Off-Topic

[MinermanNC]

Since the new PC board hasn't been tested yet we can't be 100% sure its going to work with out some changes.
It sure would have been nice if TH would have bought 1 or 2 new PCB's a couple of weeks ago and tested it so they would be sure its ready for manufacture.

there is nothing 100% sure in bitcoin! lol, I dont care what it is,,,so,,,

[MinermanNC]

well I am just about to hit another 700 Feathercoins, so you know what that means   a BTC in the ol wallet coming right up! lol

Nice.

My miners are already back to Litecoin.

the way its dropping today (FTC),,I may be right behind ya...lol

[knightlife999]

Wow. All hell seems to have broken loose here. I'm kinda glad I took a night off.  

Still interested in knowing chips orders/order numbers from our most vocal pals. Everyone in the past put out their numbers.
How about you Kooks? What do you have on order with TH?

Cryptoin's TH order database: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccckey=0AiyRS_8Y_814dGM0cU5KdFJTVlpWeG9LSDJKYnNmMkE&usp=sharing

I have 35 k16s on order: Order# 565 & 1304 (560 chips total)

BTW, I love it when I get asked how much I am paid to be here. That's the last argument of a person who is being proved wrong. In case certain people didn't read back far enough to see my posts from visiting TH, here is a link to the pictures I took proving TH's 40k chips on order: http://s1334.photobucket.com/user/knightlife999/library/?sort=2&page=1

[Bitcoinorama]

Wow. All hell seems to have broken loose here. I'm kinda glad I took a night off.  

Still interested in knowing chips orders/order numbers from our most vocal pals. Everyone in the past put out their numbers.
How about you Kooks? What do you have on order with TH?

Cryptoin's TH order database: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccckey=0AiyRS_8Y_814dGM0cU5KdFJTVlpWeG9LSDJKYnNmMkE&usp=sharing

I have 35 k16s on order: Order# 565 & 1304 (560 chips total)

BTW, I love it when I get asked how much I am paid to be here. That's the last argument of a person who is being proved wrong. In case certain people didn't read back far enough to see my posts from visiting TH, here is a link to the pictures I took proving TH's 40k chips on order: http://s1334.photobucket.com/user/knightlife999/library/?sort=2&page=1

Of course you'll be accused of being paid; you got of your arse, whilst the accusers sat on theirs. Simple.

[xyzpdq]

I have been trying to keep up with this thread, or at least I think I have, and I am unclear on some of the details of the current Terrahash situation.  I was (un?)fortunate enough to be one of the first orders and was looking forward to mining, but am now reconsidering what my options are.   For those willing to share, I’m curious to know what others think is the best strategy at this point and why.

The way I see it, Terrahash customers have a variety of options... (please excuse my awkward presentation, it was the best I could come up with for organizing my thoughts)

1.   Try to get a refund.
   a.   Not clear on if this is possible.  It has been alluded to, but did not see any details.
   b.   CC dispute if paid through PP?  Not sure how willing CC will be after 50+ days after sale.
   c.   PP says no, but I did see another thread that claimed it was possible but took a month.
   d.   BTC/money order refund not likely unless TH voluntarily refunds.  This is unclear to me as they did say they would offer a refund once we get an email with an estimated delivery date.  Did we get that email?  Is the estimate “two weeks after we get the chips”?  So does that mean that they will no longer offer refunds?  Confused.
2.   Wait for TH to ship then sell the hardware
   a.   Will it be possible to sell the hardware for what it was purchased for?  This option feels like a letdown, but could be a way to back out of the whole thing.
   b.   When to sell?
      i.   ASAP – probably get more $ for hardware.
      ii.   Mine for a while first – I like this option, but probably won’t get much if anything for the hardware.
   c.   How to sell?
      i.   eBay.
         1.   Sounds sketchy with 50% scammers… not sure how to avoid scammers.
         2.   Does a high eBay rating necessarily mean they are not a scammer?
         3.   Is it possible to prevent chargebacks through PP/CC?
      ii.   Bitcointalk - It appears there are many successful auctions/sales on the forum.
         1.   How to handle escrow?
         2.   Best practices for seller and buyer on forums?
      iii.   Bitmit - I am unfamiliar with this site, but similar concerns as eBay.
      iv.   Meet in person… possible, not likely.
      v.   Other?
   d.   What to sell?
      i.   DX with 10 blades - probably harder to find a buyer.
      ii.   Individual DX blades - probably easier to sell, but no not sure what to do with the DX chassis.
3.   Keep equipment, mine with it, and hope for BTC to spike in the coming months.
   a.   Currently it looks like ROI could be possible in 6-12 months if mining starts in 45 days with the following assumptions and calculations:
      i.   Hosting with TH for $50/month – I believe this is equal to $0.0582/KWh based on http://www.electricity-usage.com/Electricity-Usage-Calculator.aspx?Device=DX180GH&Watts=1280&CostPerKWH=0.0582&HoursPerDay=24.
      ii.   http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/
         1.   Hardware: DX large
         2.   Initial Mining Date: October
         3.   Electricity Costs $0.0582/KWh
         4.   ROI: April 2014?

