Off-Topic

[MinermanNC]

Before anyone in hear ever bitches about anything, please list you TH order number and the amount of chips you have on order with them. Otherwise stfu

Sincerely,
Thank you,
MMNC

[ak49er]

Before anyone in hear ever bitches about anything, please list you TH order number and the amount of chips you have on order with them. Otherwise stfu

Sincerely,
Thank you,
MMNC

I'm just here for the entertainment value.

TH order number zero
Chips on order zero
Watching kkooks run around like a headless chicken - priceless.

[MinermanNC]

Before anyone in hear ever bitches about anything, please list you TH order number and the amount of chips you have on order with them. Otherwise stfu

Sincerely,
Thank you,
MMNC

I'm just here for the entertainment value.

TH order number zero
Chips on order zero
Watching kkooks run around like a headless chicken - priceless.

LOL!!!!! I hear ya,,,
Thanks for posting your credentials just the same

[kkooks]

"Divulging information that no professional company....?"

WTF is this?

Do you seriously think that Terrahash is under any obligation to post pictures of POs?  Or even parts come to that?  Or to discuss any negotiations they may be in with any supplier for any parts large or small?  Whether said supplier is on time or late?

Either way it makes no odds to me, as I chose not to pre-order.  They still look like the best bet if they ever manage to get some in stock, and that's when I'll buy.

Uhhh... you didnt buy anything and you are defending their stellar performance thus far?

Great. We clearly know you have the best at heart for all parties.

To your points... I agree. But if we didnt start asking these questions, we would not have known how to help terrahash with their mess.
It is clear cut that they could not have met the obligations to deliver on time even if the Avalon chips arrived a month ago.

If you read terrahash's post a few moments ago, you will find that he is still far behind from getting the Raw BOM pieced together.

Also... not to inflame old discussions again but... he still hasnt been able to get even a single Klondike to hash at the advertised rate.

... which is why i am saying we still have many problems we need to focus on trying to level up Terrahash in order to dream of ever seeing our orders...

[MinermanNC]

"Divulging information that no professional company....?"

WTF is this?

Do you seriously think that Terrahash is under any obligation to post pictures of POs?  Or even parts come to that?  Or to discuss any negotiations they may be in with any supplier for any parts large or small?  Whether said supplier is on time or late?

Either way it makes no odds to me, as I chose not to pre-order.  They still look like the best bet if they ever manage to get some in stock, and that's when I'll buy.

Uhhh... you didnt buy anything and you are defending their stellar performance thus far?

Great. We clearly know you have the best at heart for all parties.

To your points... I agree. But if we didnt start asking these questions, we would not have known how to help terrahash with their mess.
It is clear cut that they could not have met the obligations to deliver on time even if the Avalon chips arrived a month ago.

If you read terrahash's post a few moments ago, you will find that he is still far behind from getting the Raw BOM pieced together.

Also... not to inflame old discussions again but... he still hasnt been able to get even a single Klondike to hash at the advertised rate.

... which is why i am saying we still have many problems we need to focus on trying to level up Terrahash in order to dream of ever seeing our orders...

Excuse me? what do you mean they havent got a klondike to hash? where you been hiding under a rock? they were first to achieve just that,,,even before BKKcoins had a full k16 running/hashing...not sure where you are getting your info from....?
EDIT: advertised rate is only 281.25 m/hash per chip....

[ak49er]

I seriously considered placing an order at the beginning, but ultimately chose not to as I don't really have the liquid funds.  If I was convinced they would deliver on time I might have ordered, but even then my funds would only allow for a single K16.  What gets me right now is that people are snapping up ASICminer blades and Block Erupters at twice the cost per GH than Avalon offer.  While they are actually able to be mining in just a few days of order the huge increases we see in difficulty due to the influx of new equipment prices them out of the market pretty quickly, and possibly even Terrahash before they even get started.  Clearly this is why people are so upset.  I got in to this game way to late and I'll never make a profit, but I would at least have liked a fighting chance.  Doesn't look like that will ever happen now.

[kkooks]

"Divulging information that no professional company....?"

WTF is this?

Do you seriously think that Terrahash is under any obligation to post pictures of POs?  Or even parts come to that?  Or to discuss any negotiations they may be in with any supplier for any parts large or small?  Whether said supplier is on time or late?

Either way it makes no odds to me, as I chose not to pre-order.  They still look like the best bet if they ever manage to get some in stock, and that's when I'll buy.

Uhhh... you didnt buy anything and you are defending their stellar performance thus far?

Great. We clearly know you have the best at heart for all parties.

