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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 865690 times)
tacotime
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October 29, 2013, 12:35:21 AM
 #2021

Okay, HashFast has gotten back to me.  They are telling me that they are paying me with discounts on hardware for providing customer support, and they've ask me to forward some official responses to issues that have been coming up.  I'm pretty sick with a cold, but I'll do my best.

I've changed my profile information so that everyone knows what my role is with the company.

1. On prices for the first batch: First batch comes with MPP and will be received before all the second batch is, so the first batch is expected to make greater returns in BTC than the second batch products with both the original item and the MPP (their MPP will ship first, too).

2. TSMC: Everything is on schedule.  Everything else is under NDA.  Ask specific questions and I'll see if I can get them answered, given that they don't violate the NDA.

3. Hashfast states that Dec 31 was always the agreed to date in the terms of sale, and that this will be honoured.

4. Pictures are forthcoming and apparently need to be approved by CIARA and/or TSMC and/or whoever else is involved, and this is the reason there aren't many yet.

You give me questions, I give them questions and try to be the go-between and get your answers.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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October 29, 2013, 12:51:51 AM
 #2022

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1. On prices for the first batch: First batch comes with MPP and will be received before all the second batch is, so the first batch is expected to make greater returns in BTC than the second batch products with both the original item and the MPP (their MPP will ship first, too).
Everyone agrees with me that this is nonsense, right? Because we measure % return, not absolute return over hashrate, right?

Quote
2. TSMC: Everything is on schedule.  Everything else is under NDA.  Ask specific questions and I'll see if I can get them answered, given that they don't violate the NDA.
Can you show us the NDA? How funny would it have been if that NDA didn't covered any of the questions that where asked? Because i would bet a lot over that. Btw, do you mind to define "on schedule"?

Quote
3. Hashfast states that Dec 31 was always the agreed to date in the terms of sale, and that this will be honoured.
The shipping date was at the end of this month, but yes, let's change the reality to our needs. That date will be honoured? What about every date that was promised until now? Like, will the mid november date be honoured? No, right? When will you start to prepare us for that?

Quote
4. Pictures are forthcoming and apparently need to be approved by CIARA and/or TSMC and/or whoever else is involved, and this is the reason there aren't many yet.
How is exactly CIARA or TSMC involved with the PCB?
What a great idea to hide behind the fact that you never had a PCB ready for the end of this month.

Also, you are now publicly stating that the end of this year was always the promised shipping date while that date wasn't even present for the first half of batch 1 customers.
How can one even...? Why am i losing this time arguing with walls in a forum?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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October 29, 2013, 12:57:22 AM
 #2023

Okay, HashFast has gotten back to me.  They are telling me that they are paying me with discounts on hardware for providing customer support, and they've ask me to forward some official responses to issues that have been coming up.  I'm pretty sick with a cold, but I'll do my best.

I've changed my profile information so that everyone knows what my role is with the company.

1. On prices for the first batch: First batch comes with MPP and will be received before all the second batch is, so the first batch is expected to make greater returns in BTC than the second batch products with both the original item and the MPP (their MPP will ship first, too).

2. TSMC: Everything is on schedule.  Everything else is under NDA.  Ask specific questions and I'll see if I can get them answered, given that they don't violate the NDA.

3. Hashfast states that Dec 31 was always the agreed to date in the terms of sale, and that this will be honoured.

4. Pictures are forthcoming and apparently need to be approved by CIARA and/or TSMC and/or whoever else is involved, and this is the reason there aren't many yet.

You give me questions, I give them questions and try to be the go-between and get your answers.


congrats on getting the job,

So you haven't answered anything we didn't already know. unless your saying batch 1 baby jets will ship with the MPP.

Heres a question you can ask them. Can i have the CEO of hash fast's home address its not under NDA.
That way when the people of batch 1 including myself get screwed out of ROI we can steal all his money so he knows what it feels like

MT GOX, WE.exchange (WE.Scam), BFL (Brutally Fkn Last), Hashfast (ScamFast), IceDrill (Licedrill),
No wonder the governments don't like Bitcoin with all these parasites
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October 29, 2013, 01:02:49 AM
 #2024

Okay, HashFast has gotten back to me.  They are telling me that they are paying me with discounts on hardware for providing customer support, and they've ask me to forward some official responses to issues that have been coming up.  I'm pretty sick with a cold, but I'll do my best.