Keeping in mind that part (if not all) of the reason (at least for me) for getting into mining is to make a profit, or at least to not lose money, what do you plan to do base on what you think/speculate/theorize/prophesize will happen in the coming months?

Another thing I have been curious about is what others plan to do with the TH hardware once the difficulty get so high that there is little to no profit.  It sounds like the next gen chips might have different pad layouts?  Will it be possible to solder the next chips on the older boards?

No disclaimers necessary, I am fully aware that much of what is posted here is speculation. This is a summary of what I have absorbed from hours of reading the forums.  Please feel free to correct anything I have stated or assumed that is wrong!

Thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully contribute to my rambling questions.

[Bitcoinorama]

You can try to get a refund, but again I don't condone hurting a small business because of the risk that the customer took. I consider this fraud and won't be part of it.
(The above can be changed if the company advertised falsehoods such as BFL, but so far Terrahash has done nothing wrong (No matter what the "Kooks" will have you think))

Selling the Hardware once Terrahash ships is probably your best bet. People will pay a fairly good amount for HashPower in Hand.

If you are feeling a little brave and risky, you can mine with your hardware for 2-3 Weeks after receiving it and then Sell it for a decent price. As long as No HUGE players like KnC Ship during this timeframe you might come out ahead of just selling it when receiving.

Either way, there are still plenty of options. Hell if KnC misses their deadline this Unit could pay for itself easily. (I don't think KnC will miss that deadline)

That being said a 75% linear monthly difficulty increase isn't going to stay that way past maybe 3-4 months. Then it will level off unless you see some other big players selling $2/GH units. (Could happen!)

I agree. This is not Terrahash's fault and Kooks has some more nefarious reason to see them fail. It's Bitsyncom/Avalon you need to be chasing, but they won't answer, which is totally irresponsible, they know what people have riding in this. They openly encouraged people to creat businesses around them.

[knightlife999]

Knight has a more sniper like approach to the trolls where I just go in Guns a blazin.

I think we have the amount of badges though

Btw Terrahash pays me in trident layers.

[xyzpdq]

You can try to get a refund, but again I don't condone hurting a small business because of the risk that the customer took. I consider this fraud and won't be part of it.
(The above can be changed if the company advertised falsehoods such as BFL, but so far Terrahash has done nothing wrong (No matter what the "Kooks" will have you think))

Selling the Hardware once Terrahash ships is probably your best bet. People will pay a fairly good amount for HashPower in Hand.

If you are feeling a little brave and risky, you can mine with your hardware for 2-3 Weeks after receiving it and then Sell it for a decent price. As long as No HUGE players like KnC Ship during this timeframe you might come out ahead of just selling it when receiving.

Either way, there are still plenty of options. Hell if KnC misses their deadline this Unit could pay for itself easily. (I don't think KnC will miss that deadline)

That being said a 75% linear monthly difficulty increase isn't going to stay that way past maybe 3-4 months. Then it will level off unless you see some other big players selling $2/GH units. (Could happen!)

I agree. This is not Terrahash's fault and Kooks has some more nefarious reason to see them fail. It's Bitsyncom/Avalon you need to be chasing, but they won't answer, which is totally irresponsible, they know what people have riding in this. They openly encouraged people to creat businesses around them.

Yeah, I don't blame TH, I really do appreciate what they are doing and all their hard work.  I don't (currently) have the skills to assemble the boards and chips, but want to mine, so their as well as other's work is appreciated.   I realize Bitsyscom is the holdup, or at least I believe they are saying a large order of recently shipped chips are stuck in customs.  I have never debt with customs, does anyone know what type of realistic time frame we might be looking at?

[Bitcoinorama]

You can try to get a refund, but again I don't condone hurting a small business because of the risk that the customer took. I consider this fraud and won't be part of it.
(The above can be changed if the company advertised falsehoods such as BFL, but so far Terrahash has done nothing wrong (No matter what the "Kooks" will have you think))

Selling the Hardware once Terrahash ships is probably your best bet. People will pay a fairly good amount for HashPower in Hand.

