KnCMiner Openday Wednesday 5th & Monday 10th June

[shep80]

I am probably in the minority, but I ordered a Mars, for the discount on Jupiter, but also to have the Mars.

An expensive 6 GH machine, but it would have mined BTC for a bit before the difficulty goes through the roof.
It would make ROI before the majority of Avalon chips reach the wild, in all likelihood.

KnC FUD'd themselves today.

My comments are exactly the same. As a result I am not ordering.

Plus, Mars would have shown the ability to ship a product at scale. Something manufacturers have not done well at...

[1714103078]

1714103078

[1714103078]

1714103078

[1714103078]

1714103078

[1714103078]

1714103078

[1714103078]

1714103078

[FlappySocks]

It will be the open days that get cancelled next.

[retro72]

I took the liberty and quoted the following from PL from a BFL thread:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside#user_responsibilities

Part 4

Prohibited Transactions. You agree that you will not use PayPal to accept payment for illegal products or services, including but not limited to materials that infringe the intellectual property rights of third parties. You will not use the Service, the PayPal website or any of the services offered therein for any unlawful or fraudulent activity. If PayPal (or Wells Fargo, in connection with processing credit card transactions) has reason to believe that you may be engaging in or have engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, or improper activity, including without limitation any violation of any terms and conditions of this Agreement, your access to the Service may be suspended or terminated. Further, if such behavior involved a MasterCard or VISA credit card transaction, it may result in you/your business being prevented from registering for payment acceptance through any payment provider or directly with any bank acquirer operating under license to either the MasterCard or VISA card associations. You will cooperate fully with PayPal Wells Fargo, MasterCard or VISA to investigate any suspected unlawful, fraudulent or improper activity, including but not limited to granting authorized PayPal representatives "guest" or "member" access to any password-protected portions of your website.

You also agree not to use your PayPal account to sell goods with delivery dates delayed more than 20 days from the date of payment, or to sell securities, business opportunities, franchises or multi-level marketing or goods with delivery delayed more than 20 days from the date of payment. You agree not to impersonate a PayPal User or a PayPal representative, or to request that a PayPal customer provide you with their password or other information to access their account.

=================

Highlights for pointing out the obvious...

Sorry what's the point?! I rang Paypal and Barclaycard earlier and they were cool. PayPal covers the first 45 days, Barclaycard takes over after. I was surprised, but they do. I even recorded the fraud dept lady so I have future proof. I asked twice as I was under the impression it ccard consumer protection was negated when using
PayPal, but my card company says they are happy for me to proceed.

EDIT: I've just seen the thread you pulled that from; the BFL bulk chip thread. I had already given my above advice about calling my CCard company and that people shoild call their card company and do their due diligence. PLibre who you 'took the liberty of quoting from a BFL thread' had already acknowledged and agreed with me about CCard chargebacks. If you want to help do some real research or at least read the rest of the thread you were quoting from.

Just to let you know chargebacks and equal liability are two different things. Equal Liability is section 75 of the consumer credit act and gives you legal protection. Chargebacks are not legally binding, you are relying on the good will of the card issuer so if your claim is refused you cannot take them to court.

Chargebacks only work IF there is money to be reclaimed. Your card issuer will petition the bank of the offending company. If the company has spent the money and gone bust your chargeback will fail. Paypal is not covered by chargebacks. Your CC company MAY petition paypal for a chargeback, they may not. You will have to go to the financial ombudsman to resolve any disputes.

I really wouldn't take anything a call centre employee told me as gospel. They are notoriously bad at knowing the law. She may be fired for misleading you but you won't get your money back.

Under section 75 you have legal protection for up to six years but third party entities are not covered.

BTW if you are trying to mitigate tax by buying through a company I would presume you would need a company credit card. These are not covered by the Consumer credit act. For more info read these

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_different_ways_of_buying_e/consumer_buying_goods_and_services_on_credit_or_by_debit_card_e/consumer_extra_protection_when_you_buy_on_credit_or_debit_card_e/extra_protection_when_you_buy_with_a_credit_card.htm

TD;LR. I would be very wary about using anything other than direct credit card transactions for any money you aren't prepared to take a punt with. If you think you have any meaningful protection any other way, think again.

[klintay]

I am probably in the minority, but I ordered a Mars, for the discount on Jupiter, but also to have the Mars.

An expensive 6 GH machine, but it would have mined BTC for a bit before the difficulty goes through the roof.
It would make ROI before the majority of Avalon chips reach the wild, in all likelihood.

