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Question: How many BottleCaps do you own?
None - 86 (39.8%)
1-1k - 29 (13.4%)
1k-10k - 27 (12.5%)
More than 10k - 74 (34.3%)
Total Voters: 216

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Author Topic: Bottlecaps 2.1 UPDATE REQUIRED - HARDFORK JULY 4 2014 to 200% Annual PoS  (Read 335494 times)
murraypaul
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September 01, 2013, 02:58:58 PM
 #1221

Too many panic from nothing. Nothing is "broken" here, everything works as it should work with such incredible settings.

Stats from multipool:
Quote
99,803   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:40 PM
99,801   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:39 PM
99,797   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:38 PM
99,796   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:34 PM
99,795   Orphan   zojcep   Sep 01 3:31 PM
99,793   Orphan   Burksdb   Sep 01 3:30 PM
99,792   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:29 PM
99,789   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:25 PM
99,779   30   jopeto   Sep 01 3:17 PM
99,778   Orphan   barom   Sep 01 3:16 PM
99,774   35   barom   Sep 01 3:12 PM
99,768   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:08 PM
99,767   Orphan   drvdrv   Sep 01 3:04 PM
99,766   Orphan   zojcep   Sep 01 2:53 PM
99,756   Orphan   pidu   Sep 01 2:46 PM
99,751   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 2:45 PM
99,746   Orphan   TomSelleck89   Sep 01 2:44 PM
99,744   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 2:44 PM
99,743   Orphan   Burksdb   Sep 01 2:37 PM
99,739   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 2:32 PM
99,738   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 2:28 PM
99,737   Orphan   omalakas   Sep 01 2:28 PM
99,727   82   jopeto   Sep 01 2:20 PM
99,714   95   TomSelleck89   Sep 01 2:11 PM
99,712   97   Tb75   Sep 01 2:10 PM
99,702   107   Tb75   Sep 01 2:03 PM
99,696   113   jopeto   Sep 01 1:59 PM
99,690   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 1:54 PM
99,689   Orphan   zojcep   Sep 01 1:54 PM
99,686   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 1:51 PM

This is working as expected?
Why would any miners point hashrate at this coin if it is just being wasted?


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Balthazar
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September 01, 2013, 03:04:28 PM
 #1222

This is working as expected?
Yes. This is the normal behavior for the system with 1 min stake target spacing.

Why would any miners point hashrate at this coin if it is just being wasted?
They are free to do what they want, network will continue operation even without them. But it's better to increase target spacing, of course.

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Jazkal
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September 01, 2013, 03:07:12 PM
 #1223

Why would any miners point hashrate at this coin if it is just being wasted?
It sounds like the devs don't care if miners are going to get paid to secure the network, they are happy that the entire network is 100% PoS.
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September 01, 2013, 03:08:36 PM
 #1224

Yes PoS moves the network as well. Give it a whirl blocks moving along fine.
Bottlecaps is a MAJOR BROKEN coin right now. Thankfully we aren't seeing forks, but there are ZERO mined blocks being found. You should tell all miners to stop mining, as they are wasting the power used, because they will not be paid for the work done, and they aren't helping in securing the network. With v1.5, you now have a coin that is 100% being powered by PoS, no need for miners anymore.
You didn't read any posts by mullick or Balthazar.
Please read those before making more incorrect statements. The coin is working as itended.

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Balthazar
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September 01, 2013, 03:09:51 PM
 #1225

It sounds like the devs don't care if miners are going to get paid to secure the network, they are happy that the entire network is 100% PoS.
PoW doesn't provide any additional security in CAP. In NovaCoin it does, but not in CAP. PoW is just an initial coins creation tool here, and nothing more. There will be no PoW miners in the future, PoS generation will throw them away. It's only a matter of time.

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BitJohn
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September 01, 2013, 03:11:04 PM
 #1226

I think the Devs have explained that once the Stake is paid out then orphans will dissipate. Proof of Stake is a good thing mine the coins and hold them and your still getting paid. All the guys who have been mining the past 3 weeks are getting their stake (finally) that is by design.
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September 01, 2013, 03:33:30 PM
 #1227

Can anybody tell me what is POS annual interest rate for CAP? I can't find this info anywhere.
z0rr0
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September 01, 2013, 04:10:52 PM
 #1228

Also, what is the time target for "activation" of POS generation in CAPs?
In NVC it is 30-90 days, and what about CAPs?

It is strange, that there is no such info on the 1st page of this topic.
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September 01, 2013, 05:11:44 PM
 #1229

Yes PoS moves the network as well. Give it a whirl blocks moving along fine.
Bottlecaps is a MAJOR BROKEN coin right now. Thankfully we aren't seeing forks, but there are ZERO mined blocks being found. You should tell all miners to stop mining, as they are wasting the power used, because they will not be paid for the work done, and they aren't helping in securing the network. With v1.5, you now have a coin that is 100% being powered by PoS, no need for miners anymore.

