 Eh/s, the total hashrate is much higher now: https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate (and remember that the numbers in this graph are estimates).

If you calculate how much bitcoin you should get with your hashrate on a site like Coinwarz, and you compare this with the 10/50/250 block numbers on Slush, you will see these numbers are correct. (And yes, we are on a really bad stroke of luck right now.)
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November 01, 2019, 09:55:16 PM
 #22965

Luck has been savage on Slush! i finally had to cave and try elsewhere for last several weeks.
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November 01, 2019, 11:47:57 PM
 #22966

...
What can a miner do to combat this?


He or she can mine solo with their own gear.

He or she can mine at a pps+ pool which pays no matter what.
...

i do pay more in fees for this protection which is my choice.
Or mine on a pool that does keep track of this and make sure the effect on miners is minimised ... which is easy enough (for me) to do.

Pool: https://kano.is - lowest fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
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Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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November 03, 2019, 07:54:00 AM
 #22967

so looking around found  Found

https://www.multipool.us/     


looks like they pool hash and point it to slush pool but have a diffrent payout system.

Look at the block explorer on their web page and compare it to slush pool blocks

Identical ?? or what are they doing ?

https://www.multipool.us/dashboard/pool/btc


https://btc.com/stats/pool/SlushPool

so whats up with this Huh

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November 03, 2019, 01:54:34 PM
 #22968

so looking around found  Found

https://www.multipool.us/     


looks like they pool hash and point it to slush pool but have a diffrent payout system.

Look at the block explorer on their web page and compare it to slush pool blocks

Identical ?? or what are they doing ?

https://www.multipool.us/dashboard/pool/btc


https://btc.com/stats/pool/SlushPool

so whats up with this Huh



Yes they use slush as their upstream pool

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November 05, 2019, 04:37:01 AM
 #22969

so looking around found  Found

https://www.multipool.us/     


looks like they pool hash and point it to slush pool but have a diffrent payout system.

Look at the block explorer on their web page and compare it to slush pool blocks

Identical ?? or what are they doing ?

https://www.multipool.us/dashboard/pool/btc


https://btc.com/stats/pool/SlushPool

so whats up with this Huh



Yes they use slush as their upstream pool

so this is a way to mine at slush but with constant payouts ??
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November 05, 2019, 09:12:56 AM
 #22970

It doesn't look like it, from their wiki page it seems that they wait to get rewards from slush before sharing it out to their users.

https://wiki.multipool.us/mediawiki/index.php/Mining_Reward_and_Share_Calculations

Mine @ pools that pay Tx fees & don't mine empty blocks :: kanopool :: ckpool ::
Should bitmain create LPM for all models?
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November 05, 2019, 06:30:25 PM
 #22971

It doesn't look like it, from their wiki page it seems that they wait to get rewards from slush before sharing it out to their users.

https://wiki.multipool.us/mediawiki/index.php/Mining_Reward_and_Share_Calculations

good find, thanks for the info  Grin
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November 09, 2019, 10:48:12 PM
 #22972

What is wrong with this pool? Pool is stuck at 90% luck for awhile now.
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November 11, 2019, 11:54:13 PM
Merited by NotFuzzyWarm (1), MoparMiningLLC (1)
 #22973

So ... I had a discussion with gmaxwell about ... a while ago ... and he said that the large pools don't purposely make empty blocks any more since it's no longer necessary due to bitcoind being fast enough to not need to do it

(though my pool has proven it was never necessary anyway by never having empty blocks, due to never ignoring all transactions if any are available)

Anyway, today slush produced an empty block 603351

They also found the block before it, 603350.

Now when they found block 603350 and 603351, my bitcoind debug.log shows:
Code:
CreateNewBlock(): block weight: 3965699 txs: 2506 of 8755 fees: 0.43025836 sigops 17480

UpdateTip: new best=0000000000000000000668604f0acc91d12483ea4837f742dffb910d8c7fd84c height=603350 version=0x20002000 log2_work=91.322655 tx=473721413 date='2019-11-11 20:31:12' progress=1.000000 cache=79.0MiB(579629txo) warning='55 of last 100 blocks have unexpected version'

CreateNewBlock(): block weight: 3965648 txs: 2468 of 6252 fees: 0.20234402 sigops 18841

