Off-Topic

[joeventura]

I wish everyone would pay in BTC...

You know that is really getting old.

You realize that to have Bitcoins, you have to mine bitcoins. So why the heck would you expect to have everyone pay in BTC?

On top of that, this is a new unknown vendor, what protection do I have paying in BTC? answer: NONE.

That's why you should never own a business selling BTC miners. Because you don't understand the very BASIC ground floor aspect of the business.

Are you arguing that you cant purchase Bitcoins outright from an exchange?

And that the counter party risk of fiat processors is better than the counter party risk of community trusted escrow agents?

Telling people what they do and don't understand is a bit of a stretch here.

An escrow agent on this site can get hit by a car tomorrow.
Nothing is a sure thing.
Buyers in these new ASIC miner deals need protection. That comes in the form of Paypal or Credit cards.
Everything else is a much greater risk.

In my mind:

1. Credit card
2. Paypal
3. Escrow agent
4. Bank Transfer
5. Direct BTC payment

is the order of ideal transactions from a safety perspective and if you are a new, unknown ASIC vendor (not a group buy from a known vendor) than #3 is not an option because they want the fund to fund the deal and #4 and #5 are a HUGE risk

Which leaves Credit Cards and Paypal.

[toxic_cz]

I wish everyone would pay in BTC...

You know that is really getting old.

You realize that to have Bitcoins, you have to mine bitcoins. So why the heck would you expect to have everyone pay in BTC?

On top of that, this is a new unknown vendor, what protection do I have paying in BTC? answer: NONE.

That's why you should never own a business selling BTC miners. Because you don't understand the very BASIC ground floor aspect of the business.

Are you arguing that you cant purchase Bitcoins outright from an exchange?

And that the counter party risk of fiat processors is better than the counter party risk of community trusted escrow agents?

Telling people what they do and don't understand is a bit of a stretch here.

+1

(joeventura does not deserve my answer)

[joeventura]

I wish everyone would pay in BTC...

You know that is really getting old.

You realize that to have Bitcoins, you have to mine bitcoins. So why the heck would you expect to have everyone pay in BTC?

On top of that, this is a new unknown vendor, what protection do I have paying in BTC? answer: NONE.

That's why you should never own a business selling BTC miners. Because you don't understand the very BASIC ground floor aspect of the business.

Are you arguing that you cant purchase Bitcoins outright from an exchange?

And that the counter party risk of fiat processors is better than the counter party risk of community trusted escrow agents?

Telling people what they do and don't understand is a bit of a stretch here.

I certainly don't mind paying for something to a company with a good track record and that has a product that will ship out the next day etc, but for me paying with paypal for something this expensive, and that has never sold anything before, nor has a working product, is the way to go. The risk are to high to pay in BTC cause ya may not see em come back. Not to say TH wouldn't refund BTC right away. Its just the principle of the matter for me. Most simply can't afford to risk a dime these days! (or a BTC for that matter)

I couldn't agree more! But Terrahash has NO record and the post was made here saying "I wish everyone would pay with BTC" which is very BAD advice in this deal.

We bitminers do not live in a fairytale land where everyone is honest. How many scams get uncovered here a week?

Everyone should NOT pay in BTC until they have a vendor with a real track record and today Terrahash does not deserve that trust....YET

[joeventura]

I wish everyone would pay in BTC...

You know that is really getting old.

You realize that to have Bitcoins, you have to mine bitcoins. So why the heck would you expect to have everyone pay in BTC?

On top of that, this is a new unknown vendor, what protection do I have paying in BTC? answer: NONE.

That's why you should never own a business selling BTC miners. Because you don't understand the very BASIC ground floor aspect of the business.

Are you arguing that you cant purchase Bitcoins outright from an exchange?

And that the counter party risk of fiat processors is better than the counter party risk of community trusted escrow agents?

Telling people what they do and don't understand is a bit of a stretch here.

+1

(joeventura does not deserve my answer)

There you go ruining my day

[massnerder]

Come on guys, we all know that paypal sucks.  The only real complaint I can see here is that TH didn't have CC processing in place ahead of time so they could avoid using paypal completely.  Either paypal will release the funds and we are all back on track again, or they give us all a mass refund and we can pay TH directly with the same CCs.  If that happens, we all get to keep our spots in the order queue, and most CCs give better buyer protection than paypal offers in the first place.  This is a bit disappointing, but unless paypal holds the funds and refuses to give us our money back OR release it to TH, I just don't see the big deal.