The coin is NOT majorly broken but is still "getting back on track" and to say there are no valid blocks being mined and that all hash power is completely being wasted is absurd! Yes there are a high rate of orphans but that is due to the pos backlog and blocks are being found at 2-4 a minute and not the usual 1 a min...what was 75% orphan or waste is not the case now...orphans still high yes but valid blocks are giving about 60-75% of estimate payouts...so getting better...and it will improve more very soon...
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September 01, 2013, 05:28:09 PM
 #1230

It sounds like the devs don't care if miners are going to get paid to secure the network, they are happy that the entire network is 100% PoS.
PoW doesn't provide any additional security in CAP. In NovaCoin it does, but not in CAP. PoW is just an initial coins creation tool here, and nothing more. There will be no PoW miners in the future, PoS generation will throw them away. It's only a matter of time before this happens.

This is absolutely correct. As with almost all new POS /POW NVC clones. Im working on the changes to correct this and once done the network will benefit from POS unlike right now. But in the short term this should clear up on its own.

You, Sunny King an YukonCoinelius have been a great help and I hope to continue working with YukonCoinelius to make further changes necessary to get POS into the role it is supposed to fill. Securing the network not orphaning POW blocks in high numbers.

CAPS was made by the original developer not knowing how the 1 minute stake spacing would ne handled by the network. When I took over I knew it was no good but thankfully the network could not generate stake fast enough with requirements. Most of these other NVC clones are actually caps forks made before the original had time to flourish and show its weaknesses. Hopefully my work will be used by the other developers of these to strengthen their network and make POS actually secure the network

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September 01, 2013, 05:35:59 PM
 #1231

Actually its more like 40-60% true efficiency at moment...but is improving...
How long do you think it will take for all the old POS blocks to catch up and everything to return to normal like u mentioned?
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September 01, 2013, 06:12:46 PM
 #1232

It all depends really. Im guessing cryptsy for instance is generating hundreds of POS blocks all for little to 0 value. Ill try to speak to vern and see what he says

If your generating stake right now I would advise you move your coins in larger amounts and wait the 30 days again. At that point rewards will no longer be rounded to 0 and you will receive your appropriate reward but if you don't its not going to kill anything.
murraypaul
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September 01, 2013, 06:16:45 PM
 #1233

The coin is NOT majorly broken but is still "getting back on track" and to say there are no valid blocks being mined and that all hash power is completely being wasted is absurd! Yes there are a high rate of orphans but that is due to the pos backlog and blocks are being found at 2-4 a minute and not the usual 1 a min...what was 75% orphan or waste is not the case now

The figures I posted from multipool show that yes, there is still more than a 75% orphan rate.
They recently hit 18 orphaned blocks in a row.

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September 01, 2013, 07:28:05 PM
 #1234

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September 01, 2013, 07:43:12 PM
 #1235

Cheap CAP @Cryptsy, buy buy buy  Smiley Wink

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September 01, 2013, 08:31:13 PM
 #1236

Hey CAP fans go vote for us on cryptocoinpayments

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285619.20

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September 01, 2013, 09:16:31 PM
 #1237

In relation to orphan-losses...

Like I stated a few dozen posts back...

1: The POW diff is real low. Thus, it is easy to find blocks. (Due to orphans killing valids and POS not counting towards diff-adjustments.)
2: There are lots of POS being created, because POS is behind, due to us limiting POS for the last few days.
3: POW has to "reset" work, when a POS or a POW block is found. (That can be changed with two chains, or by forcing the POW to use only POW-hashes.)

Thus, the final result is a cluster-fuck of orphans and "rejects" and work-resetting, causing the rough patch. It will balance-out in time, but it will never be as idea as when it was only POW mining, because the POS is uber-low difficulty and mixing/stacking with the POW chain.

This is a flaw of design of POS, not a flaw in this coin. Other coins, when they were this low, had similar issues. The only resolution is to wait for the hiccup to turn into a burp of relief, or simply recalculate your VALUE of the coins you are mining. (You need to get more money for your fewer coins, so demand more. Just like you would do with 0-orphans and high-diffs that result in the same low volume of coins rewarded.)
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September 01, 2013, 09:19:44 PM
 #1238

This is a flaw of design of POS, not a flaw in this coin.

Hmm. Surely it is a flaw in this coin, caused by its method of using PoS and PoW together?
If it has happened before for other coins, and not been corrected, that seems like a flaw.

[Update: 23 of the last 30 blocks found on multipool have been orphaned]

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September 01, 2013, 09:31:16 PM
 #1239

...

3: POW has to "reset" work, when a POS or a POW block is found. (That can be changed with two chains, or by forcing the POW to use only POW-hashes.)

...
This is a flaw of design of POS, not a flaw in this coin.
This is not a flaw. You're just not so well understood why it was done in this way. Proof-of-Work is only a temporary emission tool here, it's not a protection mechanism. Proof-of-Work should move away as soon as enough coins will be created. It's a Proof-of-Stake design, Proof-of-Stake is not an addition for Proof-of-Work, it's the replacement. If you wish a Proof-of-Work currency, then use Proof-of-Work currency.

P.S. By the way, CAP contains a real flaw. There is no possibility to create more coins if a critical part of stake will be accidentally destroyed. Such PoW reward function is unacceptable for this design, hard-coded emission limit should be removed.

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September 01, 2013, 09:47:34 PM
 #1240

Looking forward to continue mining this coin and very glad to see the forking issue has been dealt with. Obviously the multiple POS blocks will be reduced overtime and were to be expected (since most individuals have not been POS minting for weeks, the difficulty dropped as a result and coin age continued increasing). The nice thing is we have a group willing to put in the hours required to deal with any issues encountered and willing to ask for help from the community when needed.
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