I've changed my profile information so that everyone knows what my role is with the company.

1. On prices for the first batch: First batch comes with MPP and will be received before all the second batch is, so the first batch is expected to make greater returns in BTC than the second batch products with both the original item and the MPP (their MPP will ship first, too).

2. TSMC: Everything is on schedule.  Everything else is under NDA.  Ask specific questions and I'll see if I can get them answered, given that they don't violate the NDA.

3. Hashfast states that Dec 31 was always the agreed to date in the terms of sale, and that this will be honoured.

4. Pictures are forthcoming and apparently need to be approved by CIARA and/or TSMC and/or whoever else is involved, and this is the reason there aren't many yet.

You give me questions, I give them questions and try to be the go-between and get your answers.

Thank you for taking on this public risk. I hope that HF project works out.
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October 29, 2013, 01:04:55 AM
 #2025

Quote
1. On prices for the first batch: First batch comes with MPP and will be received before all the second batch is, so the first batch is expected to make greater returns in BTC than the second batch products with both the original item and the MPP (their MPP will ship first, too).
Everyone agrees with me that this is nonsense, right? Because we measure % return, not absolute return over hashrate, right?
I agree that the MPP is at least a little vague in terms of how they decide to give you up to 400% of the hash rate that you ordered (e.g., how they forecast what you'll mine in BTC, and how much hardware you need to break even).  I'll ask them.  They did state the quantity you get in hash rate is dependent on the network hash rate at the time the product shipped, so if it's shipped after Nov 1st, you get proportionally more hash rate (up to 400%).

Quote
Quote
2. TSMC: Everything is on schedule.  Everything else is under NDA.  Ask specific questions and I'll see if I can get them answered, given that they don't violate the NDA.
Can you show us the NDA? Anyway how can everything be on schedule since that you are late with the chips that are being manufactured at TSMC?
I can ask them.  They said  "everything is on time with regards to what we are telling the customers," and I assume they are referring to the news about the substrate delay.

Quote
Quote
3. Hashfast states that Dec 31 was always the agreed to date in the terms of sale, and that this will be honoured.
The shipping date was at the end of this month, but yes, let's change the reality to our needs. That date will be honoured? What about every date that was promised until now? Like, will the mid november date be honoured? No, right? When will you start to prepare us for that?
They say they'll issue refunds at that time (January 1st, 2014) if they fail to deliver a product.  That was it, and I won't make assumptions beyond that.  If this falls through, I'm down $5k USD as well, so I'm in the same boat as you.

Quote
Quote
4. Pictures are forthcoming and apparently need to be approved by CIARA and/or TSMC and/or whoever else is involved, and this is the reason there aren't many yet.
How is exactly CIARA or TSMC involved with the PCB?
What a great idea to hide behind the fact that you never had a PCB ready for the end of this month.

They didn't name names, but I assumed they were responsible (mea culpa if they're unrelated).  I can ask if they have the PCB designed and what stage it's in.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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October 29, 2013, 01:06:44 AM
 #2026

Also, you are now publicly stating that the end of this year was always the promised shipping date while that date wasn't even present for the first half of batch 1 customers.
How can one even...? Why am i losing this time arguing with walls in a forum?

They told me this:
Quote
- This is the explicit provision given in the order confirmation:
         "All of the 550 Baby Jet units from HashFast's first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by
December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date,
then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer's request and HashFast will refund the payment for the units
that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for
HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs."

I didn't save my order confirmation page, so I have no idea if it was there or not, but that's what they're telling me.  If someone has a saved copy, please post it and I'll ask them about it.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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October 29, 2013, 01:08:33 AM
 #2027

congrats on getting the job,

So you haven't answered anything we didn't already know. unless your saying batch 1 baby jets will ship with the MPP.
They're saying it'll ship within 90 days of the ship date of the hardware, and the quantity of hardware you get is dependent on the network hash rate at the time of shipping up to 400% of your original order

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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October 29, 2013, 01:12:09 AM
 #2028

also tl;dr, they have a pile of my money too at this point, so I'm trying to figure out what I can.