[Shimple]

All of you who keep saying its a scam, stop being annoying. Honestly. They have been keeping us up to date as much as possible and probably provide more communication then any other companies I have seen. I have talked to TH numerous amounts of times about everything. For god sakes they have an office. Give them a break honestly. Stop being impatient little kids. If your not satisfied ask for a refund but don't spread "scammers" around because they are not.

[joeventura]

All of you who keep saying its a scam, stop being annoying. Honestly. They have been keeping us up to date as much as possible and probably provide more communication then any other companies I have seen. I have talked to TH numerous amounts of times about everything. For god sakes they have an office. Give them a break honestly. Stop being impatient little kids. If your not satisfied ask for a refund but don't spread "scammers" around because they are not.

I have sent TH 3 messages, through their email and through their ticket system that "the natives are restless" and people are stopping wire transfers and paypal payments.  No response.

I called their phone, voicemail isn't even set up on it.

I am not saying scam yet, I am saying "red flags" and "crap customer service"

[syncer]

All of you who keep saying its a scam, stop being annoying. Honestly. They have been keeping us up to date as much as possible and probably provide more communication then any other companies I have seen. I have talked to TH numerous amounts of times about everything. For god sakes they have an office. Give them a break honestly. Stop being impatient little kids. If your not satisfied ask for a refund but don't spread "scammers" around because they are not.

Agree. This becomes really annoying

[Canna]

All of you who keep saying its a scam, stop being annoying. Honestly. They have been keeping us up to date as much as possible and probably provide more communication then any other companies I have seen. I have talked to TH numerous amounts of times about everything. For god sakes they have an office. Give them a break honestly. Stop being impatient little kids. If your not satisfied ask for a refund but don't spread "scammers" around because they are not.

Agree. This becomes really annoying

Whoever posted that people were acting like clingy girlfriends hit the nail right on the head.

[bsuperior2]

^ Agreed. Imagine how many emails / calls they are getting.
Small company brand new working out the kinks. Stay positive.

No reason to flame them already.

[dentldir]

An escrow agent on this site can get hit by a car tomorrow.
Nothing is a sure thing.
Buyers in these new ASIC miner deals need protection. That comes in the form of Paypal or Credit cards.
Everything else is a much greater risk.

In my mind:

1. Credit card
2. Paypal
3. Escrow agent
4. Bank Transfer
5. Direct BTC payment

is the order of ideal transactions from a safety perspective and if you are a new, unknown ASIC vendor (not a group buy from a known vendor) than #3 is not an option because they want the fund to fund the deal and #4 and #5 are a HUGE risk

Which leaves Credit Cards and Paypal.

I can respect that.  One price for that protection is the risk of unacceptable delays.

It all boils down to your risk management strategy.  Diversification with smaller position sizes is an additional approach.  Especially if your risk model assumes a possible 100% loss on any position.

Ideally, I'd like to see the risk reward curve favor pure BTC.

[joeventura]

An escrow agent on this site can get hit by a car tomorrow.
Nothing is a sure thing.
Buyers in these new ASIC miner deals need protection. That comes in the form of Paypal or Credit cards.
Everything else is a much greater risk.

In my mind:

1. Credit card
2. Paypal
3. Escrow agent
4. Bank Transfer
5. Direct BTC payment

is the order of ideal transactions from a safety perspective and if you are a new, unknown ASIC vendor (not a group buy from a known vendor) than #3 is not an option because they want the fund to fund the deal and #4 and #5 are a HUGE risk

Which leaves Credit Cards and Paypal.

I can respect that.  One price for that protection is the risk of unacceptable delays.

It all boils down to your risk management strategy.  Diversification with smaller position sizes is an additional approach.  Especially if your risk model assumes a possible 100% loss on any position.

Ideally, I'd like to see the risk reward curve favor pure BTC.

You hit the nail right on the head sir!! You are so right!!

I have done a smaller position, a form of payment with maximum protection and I have diversified my holdings.

I have orders with all the major providers as well as mining contracts with a bunch of folks. So the bases are covered.

Your advice is what I give anyone interested in BTC mining

[zurg]

All of you who keep saying its a scam, stop being annoying. Honestly. They have been keeping us up to date as much as possible and probably provide more communication then any other companies I have seen. I have talked to TH numerous amounts of times about everything. For god sakes they have an office. Give them a break honestly. Stop being impatient little kids. If your not satisfied ask for a refund but don't spread "scammers" around because they are not.

