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Question: How many BottleCaps do you own?
None - 86 (39.8%)
1-1k - 29 (13.4%)
1k-10k - 27 (12.5%)
More than 10k - 74 (34.3%)
Total Voters: 216

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Author Topic: Bottlecaps 2.1 UPDATE REQUIRED - HARDFORK JULY 4 2014 to 200% Annual PoS  (Read 336815 times)
Tranz
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May 15, 2014, 12:24:09 AM
 #1701

These are my thoughts:

1. keep the hard cap (this is VERY IMPORTANT)




There is no hard cap. It is an illusion.

HBN: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303749.0 hobonickels.info
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tokyoghetto
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May 15, 2014, 12:41:08 AM
 #1702

These are my thoughts:

1. keep the hard cap (this is VERY IMPORTANT)




There is no hard cap. It is an illusion.

ahh ok. I understand.
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May 15, 2014, 01:54:08 AM
 #1703

My biggest concern: Coin creation rate vs. Market Demand      example-Pennies/CENT

If it stakes too high or too often people are going to make regular profit takings and drive the value down in a tragic "CENT death-spiral."  Unfortunately once the average alt-holder makes ROI they won't care if the coin holds value, they'll just keep dumping. 

To be fair, I did keep a few million CENT for the fond memories Smiley
Tranz
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May 15, 2014, 02:45:48 AM
 #1704

My biggest concern: Coin creation rate vs. Market Demand      example-Pennies/CENT

If it stakes too high or too often people are going to make regular profit takings and drive the value down in a tragic "CENT death-spiral."  Unfortunately once the average alt-holder makes ROI they won't care if the coin holds value, they'll just keep dumping.  

To be fair, I did keep a few million CENT for the fond memories Smiley


Agreed! Let's see if the math plays out.

Currently at 3,000,000 coins, if 1/2 of those stake at 250% we would double in 1 year.
Year 2 I think we would be closer adding 5,000,000 For 11-12MM total.
Year 3+ I think the PoS diff begins to take effect and we only add 6-7MM in that year.
Year 5+ I think we are up to 25 Million and diff has taken PoS down to 100% or lower.


We can also tighten the diff adjustment so PoS goes down faster.

We need a good number of coins distributed evenly, and a fast velocity of money.  I think higher inerest does these things, rather then cause an inflation spiral.  But as TG says, this is an experiment, so lets see.



HBN: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303749.0 hobonickels.info
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cryptmebro
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May 15, 2014, 02:50:40 AM
 #1705

Anyone have the latest (flound's) exe?
flound1129
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May 15, 2014, 03:59:36 AM
 #1706

Syncing worked for me after I got a good list of addnodes. What type of networking problems are happening and is a checkpoint server really necessary?  I say this because in my opinion peer to peer is safer than centralized... In theory.

Given the number of forks on the network in the past 2 weeks I think it's safe to say that yes, a checkpoint server is necessary.

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goodhopes
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May 15, 2014, 05:33:24 AM
 #1707

My biggest concern: Coin creation rate vs. Market Demand      example-Pennies/CENT

If it stakes too high or too often people are going to make regular profit takings and drive the value down in a tragic "CENT death-spiral."  Unfortunately once the average alt-holder makes ROI they won't care if the coin holds value, they'll just keep dumping.  

To be fair, I did keep a few million CENT for the fond memories Smiley


In my Opinion, a high stake would lead to a greater price stability, if the investors can count on future support of the coin (mainly acive Dev and community and services). There are more positive examples (HBN, PHS, TEK, NVC...even DMD if its going to work one of these days) than negative.
Therefore I would vote for a stake somewhere in the 50% - 100% range. But I would prefer to leave the stake constant only reduced by increasing diff, because there are quite some POS coins now and in the future, and most investors don't have the time, or want to have the hassle with checking, which is the right moment to invest/stake.
Better when it is known that CAPs are a coin with a more constant high stake. I would prefer to start with the higher stake and leave it as it is to remain long term attractiveness, otherwise investors will leave if higher stake coins advance in the future. Cap supply in terms of total quantity will not be so important, because it will always compete with other coins, which also increase the overall cryptocoin money supply.
Tommo_Aus
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May 15, 2014, 06:27:59 AM
 #1708

I'm trying to load the latest wallet (1.5.2) from block 0 but can't get any connections, I have the addnodes from the first post but no luck. Does anyone have a working node?

Tompool - http://tompool.org - a 2% fee SHA256/Scrypt/BURST/Groestl multipool supporting ANC, ASC, DGC, EZC, FLO, GLD, GME, MNC, RYC, TGC, TRC, XNC, ZET & more
tokyoghetto
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May 15, 2014, 11:37:53 AM
 #1709

my vote is still in for PoS interest higher than 100%. Just like Tranz suggested. If you make CAP "like" HBN or PHS then what is the incentive of buying CAPS over those coins?. People need to dare to be different. I don't suggest anything crazy like what CENT was but lets try something new and push the limit a bit. NVCS will protect the coin from out of control inflation because as more people stake, the interest rate will drop. 

If we go with tranz's suggestion, we will only be at 25 million coins after 5 years. That's a long time to reach 25 million and it still puts us at a lower coin count than coins that exist today.
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May 15, 2014, 11:48:39 AM
 #1710

My biggest concern: Coin creation rate vs. Market Demand      example-Pennies/CENT

If it stakes too high or too often people are going to make regular profit takings and drive the value down in a tragic "CENT death-spiral."  Unfortunately once the average alt-holder makes ROI they won't care if the coin holds value, they'll just keep dumping. 