If you are feeling a little brave and risky, you can mine with your hardware for 2-3 Weeks after receiving it and then Sell it for a decent price. As long as No HUGE players like KnC Ship during this timeframe you might come out ahead of just selling it when receiving.

Either way, there are still plenty of options. Hell if KnC misses their deadline this Unit could pay for itself easily. (I don't think KnC will miss that deadline)

That being said a 75% linear monthly difficulty increase isn't going to stay that way past maybe 3-4 months. Then it will level off unless you see some other big players selling $2/GH units. (Could happen!)

I agree. This is not Terrahash's fault and Kooks has some more nefarious reason to see them fail. It's Bitsyncom/Avalon you need to be chasing, but they won't answer, which is totally irresponsible, they know what people have riding in this. They openly encouraged people to creat businesses around them.

Yeah, I don't blame TH, I really do appreciate what they are doing and all their hard work.  I don't (currently) have the skills to assemble the boards and chips, but want to mine, so their as well as other's work is appreciated.   I realize Bitsyscom is the holdup, or at least I believe they are saying a large order of recently shipped chips are stuck in customs.  I have never debt with customs, does anyone know what type of realistic time frame we might be looking at?

You have the correct documents, you pay import duties, you walk away with goods the same day in person. If with a courier, you pay import duties over the phone, you receive the following day. In China without the correct documents, you pay, items are released. There is zero chance a multi billion dollar company, like TSMC packaged without the correct documents.

[xyzpdq]

You can try to get a refund, but again I don't condone hurting a small business because of the risk that the customer took. I consider this fraud and won't be part of it.
(The above can be changed if the company advertised falsehoods such as BFL, but so far Terrahash has done nothing wrong (No matter what the "Kooks" will have you think))

Selling the Hardware once Terrahash ships is probably your best bet. People will pay a fairly good amount for HashPower in Hand.

If you are feeling a little brave and risky, you can mine with your hardware for 2-3 Weeks after receiving it and then Sell it for a decent price. As long as No HUGE players like KnC Ship during this timeframe you might come out ahead of just selling it when receiving.

Either way, there are still plenty of options. Hell if KnC misses their deadline this Unit could pay for itself easily. (I don't think KnC will miss that deadline)

That being said a 75% linear monthly difficulty increase isn't going to stay that way past maybe 3-4 months. Then it will level off unless you see some other big players selling $2/GH units. (Could happen!)

Thanks for your feedback Bargraphics.  I'm cautiously leaning towards mining for a few weeks and then selling if anyone will buy the TH hardware at that time.  It feels a little risky, but gets me closer to my original goal of mining BTC.  I don't hope anything bad for KnC, but if they miss their date, I won't be too disappointed.  I wish I had bet on both, but did not see it in KnC until it was too late for me.

[atomicchaos]

The way I see it, Terrahash customers have a variety of options... (please excuse my awkward presentation, it was the best I could come up with for organizing my thoughts)

1.   Try to get a refund.
   a.   Not clear on if this is possible.  It has been alluded to, but did not see any details.
   b.   CC dispute if paid through PP?  Not sure how willing CC will be after 50+ days after sale.
   c.   PP says no, but I did see another thread that claimed it was possible but took a month.
   d.   BTC/money order refund not likely unless TH voluntarily refunds.  This is unclear to me as they did say they would offer a refund once we get an email with an estimated delivery date.  Did we get that email?  Is the estimate “two weeks after we get the chips”?  So does that mean that they will no longer offer refunds?  Confused.

I can't really help you with your other questions, as you indicated, much of that is personal choice, and depends on your overall goals. Reselling is probably the best option for the biggest ROI.

In terms of refunds though, if you paid via Paypal, you do indeed have one option left to you, assuming your credit card used is like most.. You can file a dispute with your CC for non-delivery (Be aware, you only have 90 days usually, but it could differ). Again, this should stir up the pro-Terrahash folks (I'm not anti-Terrahash, In fact quite the opposite, but I just have an issue with people defending them on this refund issue), but frankly, if you offer refunds, then pull the wording right before the pre-orders, then post that they will be considered, and then finally post that they won't be honored, you don't have any leg to stand on, not even looking at consumer protection laws. Besides, while this is the Crypto world and the game is different, credit card companies don't see this any different.

When I pre-order a next gen TV from Best buy, and it is not delivered by the time that I would like, I'm going to ask for a refund, and if not granted, I'll get the refund through a dispute. Mitigated risk. These are not customized devices, they ordered parts based on the number of orders, and can easily resell them, especially if they answered their support tickets for authorizing change of ownership.

