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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 865651 times)
jjiimm_64
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October 29, 2013, 03:08:24 AM
 #2041


 If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.


actually, i think most were sold after them adding this provision

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ninjarobot
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October 29, 2013, 03:40:54 AM
 #2042


 If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.


actually, i think most were sold after them adding this provision

True, but I'm talking about the Dec 31st date on the product page, not the terms and conditions page (since most people don't bother to read this)
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October 29, 2013, 03:42:31 AM
 #2043

Where are:

* Batch 2 (and beyond) order chains
* a live schedule that will allow you to follow the progress of the rigs, and better anticipate when yours will arrive. We’ll be updating the schedule in real time as we get the latest information.

tips: 1amerApYUVjsKSuVUtfjxaoi7QXG7Zwao
DPoS
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October 29, 2013, 03:50:15 AM
 #2044

How are you going to get a refund anyway since they only took bitcoins and wire transfers?

They have no incentive to ship early.. you best find out if Ciara is shipping direct to customers or back to them.. if back to them, then they will mine until last week of Dec

You can ask for MPP in April



~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
tacotime
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October 29, 2013, 04:58:10 AM
 #2045

How are you going to get a refund anyway since they only took bitcoins and wire transfers?

They have no incentive to ship early.. you best find out if Ciara is shipping direct to customers or back to them.. if back to them, then they will mine until last week of Dec

You can ask for MPP in April

Ciara is shipping direct to customers

Quote
But this isn’t just about power. We’ll be shipping our Baby Jets directly from CIARA’s massive 576,000 sq. ft. headquarters in Montreal. There are few manufacturers in the world that have the incredible capacity to build and ship mining rigs with the speed CIARA does. What’s more, CIARA is a C-TPAT registered company, which means no delays at US or Canadian customs.

This means I should be one of the first people to get one, when it's shipped.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
amer
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October 29, 2013, 06:23:58 AM
 #2046

Can someone fix my logic here, what is the point of MPP?

Current - BTC @ 195 - 10.26 BTC
Assuming 850M difficulty at receipt and 30% increases each adjustment = no MPP, break even within 90 days.
Assuming 1070M difficulty at receipt and 40% increases each adjustment = MPP must kick in because day 90 you will have 7.4BTC.

Per HF MPP rules, it would have taken an additional 150GH to hit the 10.26BTC we started with. They double it to 300GH, round up to the nearest whole GN (1 chip @ 400). Now you have 400GH to put on your system 90 days after you received it. In this crazy town of 40% constant difficulty increases, that would yield you an additional 0.2 BTC, which is not worth the extra MPP fee.

If difficulty remains under the 40% curve, MPP won't kick in.
If difficulty remains over the 40% curve, MPP will kick in but won't be worth it.

Are people who are buying MPP imagining that it will be extremely difficult to mine for the first 90 days, so that MPP will kick in, but then it will stop so that the extra capacity can give make MPP worth it? Can someone who thinks MPP is a great idea please share their assumptions about difficulty expectations?

tips: 1amerApYUVjsKSuVUtfjxaoi7QXG7Zwao
bitly
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October 29, 2013, 06:25:46 AM
 #2047

I'd say we start the legal process and find a lawyer. With this many users screwed, there should be enough profit for a lawyer.

Unity is the force!

Ninja, it looks like there wasn't a clause stating a refund policy in the latter posted policy.  Maybe this was a clarification.

Well there was this:

Quote
Except for delivery dates explicitly guaranteed in the order confirmation, delivery dates communicated or acknowledged by Hashfast are approximate only, and Hashfast shall not be liable for, nor shall Hashfast be in breach of its obligations to Buyer because of any delivery made within a reasonable time before or after the stated delivery date.

A customer should be able to get a full refund if the delivery is not made within a reasonable time frame after the stated delivery date (Oct 20-30 at the time of my purchase). The question is what is a reasonable time frame for this type of product? Clearly since the majority of the profit is made in the first few weeks after purchase after which it quickly degenerates into a large and heavy paperweight I'd say reasonably short (a few weeks).

As integrity42 pointed out in the other HashFast thread, a 400GH/s miner is now expected to only mine ~15.3 BTC in a 1 year period (Starting Nov 23, assuming a 4 week delivery delay)

I paid 59 BTC for my BJ so I feel like a proper fool now... Part of it my own fault of course (I did not expect network growth to go double exponential). But HF was only able to demand this kind of premium from Batch 1 customers because of the listed delivery dates of Oct 20-30. Time *is* Money. If they would have listed December 31 they would never have sold all units at these prices.

DeathAndTaxes
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October 29, 2013, 07:29:45 AM
 #2048

Can someone fix my logic here, what is the point of MPP?