I have sent TH 3 messages, through their email and through their ticket system that "the natives are restless" and people are stopping wire transfers and paypal payments.  No response.

I called their phone, voicemail isn't even set up on it.

I am not saying scam yet, I am saying "red flags" and "crap customer service"

Joeventura, we are not interested in doing any business with you. You will never get any reply to any of those messages, so you can stop sending any more.

Lmao!

[joeventura]

All of you who keep saying its a scam, stop being annoying. Honestly. They have been keeping us up to date as much as possible and probably provide more communication then any other companies I have seen. I have talked to TH numerous amounts of times about everything. For god sakes they have an office. Give them a break honestly. Stop being impatient little kids. If your not satisfied ask for a refund but don't spread "scammers" around because they are not.

I have sent TH 3 messages, through their email and through their ticket system that "the natives are restless" and people are stopping wire transfers and paypal payments.  No response.

I called their phone, voicemail isn't even set up on it.

I am not saying scam yet, I am saying "red flags" and "crap customer service"

Joeventura, we are not interested in doing any business with you. You will never get any reply to any of those messages, so you can stop sending any more.

I , my friend are trying to help you. I got a whole bunch of people to buy your products and support your efforts.
Like I told you people are talking about refunds and stop bank transfers and my advice to you was that you need to come here daily and make your customers feel good about working with you.

[joeventura]

And to all other folks. We are very very busy and have very limited resources. Everybody is out today making arrangements, getting new boards printed, visiting the enclosure manufacturer to see which other material we can use instead of aluminum for the brackets (as the ones we received two days ago are very weak), setting up the assembly line for the new circuit board etc. etc. Please be patient, all your queries will be replied to.

that is all you had to say. When you stop responding people worry

[frankenmint]

All of you who keep saying its a scam, stop being annoying. Honestly. They have been keeping us up to date as much as possible and probably provide more communication then any other companies I have seen. I have talked to TH numerous amounts of times about everything. For god sakes they have an office. Give them a break honestly. Stop being impatient little kids. If your not satisfied ask for a refund but don't spread "scammers" around because they are not.

I have sent TH 3 messages, through their email and through their ticket system that "the natives are restless" and people are stopping wire transfers and paypal payments.  No response.

I called their phone, voicemail isn't even set up on it.

I am not saying scam yet, I am saying "red flags" and "crap customer service"

Joeventura, we are not interested in doing any business with you. You will never get any reply to any of those messages, so you can stop sending any more.

I live in Sunnyvale ---very close to your office...Can I make a visit?  We'll talk terrahash mining and your experiences with it,  I'll buy you a coffee or a sandwich.  After the convo I can post replies onto this board of the impression I had visiting your office and hopefully garner you more reinforced "credibility"  I am interested in looking at prototypes if you don't mind - just to acknowledge with everyone else that you have real Proof of concept units and not rendered drawings.  Sorry I'm not trying to come off as overbearing or skeptical, I just want you to know where I stand.T  hink "lab_rat" visit to BFL labs

[zurg]

And to all other folks. We are very very busy and have very limited resources. Everybody is out today making arrangements, getting new boards printed, visiting the enclosure manufacturer to see which other material we can use instead of aluminum for the brackets (as the ones we received two days ago are very weak), setting up the assembly line for the new circuit board etc. etc. Please be patient, all your queries will be replied to.

Thanks,  all we needed to hear.  

[cad_cdn]

+1

And to all other folks. We are very very busy and have very limited resources. Everybody is out today making arrangements, getting new boards printed, visiting the enclosure manufacturer to see which other material we can use instead of aluminum for the brackets (as the ones we received two days ago are very weak), setting up the assembly line for the new circuit board etc. etc. Please be patient, all your queries will be replied to.

Thanks,  all we needed to hear.  

[bitcoin carpenter]

And to all other folks. We are very very busy and have very limited resources. Everybody is out today making arrangements, getting new boards printed, visiting the enclosure manufacturer to see which other material we can use instead of aluminum for the brackets (as the ones we received two days ago are very weak), setting up the assembly line for the new circuit board etc. etc. Please be patient, all your queries will be replied to.

cheers, thanks for the update

[gon2]

Guys keep waiting and stop panicking. They are trying to communicate with us as often as they can. If they will be sitting by computer all day and answering our qusetions they will never complete the job.  Keep positive thinking