To your points... I agree. But if we didnt start asking these questions, we would not have known how to help terrahash with their mess.
It is clear cut that they could not have met the obligations to deliver on time even if the Avalon chips arrived a month ago.

If you read terrahash's post a few moments ago, you will find that he is still far behind from getting the Raw BOM pieced together.

Also... not to inflame old discussions again but... he still hasnt been able to get even a single Klondike to hash at the advertised rate.

... which is why i am saying we still have many problems we need to focus on trying to level up Terrahash in order to dream of ever seeing our orders...

Excuse me? what do you mean they havent got a klondike to hash? where you been hiding under a rock? they were first to achieve just that,,,even before BKKcoins had a full k16 running/hashing...not sure where you are getting your info from....?

brother... calm down and see things for yourself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOZ22GfUdzs

Ive been asking for a newer one remember? Hoping to see improvements...
Last anyone saw was that it was at 4Ghash with tonns of HW errors... the male PCIe wasnt even pinned out

Just FYI

[ak49er]

Uhhh... you didnt buy anything and you are defending their stellar performance thus far?

I'm not defending their performance, or even commenting on it.  My comments are directed to the misguided souls on this thread who seem to have far higher expectations of things than I ever would.

To your points... I agree. But if we didnt start asking these questions, we would not have known how to help terrahash with their mess.

I must have missed the part where you were just trying to help.

It is clear cut that they could not have met the obligations to deliver on time even if the Avalon chips arrived a month ago.

It is far from clear cut that they wouldn't have been able to meet the original delivery date.  Ever hear of JIT manufacturing?  If you know Avalon chips are going to be delayed you don't order PSUs or any other components that are on a quick turn around.  If you know you've got an X week lead time on cases you don't order them until X weeks before you need them.  If you're expecting the first batches of chips in a month and your prototype board isn't quite ready then you take a gamble on being able to get it ready.  That's still not clear cut that you won't meet the delivery date as promised.

If you read terrahash's post a few moments ago, you will find that he is still far behind from getting the Raw BOM pieced together.

I haven't read this, but I'm not sure why it's relevant?

Also... not to inflame old discussions again but... he still hasnt been able to get even a single Klondike to hash at the advertised rate.

Pretty sure he has, but either you or I are mistaken on this among all the noise in this thread.

... which is why i am saying we still have many problems we need to focus on trying to level up Terrahash in order to dream of ever seeing our orders...

And why I am saying you only have one known problem at the moment - no chips, no dice.

[Vigil]

It is far from clear cut that they wouldn't have been able to meet the original delivery date.  Ever hear of JIT manufacturing?  If you know Avalon chips are going to be delayed you don't order PSUs or any other components that are on a quick turn around.  If you know you've got an X week lead time on cases you don't order them until X weeks before you need them.  If you're expecting the first batches of chips in a month and your prototype board isn't quite ready then you take a gamble on being able to get it ready.  That's still not clear cut that you won't meet the delivery date as promised.

How could they have known the chips were going to be delayed? We supposedly didn't find this out until Yifu posted some blurbs on a blog. TH was supposedly operating on the same information that we were, which was that the chips would arrive 9-10 weeks after placing the orders.

[ak49er]

It is far from clear cut that they wouldn't have been able to meet the original delivery date.  Ever hear of JIT manufacturing?  If you know Avalon chips are going to be delayed you don't order PSUs or any other components that are on a quick turn around.  If you know you've got an X week lead time on cases you don't order them until X weeks before you need them.  If you're expecting the first batches of chips in a month and your prototype board isn't quite ready then you take a gamble on being able to get it ready.  That's still not clear cut that you won't meet the delivery date as promised.

How could they have known the chips were going to be delayed? We supposedly didn't find this out until Yifu posted some blurbs on a blog. TH was supposedly operating on the same information that we were, which was that the chips would arrive 9-10 weeks after placing the orders.

They were delayed long before that announcement.  Maybe they were waiting on a shipping notice that never came.  Maybe they were waiting on delivery to their doorstep.  Maybe they're clairvoyant.  Whatever their reason for not ordering the components you cannot say that there was no way for them to make the delivery date, and call them charlatans and liars, any more than I can say with certainty that they would have, and that they are God's angels sent to deliver us Bitcoins.

I'm just anti-speculation based on false logic.  That's all.

[kkooks]

JIT...
lmao JIT is only relevant if youre talking about a multimillion dollar manufacturing company with inventory enroute pipeline worth a damn. For a small shop, cost of capital savings wont register a bleep on the radar. Besides, it is only relevant if you are speaking of interest on your monies over time or opportunity costs for monies tied up etc etc... but he is sitting on our money interest free.