UpdateTip: new best=000000000000000000136973e9bfdfc7151d9929d33fa95827a4107ec5115eed height=603351 version=0x20400000 log2_work=91.322681 tx=473721414 date='2019-11-11 20:31:41' progress=1.000000 cache=79.0MiB(579654txo) warning='56 of last 100 blocks have unexpected version'

CreateNewBlock(): block weight: 3965469 txs: 2463 of 6290 fees: 0.20634536 sigops 18749
i.e. there were at least 8755 transactions available before they found block 603350, of which they used about 2500, and over 6200 transactions available for block 603351 after processing block 603350.

i.e. they purposefully created an empty block 603351 value 12.5 BTC instead of it being at least 12.70234402 BTC and using over 2400 transactions.

So I beg to differ with gmaxwell about his claim that slush pool doesn't code to find empty blocks during a block change Smiley

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November 16, 2019, 05:29:19 PM
Merited by frodocooper (2)
 #22974

So ... I had a discussion with gmaxwell about ... a while ago ... and he said that the large pools don't purposely make empty blocks any more since it's no longer necessary due to bitcoind being fast enough to not need to do it

(though my pool has proven it was never necessary anyway by never having empty blocks, due to never ignoring all transactions if any are available)

Anyway, today slush produced an empty block 603351

They also found the block before it, 603350.

Now when they found block 603350 and 603351, my bitcoind debug.log shows:
Code:
CreateNewBlock(): block weight: 3965699 txs: 2506 of 8755 fees: 0.43025836 sigops 17480

UpdateTip: new best=0000000000000000000668604f0acc91d12483ea4837f742dffb910d8c7fd84c height=603350 version=0x20002000 log2_work=91.322655 tx=473721413 date='2019-11-11 20:31:12' progress=1.000000 cache=79.0MiB(579629txo) warning='55 of last 100 blocks have unexpected version'

CreateNewBlock(): block weight: 3965648 txs: 2468 of 6252 fees: 0.20234402 sigops 18841

UpdateTip: new best=000000000000000000136973e9bfdfc7151d9929d33fa95827a4107ec5115eed height=603351 version=0x20400000 log2_work=91.322681 tx=473721414 date='2019-11-11 20:31:41' progress=1.000000 cache=79.0MiB(579654txo) warning='56 of last 100 blocks have unexpected version'

CreateNewBlock(): block weight: 3965469 txs: 2463 of 6290 fees: 0.20634536 sigops 18749
i.e. there were at least 8755 transactions available before they found block 603350, of which they used about 2500, and over 6200 transactions available for block 603351 after processing block 603350.

i.e. they purposefully created an empty block 603351 value 12.5 BTC instead of it being at least 12.70234402 BTC and using over 2400 transactions.

So I beg to differ with gmaxwell about his claim that slush pool doesn't code to find empty blocks during a block change Smiley

Or, they are running hardware that is stressed to the max and cannot keep up. Or they have something very poorly configured.

I believe in the concept of never believe people are doing something wrong deliberately. It's usually just incompetence. (Look at the Trezor vulnerabilities)

They might not want to generate empty blocks, they might not even be trying to. They just are.

-Dave

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November 17, 2019, 05:17:49 AM
 #22975

They might not want to generate empty blocks, they might not even be trying to. They just are.
-Dave
This could be the case but it's still a poor excuse not to improve. Their entire service is based on mining blocks and the transaction/rewards to be as profitable as possible for their miners. Transactions are the biggest reason for a miner to choose a PPLNS pool, so not doing everything possible to avoid empty blocks is just letting down your clients. On the flip side of that Miners exist to process these transactions, so if there is even 1 in the mempool it should damn well be in the block. I haven't been on slush for quite some time, but I think the problem has been they are big enough they don't care. There have been a lot of complaints about things like the merged mining rewards, and nothing has come of it. Unfortunately a lot of people just get complacent and don't reevaluate often enough, and if they are still make mad bank on the fees for the blocks mined without facing any real consequence where's there incentive to improve.