KnC FUD'd themselves today.

Yeah i felt and feel the same. this company was like my one big hope and now i am a little baffled...

The Mars was suppose to build trust and prove that they were capable of designing, producing and delivering on a certain date....which was suppose to be next month guys!! They said on their site, that expected delivery was "2 months" away like 5-6 weeks ago. So they were suppose to start shipping these Mars units in 4 weeks and now we suddenly find out that they are scratching the line altogether??? when were they planning to start the production line process? 1 week before delivery?

[dan99]

Basically by August 2013 you should know the Status of your Order. From their newsletter they seem to be very firm on delivering by September whether by hood or by crook. Also claim to used professional assembly lines in Sweden or Overseas? With only 6 hours working day for 5 days a week, how would they achieved that by September 2013. Life is good in Sweden but production wise that's a different story. I know Volvo and Electrolux don't produce their products in Sweden but mostly overseas because overseas work 24/7 and cheaper labor. Faster and cheaper.

[pizza]

I placed and order but will not be paying for it, as my card only offers a 60 day charge back period. I might wait until end of july and place and order than.

What KNC doesn't understand is they will get some many chargebacks from people ordering and cancelling in 45 days even though they delivery is 90days or so from now, that knc will get blacklisted and they wont even be able to accept paypal or credit cards anymore.

[erschiessen]

They, I guess, figured that everyone thought that Mars was stupid.
I never voiced my opinion, because, well, I was OK with their plan.

Sure, a LTC fpga would rule... and I will order one of them, when they are ready.
LiteMars?
6000 KH/s?
ROI isn't as good as Mars for BTC would be right now.

[dan99]

I am probably in the minority, but I ordered a Mars, for the discount on Jupiter, but also to have the Mars.

An expensive 6 GH machine, but it would have mined BTC for a bit before the difficulty goes through the roof.
It would make ROI before the majority of Avalon chips reach the wild, in all likelihood.

KnC FUD'd themselves today.

Yeah i felt and feel the same. this company was like my one big hope and now i am a little baffled...

The Mars was suppose to build trust and prove that they were capable of designing, producing and delivering on a certain date....which was suppose to be next month guys!! They said on their site, that expected delivery was "2 months" away like 5-6 weeks ago. So they were suppose to start shipping these Mars units in 4 weeks and now we suddenly find out that they are scratching the line altogether??? when were they planning to start the production line process? 1 week before delivery?

I have the feeling that if they were to start the Mars FPGA and the ASIC Jupiter and Saturn together they will likely not able to fulfilled their obligations to deliver the Asic by September. They will loose focus because Asic and FPGA are 2 different thing. But, some of us are definitely not please because we don't get the $2000 discounts. But, I am more sure that they choose the Asic because they were more orders place for these products. Their claim of Asic better than FPGA is just their lame excuses. If don't make it in September 2013 what excuses would they gives? Remember the 50gh/s and 60ghs Asic was scraped for the Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, but at the end they scrap the Mars FPGA. Like I say by August 2013 you will know if they could delivers? June Models and schematic/BOM requirements. July Parts Design & Firm Ware, August Assembly testing and tweaking and shipping in September or collection in September 2013?

[Bitcoinorama]

I am probably in the minority, but I ordered a Mars, for the discount on Jupiter, but also to have the Mars.

An expensive 6 GH machine, but it would have mined BTC for a bit before the difficulty goes through the roof.
It would make ROI before the majority of Avalon chips reach the wild, in all likelihood.

KnC FUD'd themselves today.

Yeah i felt and feel the same. this company was like my one big hope and now i am a little baffled...

The Mars was suppose to build trust and prove that they were capable of designing, producing and delivering on a certain date....which was suppose to be next month guys!! They said on their site, that expected delivery was "2 months" away like 5-6 weeks ago. So they were suppose to start shipping these Mars units in 4 weeks and now we suddenly find out that they are scratching the line altogether??? when were they planning to start the production line process? 1 week before delivery?

I have the feeling that if they were to start the Mars FPGA and the ASIC Jupiter and Saturn together they will likely not able to fulfilled their obligations to deliver the Asic by September. They will loose focus because Asic and FPGA are 2 different thing. But, some of us are definitely not please because we don't get the $2000 discounts. But, I am more sure that they choose the Asic because they were more orders place for these products. Their claim of Asic better than FPGA is just their lame excuses. If don't make it in September 2013 what excuses would they gives? Remember the 50gh/s and 60ghs Asic was scraped for the Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, but at the end they scrap the Mars FPGA. Like I say by August 2013 you will know if they could delivers? June Models and schematic/BOM requirements. July Parts Design & Firm Ware, August Assembly testing and tweaking and shipping in September or collection in September 2013?