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XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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October 29, 2013, 01:12:31 AM
 #2029

Some questions.

1) When does Hashfast anticipate first shipment of batch 1?

2) When Hashfast begins shipping Batch 1 how long do they anticipate it will take to ship all Batch 1 orders?

3) Should customers be concerned they indicated at 2 week delay but now seem to be pushing the "31 DEC" date heavily?

4) When does Hashfast anticipate first shipment of batch 2?  If date can't be provided aproximate time after #2 will work.

2) When Hashfast begins shipping Batch 2 how long do they anticipate it will take to ship all Batch 2 orders?
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October 29, 2013, 01:16:43 AM
 #2030

I didn't save my order confirmation page, so I have no idea if it was there or not, but that's what they're telling me.  If someone has a saved copy, please post it and I'll ask them about it.
They aren't referring to your order confirmation page, but to the order invoice they sent you. The one with one page of invoice and 5 pages of contracts.

Quote
I can ask them.  They said  "everything is on time with regards to what we are telling the customers," and I assume they are referring to the news about the substrate delay.
This one could be a really costly assumption. I will assume that they where vague on purpose.

Quote
I can ask if they have the PCB designed and what stage it's in.
If they don't have the PCB designed and manufactured already (a thing that they don't have), that would have been a proof that they would have been lied to us since the beginning. They already promised us a pic of the PBC, but they have yet to show that.

also tl;dr, they have a pile of my money too at this point, so I'm trying to figure out what I can.
Well, no offense intended, but the pile of my money they have is bigger, and i'm not sure i would want to use the discounts they are giving you if i where you.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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October 29, 2013, 01:19:18 AM
 #2031

3) Should customers be concerned they indicated at 2 week delay but now seem to be pushing the "31 DEC" date heavily?
Either they delivery before the 31 of Dec or they are bankrupted, there are not many other possibilities from their point of view...

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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October 29, 2013, 01:23:00 AM
 #2032

Can someone explain to me honestly if it is better to buy Batch one bj backorder with MMP or the batch 2 seirra for 2k more without MPP.

Thank You for your time.

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October 29, 2013, 01:30:29 AM
 #2033

Can someone explain to me honestly if it is better to buy Batch one bj backorder with MMP or the batch 2 seirra for the same price without MPP.

I am looking to invest all the money i have in mining,

Thank You for your time.

Well there isn't enough info available to know for sure,  but Batch 1 has been delayed (at least until 15 Nov) and nothing has been said about Batch 2.   If due to Batch 1 delay, Batch 2 ships at the same time or right after Batch 1 then getting a Sierra is far superior.  On the other hand if Batch 1 delay means a 2-3 week delay for Batch 2 then it is looking pretty grim.  I will point out that more than one batch 1 customers have tried to have their orders upgraded to Batch 2 Sierras (paying the difference in cost) given the delay.   Also a lot depends on how quickly it takes for a batch to be shipped.   If the first Batch 1 ships on day X and the last one ships on day x+5 that is great (as you will be at the end) on the other hand if the last unit doesn't ship until X+30 well that is not as good.

Short version:  Nobody other than HF can tell you for sure and even then there may be factors beyond their control.   If I was forced to pick one over the other right this second (based on the limited infor available) ... I would pick Batch 2 Sierra.  Please understand that is just the better "bet" given limited information it may turn out that Batch 1 is better.  Be sure to use a mining calculator before making any purchase from ANY vendor.
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October 29, 2013, 01:37:33 AM
 #2034

Thanks for the information. Will take everything you said into account.

stacking coin
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October 29, 2013, 01:55:42 AM
 #2035



Please note:  I dont think anyone here would disagree that we would have made more 'money' had we just used the investment to purchase bitcoins instead of hardware!


that being said...  It is one hell of a ride!

1jimbitm6hAKTjKX4qurCNQubbnk2YsFw
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October 29, 2013, 02:05:08 AM
 #2036

They told me this:

Quote
- This is the explicit provision given in the order confirmation:
         "All of the 550 Baby Jet units from HashFast's first production batch are guaranteed for delivery by
December 31, 2013. If Buyer ordered one or more units of such Baby Jets, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date,
then Buyer may cancel the undelivered portion of the order at Buyer's request and HashFast will refund the payment for the units
that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled. This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for
HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date, and Buyer must cancel the order by January 15, 2014 to avail itself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs."