Now you get it?

this does not qualify...

please read text books on manufacturing. .. itll help you especially since it sounds like you have some interest-- I appreciate the way you think and I think itll be good for your personal growth

[ak49er]

JIT...
lmao JIT is only relevant if youre talking about a multimillion dollar manufacturing company with inventory enroute pipeline worth a damn. For a small shop, cost of capital savings wont register a bleep on the radar. Besides, it is only relevant if you are speaking of interest on your monies over time or opportunity costs for monies tied up etc etc... but he is sitting on our money interest free.

Now you get it?

this does not qualify...

please read text books on manufacturing. .. itll help you especially since it sounds like you have some interest-- I appreciate the way you think and I think itll be good for yiur personal growth

Whether it saves money or not is irrelevant, the principle is still the same.  If he didn't need the components there was no reason for him to order the components.  I'm not saying that he's employing JIT for any grand manufacturing ideal, but that simply put just because he didn't have the items on hand doesn't mean that he isn't going to have them by the time the chips arrive, which was your assertion.  It was you who kept saying he hasn't even got this yet.  He hasn't even got that!  How is he going to make these boards?!?!?  All I'm saying is that he doesn't need them until he's got the chips - which is kinda like JIT manufacturing, don't you think?

I just think you're worrying over the wrong things.  You see one thing go bad, (the Avalon chips), and now everything else has turned to shit too.  The reality as I see it is that it's impossible to see how shitty everything else might be because of the huge mountain of shit that's Avalon.  (And Cloudhashing before that.)

[MinermanNC]

I seriously considered placing an order at the beginning, but ultimately chose not to as I don't really have the liquid funds.  If I was convinced they would deliver on time I might have ordered, but even then my funds would only allow for a single K16.  What gets me right now is that people are snapping up ASICminer blades and Block Erupters at twice the cost per GH than Avalon offer.  While they are actually able to be mining in just a few days of order the huge increases we see in difficulty due to the influx of new equipment prices them out of the market pretty quickly, and possibly even Terrahash before they even get started.  Clearly this is why people are so upset.  I got in to this game way to late and I'll never make a profit, but I would at least have liked a fighting chance.  Doesn't look like that will ever happen now.

As far as the block eruptors,,,the 13 g/hash that are selling for 5,000 and early on for 13,000 lol,,,right now today that unit would earn you about $17.50 a day or $525.00 per month. ROI @5,000 bux (conservitively speaking) is about in 9.5 months...but would be more as difficulty rises....ok, food for thought. Oh and believe me about having the funds for a board?...I'm stretched myself on what is on order here, besides a sizable gpu farm i maintain,,,that hasn't paid for itself yet thank goodness for FTC right now

[Vigil]

It is far from clear cut that they wouldn't have been able to meet the original delivery date.  Ever hear of JIT manufacturing?  If you know Avalon chips are going to be delayed you don't order PSUs or any other components that are on a quick turn around.  If you know you've got an X week lead time on cases you don't order them until X weeks before you need them.  If you're expecting the first batches of chips in a month and your prototype board isn't quite ready then you take a gamble on being able to get it ready.  That's still not clear cut that you won't meet the delivery date as promised.

How could they have known the chips were going to be delayed? We supposedly didn't find this out until Yifu posted some blurbs on a blog. TH was supposedly operating on the same information that we were, which was that the chips would arrive 9-10 weeks after placing the orders.

They were delayed long before that announcement.  Maybe they were waiting on a shipping notice that never came.  Maybe they were waiting on delivery to their doorstep.  Maybe they're clairvoyant.  Whatever their reason for not ordering the components you cannot say that there was no way for them to make the delivery date, and call them charlatans and liars, any more than I can say with certainty that they would have, and that they are God's angels sent to deliver us Bitcoins.

I'm just anti-speculation based on false logic.  That's all.

No, none of this is possible. If they were waiting on delivery that would have only given them two weeks, well there is stuff they ordered weeks ago that won't come in until next week or the week after. They must have known there was a delay or they simply weren't able to meet the delivery date. If they knew there was going to be a delay, they should have stated: "it has come to our attention that there will be a delay in the chip shipments by approximately 2-3 weeks, etc."

[ak49er]

No, none of this is possible.

None of it?  Not even the bit about them being clairvoyant?  Are you sure about that?

[kkooks]

JIT...
lmao JIT is only relevant if youre talking about a multimillion dollar manufacturing company with inventory enroute pipeline worth a damn. For a small shop, cost of capital savings wont register a bleep on the radar. Besides, it is only relevant if you are speaking of interest on your monies over time or opportunity costs for monies tied up etc etc... but he is sitting on our money interest free.