Current - BTC @ 195 - 10.26 BTC
Assuming 850M difficulty at receipt and 30% increases each adjustment = no MPP, break even within 90 days.
Assuming 1070M difficulty at receipt and 40% increases each adjustment = MPP must kick in because day 90 you will have 7.4BTC.

Per HF MPP rules, it would have taken an additional 150GH to hit the 10.26BTC we started with. They double it to 300GH, round up to the nearest whole GN (1 chip @ 400). Now you have 400GH to put on your system 90 days after you received it. In this crazy town of 40% constant difficulty increases, that would yield you an additional 0.2 BTC, which is not worth the extra MPP fee.

If difficulty remains under the 40% curve, MPP won't kick in.
If difficulty remains over the 40% curve, MPP will kick in but won't be worth it.

Are people who are buying MPP imagining that it will be extremely difficult to mine for the first 90 days, so that MPP will kick in, but then it will stop so that the extra capacity can give make MPP worth it? Can someone who thinks MPP is a great idea please share their assumptions about difficulty expectations?

Under the scenario you described you are better off purchasing the non MPP option.   However imagine a scenario where the growth of the difficulty growth slows down.

So 40% per adjustment today, 30% a month from now, 25% the next month, etc.   What curve will look like is unknown.  However given there are real world economics in play (limited BTC availability, electrical costs, future miners estimating the profitability of new hardware purchases) as difficulty goes up the future prospects go down and that will have a cooling effect on future sales.   I don't think the curve will bend before 10 PH/s because likely there is already that much hashpower in preorders but will it bend around 10 PH/s? 20 PH/s? 100 PH/s? or never bend all the way up to 111,000 PH/s (and miners will spend 1000% of BTC reward in electricity as some using genesis block calculator seem to think)?  I have no idea however it is very likely the curve will bend at some point and if it does bend it likely will be after the first 90 days. 

willphase
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October 29, 2013, 07:48:35 AM
 #2049

Can you show us the NDA?

best post so far! Smiley

Will

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October 29, 2013, 07:55:03 AM
 #2050

Can someone fix my logic here, what is the point of MPP?

Current - BTC @ 195 - 10.26 BTC
Assuming 850M difficulty at receipt and 30% increases each adjustment = no MPP, break even within 90 days.
Assuming 1070M difficulty at receipt and 40% increases each adjustment = MPP must kick in because day 90 you will have 7.4BTC.

Per HF MPP rules, it would have taken an additional 150GH to hit the 10.26BTC we started with. They double it to 300GH, round up to the nearest whole GN (1 chip @ 400). Now you have 400GH to put on your system 90 days after you received it. In this crazy town of 40% constant difficulty increases, that would yield you an additional 0.2 BTC, which is not worth the extra MPP fee.

If difficulty remains under the 40% curve, MPP won't kick in.
If difficulty remains over the 40% curve, MPP will kick in but won't be worth it.

Are people who are buying MPP imagining that it will be extremely difficult to mine for the first 90 days, so that MPP will kick in, but then it will stop so that the extra capacity can give make MPP worth it? Can someone who thinks MPP is a great idea please share their assumptions about difficulty expectations?

Scam, as suspected.  90 days is a lot of difficulty changes.
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October 29, 2013, 09:00:39 AM
 #2051

Hashfast's pricing scheme is pretty messed up in hindsight and I am very surprised they are not really doing anything about it. 

If it aint broken, dont fix it. Apparently they are selling pretty well, otherwise (and sooner or later anyway) you'd see far more aggressive price cuts. That goes for all vendors btw.
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October 29, 2013, 10:59:04 AM
 #2052

The thing is that they seem to be closed to any further suggestion and compensation. We will end having our BJs and a customer that comes on further batches, without any product already shipped is expected to have more profits than us. Not pretty fair  Sad

If I were Hashfast right now I would not be engaging individual customers, especially excitable ones, in extended discussions either. It's pointless and probably a waste of time, although I agree that a couple of the communications from them that I've seen posted here were curt and somewhat defensive.  What this suggests to me is that they are feeling pressure and responsibility, and that's good.  They have a lot of our money and need to deliver.

If I was Hashfast I would, however, be diligently monitoring discussions like this one and seriously thinking about comments and suggestions submitted in a civil fashion, with a view to announcing a plan to address the situation of batch one customers as soon as the chips fall into place (i.e. when there are more known knowns). 

With that, I'm done with this topic until further news from the company itself!  See ya then.

What they have to do, by law is offer refunds to people who ask for them, until they ship a product.