I didn't save my order confirmation page, so I have no idea if it was there or not, but that's what they're telling me.  If someone has a saved copy, please post it and I'll ask them about it.

So, what I got when I ordered on Aug 8 was:

  • 1) An Order Receipt from HashFast titled 'Your Hash Fast order receipt from August 9, 2013' (It has the text 'Hash Fash' at the bottom)
  • 2) An invoice and receipt from BitPay with Hash Fast on the header. 'Order has been paid in full'.

Of course I had to agree to the Terms of Sale and I saved a copy here: http://pastebin.com/EfS9vmRf

This I thought concluded the Sale. Note that the Dec 31st date was not present anywhere just the late October shipping date.

However, on August 15 (A week later) I got an additional email titled 'HashFast Order Confirmation' that did contain the new legal boilerplate:

Quote
This Order Confirmation and the sales of all product, licenses and services by HashFast are be governed by the HashFast terms and conditions.

Your order is expected to ship between October 20 and October 30, 2013.  Physical delivery of your order will take place within days, depending on the shipment method selected.  HashFast guarantees that all "Baby Jet" units from our first production batch will be delivered by December 31, 2013.  If Buyer ordered one or more Baby Jet units, and HashFast does not deliver such units by that date, then Buyer may at his or her discretion, cancel the undelivered portion and HashFast will issue a full refund the payment for the units that Buyer purchased but did not receive and cancelled.   This cancellation and refund is Buyer's sole and exclusive remedy for HashFast failing to deliver by the December 31, 2013 guaranteed delivery date.  Buyer must cancel the order and request a refund by January 15, 2014 to avail him or herself of this remedy. Buyer to pay all taxes, duties and shipping costs on units delivered.

Clearly between Aug 8 and 15 they decided to update the ToS with the Dec 31st date and send out a new 'Order Confirmation' for this purpose.

Personally, I find this a bit dishonest as now we are talking semantics like 'what is the difference between an order receipt and an order confirmation?' or which ToS applies: The one the user agreed to at the time of sale, or the updated terms in the order confirmation that was sent only after they took the customers money?
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October 29, 2013, 02:29:46 AM
 #2037

Ninja, it looks like there wasn't a clause stating a refund policy in the latter posted policy.  Maybe this was a clarification.

Mining Equipment Comparison Table                               Bitcoin News                             1nKAizrhGzvLfWBVfX8fGLAs6kxKV7aXM
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October 29, 2013, 02:44:21 AM
 #2038

Ninja, it looks like there wasn't a clause stating a refund policy in the latter posted policy.  Maybe this was a clarification.

Well there was this:

Quote
Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only, and Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date.

A customer should be able to get a full refund if the delivery is not made within a reasonable time frame after the stated delivery date (Oct 20-30 at the time of my purchase). The question is what is a reasonable time frame for this type of product? Clearly since the majority of the profit is made in the first few weeks after purchase after which it quickly degenerates into a large and heavy paperweight I'd say reasonably short (a few weeks).

As integrity42 pointed out in the other HashFast thread, a 400GH/s miner is now expected to only mine ~15.3 BTC in a 1 year period (Starting Nov 23, assuming a 4 week delivery delay)

I paid 59 BTC for my BJ so I feel like a proper fool now... Part of it my own fault of course (I did not expect network growth to go double exponential). But HF was only able to demand this kind of premium from Batch 1 customers because of the listed delivery dates of Oct 20-30. Time *is* Money. If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.
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October 29, 2013, 02:52:49 AM
 #2039

Unless the chips are being packaged by TMSC, they shouldn't be on schedule, the wafers should be out of TMSC's hands; bumped, diced and just sitting there waiting for the substrate.
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October 29, 2013, 03:05:37 AM
 #2040

I paid 59 BTC for my BJ so I feel like a proper fool now... Part of it my own fault of course (I did not expect network growth to go double exponential). But HF was only able to demand this kind of premium from Batch 1 customers because of the listed delivery dates of Oct 20-30. Time *is* Money. If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.

Nothing lost.  You can (and should) ask for a refund.
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