Now you get it?

this does not qualify...

please read text books on manufacturing. .. itll help you especially since it sounds like you have some interest-- I appreciate the way you think and I think itll be good for yiur personal growth

Whether it saves money or not is irrelevant, the principle is still the same.  If he didn't need the components there was no reason for him to order the components.  I'm not saying that he's employing JIT for any grand manufacturing ideal, but that simply put just because he didn't have the items on hand doesn't mean that he isn't going to have them by the time the chips arrive, which was your assertion.  It was you who kept saying he hasn't even got this yet.  He hasn't even got that!  How is he going to make these boards?!?!?  All I'm saying is that he doesn't need them until he's got the chips - which is kinda like JIT manufacturing, don't you think?

I just think you're worrying over the wrong things.  You see one thing go bad, (the Avalon chips), and now everything else has turned to shit too.  The reality as I see it is that it's impossible to see how shitty everything else might be because of the huge mountain of shit that's Avalon.  (And Cloudhashing before that.)

hahaha I like it.
JIT is a legitimate tool to extract bang for your buck
If there are costs associate with your cash that is

in this case, it reflects poorly on what appears to be intention other than innocent piss poor project management.

[erk]

No, none of this is possible. If they were waiting on delivery that would have only given them two weeks, well there is stuff they ordered weeks ago that won't come in until next week or the week after. They must have known there was a delay or they simply weren't able to meet the delivery date. If they knew there was going to be a delay, they should have stated: "it has come to our attention that there will be a delay in the chip shipments by approximately 2-3 weeks, etc."

What if it becomes more than 2-3weeks? Isn't it simply better not to give estimates until they have something concrete from Avalon?

[atomicchaos]

Definitely has gotten out of hand here... It seems like everyone is hell bent on arguing with everyone else.

TH shouldn't need to provide any additional proof of anything at this point. I think everyone knew what they were getting in the beginning, and knew it was somewhat risky. We now look like delivery is going to be far later than expected, but this has nothing to do with TH at the moment. Those worried that they don't have their parts ready, should at least table that concern until it comes to a point where they don't meet the two weeks after delivery. How do we know when they get their chips? Not 100% sure, but we'll know by other group orders around the same timeframe at least.

I've said it a million times, before the mighty troll slayer, BG decided to attack everyone that mentions the slightest negative comment and needed some slapping around himself, I only have two current issues with TH.

1). Refunds - They did this "slimy" in the words of the TH cheerleader. They had a refund policy that allowed them, changed it right before the pre-orders, then stated on the forum that they would consider refunds once they sent out people's expected delivery date, then reinstated that they did not honor refunds. I get why they can't allow them, the funds are tied up in their parts, but frankly, those that paid via Paypal are full within their right to get refunds and have. This one doesn't impact me in the least, I cancelled my PP dispute, but still have a CC dispute available to me.

2). Support - They have yet to explain why they cannot answer simple questions through their support system, such as change of address, account status issues, transfer of ownership, etc.


Given item #2 above, I have very little loyalty to TH. When you are responsive to reasonable requests from customers, you tend to build a lot more loyalty. This is why if TH cannot send out my DX large by mid September, I will be getting a refund. I don't need their approval for this. They couldn't even be bothered with changing my order status from "refunded" to "processing" when I canceled my dispute.

[ak49er]

Definitely has gotten out of hand here... It seems like everyone is hell bent on arguing with everyone else.

I told you.  It's raining and I've got nothing better to do.

[Vigil]

No, none of this is possible. If they were waiting on delivery that would have only given them two weeks, well there is stuff they ordered weeks ago that won't come in until next week or the week after. They must have known there was a delay or they simply weren't able to meet the delivery date. If they knew there was going to be a delay, they should have stated: "it has come to our attention that there will be a delay in the chip shipments by approximately 2-3 weeks, etc."

What if it becomes more than 2-3weeks? Isn't it simply better not to give estimates until they have something concrete from Avalon?

I was just throwing numbers in. It doesn't matter how long. If they knew they should have said something, even a simple "we have gotten word that chips are delayed, we aren't sure how long but we will update you as soon as we have more details."

Why does this kind of thing have to be explained to you all? Its really freaking strange that you all are aware enough to get into Bitcoin yet common sense evades you - this is everyday shizzle that honest businesses do.

I think the deal with this stuff is that TerraHash and Avalon, etc. don't want to give people information, especially bad information because they fear that people are going to pull out and they don't want to be left hanging. So they don't update anyone with the bad news, they just play it off over and over again. "Don't tell them x, y, z, because that might scare people off, just tell them this... or nothing at all."