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October 29, 2013, 11:04:59 AM
 #2053

You give me questions, I give them questions and try to be the go-between and get your answers.

Tacotime,

When I placed my early batch 1 order, the Dec 31st clause did not exist. It was added later.

Regardless, by law, they are required to issue a refund if requested, as we have prepaid for a product that has not shipped, and is late. I have politely requested a refund, by email, and I received a response from Hashfast denying that request.

Why are they breaking the law?
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October 29, 2013, 11:07:34 AM
 #2054

You give me questions, I give them questions and try to be the go-between and get your answers.

Tacotime,

When I placed my early batch 1 order, the Dec 31st clause did not exist. It was added later.

Regardless, by law, they are required to issue a refund if requested, as we have prepaid for a product that has not shipped, and is late. I have politely requested a refund, by email, and I received a response from Hashfast denying that request.

Why are they breaking the law?

Because they have nothing to give you and you can't do anything to them since no CC or Paypal payments Smiley

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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October 29, 2013, 11:07:55 AM
 #2055

You give me questions, I give them questions and try to be the go-between and get your answers.

Tacotime,

When I placed my early batch 1 order, the Dec 31st clause did not exist. It was added later.

Regardless, by law, they are required to issue a refund if requested, as we have prepaid for a product that has not shipped, and is late. I have politely requested a refund, by email, and I received a response from Hashfast denying that request.

Why are they breaking the law?

Because they have nothing to give you and you can't do anything to them since no CC or Paypal payments Smiley

He can sue.

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October 29, 2013, 11:36:02 AM
 #2056

So chips [by TSMC] were meant to be done towards the end of October? 22ish?

But only thing left is the substrates (some weeks delay)? Then they will package it. (second week Nov)

What's the next step after?
af_newbie
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October 29, 2013, 12:42:00 PM
 #2057

You give me questions, I give them questions and try to be the go-between and get your answers.

Tacotime,

When I placed my early batch 1 order, the Dec 31st clause did not exist. It was added later.

Regardless, by law, they are required to issue a refund if requested, as we have prepaid for a product that has not shipped, and is late. I have politely requested a refund, by email, and I received a response from Hashfast denying that request.

Why are they breaking the law?

If they denied your refund request, they are scamming you.  You should definitely take them to court. 

Why do I hear http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flWP28y2cyw in the background?
MinorMiner
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October 29, 2013, 01:24:37 PM
 #2058

Can someone fix my logic here, what is the point of MPP?

Current - BTC @ 195 - 10.26 BTC
Assuming 850M difficulty at receipt and 30% increases each adjustment = no MPP, break even within 90 days.
Assuming 1070M difficulty at receipt and 40% increases each adjustment = MPP must kick in because day 90 you will have 7.4BTC.

Per HF MPP rules, it would have taken an additional 150GH to hit the 10.26BTC we started with. They double it to 300GH, round up to the nearest whole GN (1 chip @ 400). Now you have 400GH to put on your system 90 days after you received it. In this crazy town of 40% constant difficulty increases, that would yield you an additional 0.2 BTC, which is not worth the extra MPP fee.

If difficulty remains under the 40% curve, MPP won't kick in.
If difficulty remains over the 40% curve, MPP will kick in but won't be worth it.

Are people who are buying MPP imagining that it will be extremely difficult to mine for the first 90 days, so that MPP will kick in, but then it will stop so that the extra capacity can give make MPP worth it? Can someone who thinks MPP is a great idea please share their assumptions about difficulty expectations?

Remember though, the Batch 1 prices were not available without the MPP .. so in order to get that 'first in line' feeling you had to pay the $5600 or whatever it was. Now it seems like a rip-off since the October batch is now a November batch

All contributions gratefully received 1G6Wia22Jnpz2DUisA5EoAC6KJ7MHm6QyP
tacotime
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October 29, 2013, 01:30:17 PM
 #2059

I've sent the company rep a battery of questions, I'll let you know when I get a response although I am sick and I do have to work today too.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
itod
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^ will code for bitcoins


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October 29, 2013, 03:13:46 PM
 #2060

3) Should customers be concerned they indicated at 2 week delay but now seem to be pushing the "31 DEC" date heavily?
Either they delivery before the 31 of Dec or they are bankrupted, there are not many other possibilities from their point of view...

So:
Until they fail to delivery before Dec 31st => no refunds,
If they fail to delivery at that date => they are bankrupted => no refunds.

No refunds in any case.

If I've understood you correctly that part about bankrupting is directly from HF.

We are screwed. Don't want to mention lawyers, since no group-lawyer-attempt have ever succeeded @ bitcointalk.org. Don't know what to look forward to, there's no positive outcome for us customers from this situation.
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