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November 17, 2019, 02:28:28 PM
Merited by Steamtyme (2), frodocooper (2)
 #22976

They might not want to generate empty blocks, they might not even be trying to. They just are.
-Dave
This could be the case but it's still a poor excuse not to improve. Their entire service is based on mining blocks and the transaction/rewards to be as profitable as possible for their miners. Transactions are the biggest reason for a miner to choose a PPLNS pool, so not doing everything possible to avoid empty blocks is just letting down your clients. On the flip side of that Miners exist to process these transactions, so if there is even 1 in the mempool it should damn well be in the block. I haven't been on slush for quite some time, but I think the problem has been they are big enough they don't care. There have been a lot of complaints about things like the merged mining rewards, and nothing has come of it. Unfortunately a lot of people just get complacent and don't reevaluate often enough, and if they are still make mad bank on the fees for the blocks mined without facing any real consequence where's there incentive to improve.

I didn't say it was an excuse for them not to improve. IF it's anything I listed it's a WORSE reason not to improve.
Nothing was particularly difficult to fix. Hardware is simple, to stressed add more. Configuration check around till you find the issue.

I started on slush a looong time ago. Left and never looked back. As you said between the merged mining and things like this it looks like they just don't care.

-Dave

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November 18, 2019, 03:48:09 AM
 #22977

They might not want to generate empty blocks, they might not even be trying to. They just are.
-Dave
This could be the case but it's still a poor excuse not to improve. Their entire service is based on mining blocks and the transaction/rewards to be as profitable as possible for their miners. Transactions are the biggest reason for a miner to choose a PPLNS pool, so not doing everything possible to avoid empty blocks is just letting down your clients. On the flip side of that Miners exist to process these transactions, so if there is even 1 in the mempool it should damn well be in the block. I haven't been on slush for quite some time, but I think the problem has been they are big enough they don't care. There have been a lot of complaints about things like the merged mining rewards, and nothing has come of it. Unfortunately a lot of people just get complacent and don't reevaluate often enough, and if they are still make mad bank on the fees for the blocks mined without facing any real consequence where's there incentive to improve.

I didn't say it was an excuse for them not to improve. IF it's anything I listed it's a WORSE reason not to improve.
Nothing was particularly difficult to fix. Hardware is simple, to stressed add more. Configuration check around till you find the issue.

I started on slush a looong time ago. Left and never looked back. As you said between the merged mining and things like this it looks like they just don't care.

-Dave

If the most important part of the pool code, to generate the work to be sent to the miners, was 'unfathomable' code to the 'new' people running the pool for the past few years, then that is an even greater reason to run away from slush Smiley

It's central to how the pool code works, it must work correctly every single time, it must generate a set of data (work) based on the transactions returned by bitcoind, to be sent to the miners.
It is the same base work to be sent to all miners (as slush also said in his argument about why work difficulty was not part of the strartum work data sent to the miners) that then a minor addition is added to differentiate the work for each miner.

If instead they have extra code paths to generating the work, then indeed they are purposefully generating empty blocks, since there really is only one way to generate it properly - based on the transactions available in the mempool.

So yes indeed it certainly must be "they don't care"

Pool: https://kano.is - lowest fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
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Freemine-001010
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November 19, 2019, 07:57:45 PM
 #22978

hey at least their luck seems to be changing  Grin

195.81 %
10 Blocks

122.11 %
50 Blocks

94.05 %
250 Blocks



once the 50 blocks gets to 150%  or the 250 blocks get to 97.5%     ill point 50% of my gear back here
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November 20, 2019, 02:07:29 AM
 #22979

So yes indeed it certainly must be "they don't care"

1 block in two months?  Do you even pool?    Maybe Slush can hire you to run their servers or something

Learn the *Truth* about Big Company Mining Pools!!! Stop Giving Your Money Away!!!
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November 20, 2019, 04:29:06 AM
 #22980

1 block in two months?  Do you even pool?    Maybe Slush can hire you to run their servers or something
Quite well in fact. The last 3 months of stats, have more blocks than expected, sure not a lot of them but that's not how you need to look at things when comparing pool size and earnings. That one block was equivalent to something like 26 days of mining for me elsewhere, and another one will still give me a damn good payout.  Though given your signature I'm sure you're aware of the advantages of his pool. A lot can change with a few people waking up and realising their 100PH or more would save 1000's in fees and non-empty blocks if they moved over to a pool with hella good support and infrastructure. It's obvious I moved most of my hash away but still have some on Kano's pool, and if things work out, I will move it all back in a heartbeat.

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