[xyzpdq]

You can try to get a refund, but again I don't condone hurting a small business because of the risk that the customer took. I consider this fraud and won't be part of it.
(The above can be changed if the company advertised falsehoods such as BFL, but so far Terrahash has done nothing wrong (No matter what the "Kooks" will have you think))

Selling the Hardware once Terrahash ships is probably your best bet. People will pay a fairly good amount for HashPower in Hand.

If you are feeling a little brave and risky, you can mine with your hardware for 2-3 Weeks after receiving it and then Sell it for a decent price. As long as No HUGE players like KnC Ship during this timeframe you might come out ahead of just selling it when receiving.

Either way, there are still plenty of options. Hell if KnC misses their deadline this Unit could pay for itself easily. (I don't think KnC will miss that deadline)

That being said a 75% linear monthly difficulty increase isn't going to stay that way past maybe 3-4 months. Then it will level off unless you see some other big players selling $2/GH units. (Could happen!)

I agree. This is not Terrahash's fault and Kooks has some more nefarious reason to see them fail. It's Bitsyncom/Avalon you need to be chasing, but they won't answer, which is totally irresponsible, they know what people have riding in this. They openly encouraged people to creat businesses around them.

Yeah, I don't blame TH, I really do appreciate what they are doing and all their hard work.  I don't (currently) have the skills to assemble the boards and chips, but want to mine, so their as well as other's work is appreciated.   I realize Bitsyscom is the holdup, or at least I believe they are saying a large order of recently shipped chips are stuck in customs.  I have never debt with customs, does anyone know what type of realistic time frame we might be looking at?

You have the correct documents, you pay import duties, you walk away with goods the same day in person. If with a courier, you pay import duties over the phone, you receive the following day. In China without the correct documents, you pay, items are released. There is zero chance a multi billion dollar company, like TSMC packaged without the correct documents.

I'm not sure I understand.  Does that mean that the chips that are stuck in customs will only be there for a few days?

[-Redacted-]

That means YiFu's story about the chips being stuck in customs is complete BS to start with.

[xyzpdq]

The way I see it, Terrahash customers have a variety of options... (please excuse my awkward presentation, it was the best I could come up with for organizing my thoughts)

1.   Try to get a refund.
   a.   Not clear on if this is possible.  It has been alluded to, but did not see any details.
   b.   CC dispute if paid through PP?  Not sure how willing CC will be after 50+ days after sale.
   c.   PP says no, but I did see another thread that claimed it was possible but took a month.
   d.   BTC/money order refund not likely unless TH voluntarily refunds.  This is unclear to me as they did say they would offer a refund once we get an email with an estimated delivery date.  Did we get that email?  Is the estimate “two weeks after we get the chips”?  So does that mean that they will no longer offer refunds?  Confused.

I can't really help you with your other questions, as you indicated, much of that is personal choice, and depends on your overall goals. Reselling is probably the best option for the biggest ROI.

In terms of refunds though, if you paid via Paypal, you do indeed have one option left to you, assuming your credit card used is like most.. You can file a dispute with your CC for non-delivery (Be aware, you only have 90 days usually, but it could differ). Again, this should stir up the pro-Terrahash folks (I'm not anti-Terrahash, In fact quite the opposite, but I just have an issue with people defending them on this refund issue), but frankly, if you offer refunds, then pull the wording right before the pre-orders, then post that they will be considered, and then finally post that they won't be honored, you don't have any leg to stand on, not even looking at consumer protection laws. Besides, while this is the Crypto world and the game is different, credit card companies don't see this any different.

I don't want to hurt TH, but the switcheroo with the refund policy was lame.  Their original refund policy was one of the reasons I invested.  I understand they had to use the money, but still lame.  I will leave the CC dispute as a last resort if they really don't deliver in 90 days (9/16/2013?)... yikes, that is closer than I thought.  Well, maybe I will not be able to use the CC dispute... is it realistic that they will deliver in 34 days?  Ugh, this get more complex by the day.

[MinermanNC]

The way I see it, Terrahash customers have a variety of options... (please excuse my awkward presentation, it was the best I could come up with for organizing my thoughts)

1.   Try to get a refund.
   a.   Not clear on if this is possible.  It has been alluded to, but did not see any details.
   b.   CC dispute if paid through PP?  Not sure how willing CC will be after 50+ days after sale.
   c.   PP says no, but I did see another thread that claimed it was possible but took a month.
   d.   BTC/money order refund not likely unless TH voluntarily refunds.  This is unclear to me as they did say they would offer a refund once we get an email with an estimated delivery date.  Did we get that email?  Is the estimate “two weeks after we get the chips”?  So does that mean that they will no longer offer refunds?  Confused.