I'm not so fussed about mars, they made a working prototype quickly, it's part of the iterative process in finalising the ASIC mask design. The only benefit would have been; can they produce units and deliver en mass promptly? Would selling Mars delay Jupiter?

Besides you were all screaming for Mars production to be dropped over the weekend anyway.

[Biomech]

Ok, I'm not a tech guy, but let me have a go here.

As I understand it, the fpga unit pretty much simulates an asic. It's a good developer platform. So, again if I understand correctly, they pretty much had to develop an fpga prototype in order to properly build their ASIC design. Initially, they were going to go to market with that. But, and I have been following this thread from day 2, they got a LOT of negative feedback about marketing what is essentially last year's gadget when we're all hungry for ASICS. I saw very little positive from any of you regarding the fpga. My own opinion was that it was a sidetrip at best, but I didn't chime in because of my above understanding of the process.

Now the dump it, probably due to overwhelming negative comments, and the same bunch of ya are bitching about that.

I begin to wonder if some of you have a vested interest in seeing them fail!

So BFL left a bad taste in your mouths. I get that. I didn't get burned, and I still get that. Not every company is BFL.

I have seen this company trying very hard to be responsive to a moving target. I don't know that they aren't a scam, but they certainly aren't acting like it.

[retro72]

We bitched about a lot of things that they did naff all about so please don't make out they did this because of community concerns.

[dan99]

We bitched about a lot of things that they did naff all about so please don't make out they did this because of community concerns.

I am sure  it is Not because of our negative or bitching comments, is a lot more to do with more orders for the ASIC than the FPGA and they don't have to give you the discount of $2000 each, let say if you have 500 unit on order and you give the $2000 discount it is $1000,000 Yes that is $1million in Savings, that is a lot of money in this tough economy.

[Biomech]

We bitched about a lot of things that they did naff all about so please don't make out they did this because of community concerns.

I'm not saying the concerns are illegitimate. It just seems that any response they make draws fire, regardless of merit.

Give 'em a minute, willya?

[retro72]

I always thought the mars was a stupid idea but the fact they're dropping it at the eleventh hour doesn't look good at all. An idiot could have told them no one would buy it and they knew it, that's why they added the sweetener of a jump on the jupiter queue.

As for giving them a minute, they can have a million. What they won't have is my money until they deliver something I can touch, smell and hash with. So far they have delivered nothing but hot air yet there are people around here defending them as if their life depended on it.

[seleme]

I don't believe for second they are scammers but it's hard to believe they'll deliver when they said they would. But again if they do, it's a good deal, not as good as Avalon 1 but good.

Didn0t like that "proof" video though, it showed heck all. 2 people standing by some box, guess they camera zoom didn't work  

[retro72]

Didn0t like that "proof" video though, it showed heck all. 2 people standing by some box, guess they camera zoom didn't work 

Yep that video was a joke. Bear in mind they're taking money based on that. I didn't see anything there that I couldn't cobble together from old motherboards and duct tape.

[tinoki]

Didn0t like that "proof" video though, it showed heck all. 2 people standing by some box, guess they camera zoom didn't work 

Yep that video was a joke. Bear in mind they're taking money based on that. I didn't see anything there that I couldn't cobble together from old motherboards and duct tape.

Yea they should at least show some inside videos of the FPGA, the chip, the pcb, ps, cables etc.. may be I could do a better video.

[KS]

We bitched about a lot of things that they did naff all about so please don't make out they did this because of community concerns.

I am sure  it is Not because of our negative or bitching comments, is a lot more to do with more orders for the ASIC than the FPGA and they don't have to give you the discount of $2000 each, let say if you have 500 unit on order and you give the $2000 discount it is $1000,000 Yes that is $1million in Savings, that is a lot of money in this tough economy.

+1

I think they are a greedy, disorganized bunch. Too much $$$$ in front of their eyes, they can't see properly. This is turning into a circus.

[dan99]

Ya, 22 hours from now, sweden time, we hopefully can get a review from the members who went for the open day. After that is D day ..

[bitpop]

Cancelling the fpga bought points in my book