To be fair, I did keep a few million CENT for the fond memories Smiley


the whole point of investing is to ROI. I don't think people invest to lose money. Supply and demand will determine a coins value, that is price discovery.

I have already sold large blocks of HBN at around 30000 satoshi and the market has held. Price will find natural support and rebound from it. For every seller there is a buyer and you can't expect people to just buy CAP, PoS mine and never sell. Markets only work if there is buying and selling.

Also the stake time prevents people from what you call "dumping". Look at TEKcoin. People would think that TEK would just dump into nothing but wait, if you want to earn that 40% interest you need to hold for 30+ days.

I understand peoples concern about CENT but that was an outlier example. The inflation was out of control due to lack due diligence with the code. We are older and wiser now and I think that with strong developers a situation like CENT can and will be avoided. 
scryptographer
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May 15, 2014, 11:54:34 AM
 #1711

I'm trying to load the latest wallet (1.5.2) from block 0 but can't get any connections, I have the addnodes from the first post but no luck. Does anyone have a working node?

Use the nodelist from this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241445.msg6411172#msg6411172
Worked great for me

Nthused
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May 15, 2014, 11:57:57 AM
 #1712

So much commitment for a Fallout Crypto, I like Smiley

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May 15, 2014, 01:08:31 PM
 #1713

Tranz everything You touch is changing into pure gold...Long life Bottlecaps;)
tokyoghetto
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May 15, 2014, 02:12:49 PM
 #1714

Tranz everything You touch is changing into pure gold...Long life Bottlecaps;)

CAP already grew an erection over @ cryptsy. Up 100% in 24 hours just on news of new development.

Wish I bought more @ 2000 satoshi.
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May 15, 2014, 02:37:36 PM
 #1715

Tranz everything You touch is changing into pure gold...Long life Bottlecaps;)

CAP already grew an erection over @ cryptsy. Up 100% in 24 hours just on news of new development.

Wish I bought more @ 2000 satoshi.

When was the last time CAP had a 24 hour volume of over 20 BTC??? Anyone thinking this is a bad idea needs to look at the market reaction and see that the price and volume skyrocketed just on the mention of upping the PoS.

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May 15, 2014, 02:53:01 PM
 #1716

Tranz everything You touch is changing into pure gold...Long life Bottlecaps;)

CAP already grew an erection over @ cryptsy. Up 100% in 24 hours just on news of new development.

Wish I bought more @ 2000 satoshi.

Wish I had more BTC to invest, fml.
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May 15, 2014, 03:19:09 PM
 #1717

Tranz everything You touch is changing into pure gold...Long life Bottlecaps;)

CAP already grew an erection over @ cryptsy. Up 100% in 24 hours just on news of new development.

Wish I bought more @ 2000 satoshi.

Wish I had more BTC to invest, fml.

Well think of it this way... if you have 100 CAP now, then in a month after staking you will have 101 CAP  Tongue

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May 15, 2014, 03:32:58 PM
 #1718

After the wallet is officially released the PoS will increase until we hit the Max of 200%
Day 1 - 30 Max PoS stays at 1%
Day 31- 60 Max Pos increases to 50%
Day 61 - 90 Max Pos increases to 100%
Day 91 - 120 Max PoS increases to 150%
Day 120+ Max PoS will be 200%

A coin with 200% inflation is a good idea?
Why would anyone ever actually spend any CAP? With this system in place, they would be stupid to, rather than just sit on it and earn more.
So it becomes a network of people sitting on large piles of CAP, with massive inflation, and no actual use.
So why would it have any value? It wouldn't be used for anything, and more and more coins would be constantly being generated.

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May 15, 2014, 03:48:34 PM
 #1719

After the wallet is officially released the PoS will increase until we hit the Max of 200%
Day 1 - 30 Max PoS stays at 1%
Day 31- 60 Max Pos increases to 50%
Day 61 - 90 Max Pos increases to 100%
Day 91 - 120 Max PoS increases to 150%
Day 120+ Max PoS will be 200%

A coin with 200% inflation is a good idea?
Why would anyone ever actually spend any CAP? With this system in place, they would be stupid to, rather than just sit on it and earn more.
So it becomes a network of people sitting on large piles of CAP, with massive inflation, and no actual use.
So why would it have any value? It wouldn't be used for anything, and more and more coins would be constantly being generated.

You would think that, but if you do some research into the existing comparable PoS coins you would find the answer is much different than you think. And it is either something like this... or CAP continues to waste away.  CAP needs to be fun, like it was made to be.  For example TEK has 500% annual PoS, but is actually experiencing pretty rapid price deflation.

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May 15, 2014, 04:05:52 PM
 #1720

These are my thoughts:

1. keep the hard cap (this is VERY IMPORTANT)

There is no hard cap. It is an illusion.

It is only possible with fixed rewards for both PoW and PoS + no fee destruction. Something like Orbitcoin does now.

"If you've got a problem and have to spread some coins to make it go away, you've got no problem. You've got an expence." ~ Phoenixcoin (PXC) and Orbitcoin (ORB) and Halcyon (HAL)
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