I can't really help you with your other questions, as you indicated, much of that is personal choice, and depends on your overall goals. Reselling is probably the best option for the biggest ROI.

In terms of refunds though, if you paid via Paypal, you do indeed have one option left to you, assuming your credit card used is like most.. You can file a dispute with your CC for non-delivery (Be aware, you only have 90 days usually, but it could differ). Again, this should stir up the pro-Terrahash folks (I'm not anti-Terrahash, In fact quite the opposite, but I just have an issue with people defending them on this refund issue), but frankly, if you offer refunds, then pull the wording right before the pre-orders, then post that they will be considered, and then finally post that they won't be honored, you don't have any leg to stand on, not even looking at consumer protection laws. Besides, while this is the Crypto world and the game is different, credit card companies don't see this any different.

I don't want to hurt TH, but the switcheroo with the refund policy was lame.  Their original refund policy was one of the reasons I invested.  I understand they had to use the money, but still lame.  I will leave the CC dispute as a last resort if they really don't deliver in 90 days (9/16/2013?)... yikes, that is closer than I thought.  Well, maybe I will not be able to use the CC dispute... is it realistic that they will deliver in 34 days?  Ugh, this get more complex by the day.

ditto here

[xyzpdq]

That means YiFu's story about the chips being stuck in customs is complete BS to start with.

YiFu seems so genuine in his interviews and most of his posts I've read.  Any speculation on what is really going on?  I read the http://www.avalon-asics.com/ post when they came out, but did not know what to make of it.

[atomicchaos]

I don't want to hurt TH, but the switcheroo with the refund policy was lame.  Their original refund policy was one of the reasons I invested.  I understand they had to use the money, but still lame.  I will leave the CC dispute as a last resort if they really don't deliver in 90 days (9/16/2013?)... yikes, that is closer than I thought.  Well, maybe I will not be able to use the CC dispute... is it realistic that they will deliver in 34 days?  Ugh, this get more complex by the day.

I respect your views, and I agree that the refund policy switch was a bit lame. But even further, the fact that they don't answer questions of transfers and other account status issues, they are inviting this.

While I completely agree that the delays are not Terrahash's fault at this point at all, they should have been slightly less aggressive with their expected dates, even when stating the two weeks after chips arrive date. Again, it is what it is, so you're faced with your own decision that makes the most sense for you. Ignore anyone else's self-serving opinion... Some don't want you to request a refund, as they believe it hurts their chances to get their machine, but again, if TH was so concerned about this, they would answer related questions and support tickets.

[-Redacted-]

That means YiFu's story about the chips being stuck in customs is complete BS to start with.

YiFu seems so genuine in his interviews and most of his posts I've read.  Any speculation on what is really going on?  I read the http://www.avalon-asics.com/ post when they came out, but did not know what to make of it.

The obvious answer is that someone offered YiFu a crapload of cash to sit on these chips - someone who either didn't want to see all these new businesses springing-up around the chips succeed, or who's bottom line would be impacted when all these new devices came on line, or both.  An offer too good to refuse....  In other news, I hear ASICminer is having another 1/2 million Block Erupters manufactured....

[Bitcoinorama]

That means YiFu's story about the chips being stuck in customs is complete BS to start with.

YiFu seems so genuine in his interviews and most of his posts I've read.  Any speculation on what is really going on?  I read the http://www.avalon-asics.com/ post when they came out, but did not know what to make of it.

The obvious answer is that someone offered YiFu a crapload of cash to sit on these chips - someone who either didn't want to see all these new businesses springing-up around the chips succeed, or who's bottom line would be impacted when all these new devices came on line, or both.  An offer too good to refuse....

It's the real deal "get rich quick" scheme.

[MinermanNC]

That means YiFu's story about the chips being stuck in customs is complete BS to start with.

YiFu seems so genuine in his interviews and most of his posts I've read.  Any speculation on what is really going on?  I read the http://www.avalon-asics.com/ post when they came out, but did not know what to make of it.

The obvious answer is that someone offered YiFu a crapload of cash to sit on these chips - someone who either didn't want to see all these new businesses springing-up around the chips succeed, or who's bottom line would be impacted when all these new devices came on line, or both.  An offer too good to refuse....

ya something like that may have went down,,,,at this point id rather he had sat on them,,,,,,,and starts shipping again this week,,,,as opposed to the chips have been hijacked or sold off completely somewhere? or theft? and they never arrive! Its really out of our controll anyways, we all are at his mercy, like it or not. So i am just waiting for something this week from him to say they are shipping again and when. After this week its on to plan b Im afraid.