Yecchi
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 Offline
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
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August 08, 2013, 02:38:44 PM |
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Avalon were a "victim of their own success."
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The grue lurks in the darkest places of the earth. Its favorite diet is adventurers, but its insatiable appetite is tempered by its fear of light. No grue has ever been seen by the light of day, and few have survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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reactor
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August 08, 2013, 02:41:35 PM |
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This thread is totally off-track, but to add to this bitcoin/currency thing.
BitCoin is both a currency and a currency/security.
If it can be used to purchase physical and/or digital goods => currency.
If it can be traded against other securities, much like USD, JPY, etc. => currency/security (think Forex).
So it plays by all the same rules. The "fuzzy" area is where value comes from. For example, the IRS published a document saying that mining can be considered income for taxable reasons, but the what if's are bigger than the answers. If I mine and don't move it beyond my BTC wallet, what have I earned? If I am going to be taxed, is it only on BTC I have exchanged for fiat? If I am going to be taxed, what is the value for taxation (Gox, BTC-E, BitStamp, etc.)?
No gov't body has clear answers until the point you move BTC to fiat or exchange it for goods that have a defined value, then it has a definite "value". If I exchange 50BTC at $10 each, I can be taxed on $500. If I exchange 50BTC at $1000 each, first up I'm very happy, but second I can be taxed on $50,000.
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Loredo
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August 08, 2013, 02:46:59 PM |
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Umm this is a submitted court record from a US Gov site where it states and explain what in 'investment contract' is, why Bitcoin IS a currency, and what defines a 'common enterprise'. I cut out the bit about the definition of a security, that was the line before and irrelevant to this. Yes, your're right. I read it very quickly the other night, and, to my discredit, was looking just make sure the motion to dismiss was denied. While this is, itself, not a definitive ruling on the "money" nature of bitcoin, the fact that at least this district holds the way they do is good news for people who have contracts which are/were exchanges of bitcoins (=money) for good or promises of goods. Good correction; thanks. |
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Boxman90
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August 08, 2013, 02:47:45 PM |
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My prediction:
The 200 mil $ investor only would invest the 200 mil if the rest of the chips now available would be sold/shipped to him.
So the investor now has all the chips, Yifu is going to refund all chip purchaces, and that's that.
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LTC: LKKy4eDWyVtSrQAJy7Qmmz61RaFY91D9yC BTC: 18fzdnCkuUNthCD8hM36UBGopFa9ij78gG
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-Redacted-
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August 08, 2013, 02:51:04 PM |
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The "$200 million investment" has been debunked as a hoax.
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Sitarow
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
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August 08, 2013, 02:52:00 PM |
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This thread is totally off-track, but to add to this bitcoin/currency thing.
BitCoin is both a currency and a currency/security.
If it can be used to purchase physical and/or digital goods => currency.
If it can be traded against other securities, much like USD, JPY, etc. => currency/security (think Forex).
So it plays by all the same rules. The "fuzzy" area is where value comes from. For example, the IRS published a document saying that mining can be considered income for taxable reasons, but the what if's are bigger than the answers. If I mine and don't move it beyond my BTC wallet, what have I earned? If I am going to be taxed, is it only on BTC I have exchanged for fiat? If I am going to be taxed, what is the value for taxation (Gox, BTC-E, BitStamp, etc.)?
No gov't body has clear answers until the point you move BTC to fiat or exchange it for goods that have a defined value, then it has a definite "value". If I exchange 50BTC at $10 each, I can be taxed on $500. If I exchange 50BTC at $1000 each, first up I'm very happy, but second I can be taxed on $50,000.
However Germany has set a solid stance on how BTC investments should be taxed. |
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Milan77
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August 08, 2013, 02:54:58 PM |
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My prediction:
The 200 mil $ investor only would invest the 200 mil if the rest of the chips now available would be sold/shipped to him.
So the investor now has all the chips, Yifu is going to refund all chip purchaces, and that's that.
Why to hell anyone needs obsolete technology  Price for chips should be lowered 5x to be good investment. |
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AtomSea
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 143
Merit: 100
So sexy, it hurts.
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August 08, 2013, 02:55:41 PM |
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This thread is totally off-track, but to add to this bitcoin/currency thing.
BitCoin is both a currency and a currency/security.
If it can be used to purchase physical and/or digital goods => currency.
If it can be traded against other securities, much like USD, JPY, etc. => currency/security (think Forex).
So it plays by all the same rules. The "fuzzy" area is where value comes from. For example, the IRS published a document saying that mining can be considered income for taxable reasons, but the what if's are bigger than the answers. If I mine and don't move it beyond my BTC wallet, what have I earned? If I am going to be taxed, is it only on BTC I have exchanged for fiat? If I am going to be taxed, what is the value for taxation (Gox, BTC-E, BitStamp, etc.)?
No gov't body has clear answers until the point you move BTC to fiat or exchange it for goods that have a defined value, then it has a definite "value". If I exchange 50BTC at $10 each, I can be taxed on $500. If I exchange 50BTC at $1000 each, first up I'm very happy, but second I can be taxed on $50,000.
This thread finally got interesting. I find this type of discussion legit and has more bearing on us than miners/chips/unicorns. Is there a thread we can discuss this? Or create a new one? For real. |
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Milan77
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August 08, 2013, 02:56:38 PM |
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PLEASE EVERYONE !!!! BACK ON TOPIC. Yifu is landed  And he is alive. Now we could hear the story how was it in another galaxy... |
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SebastianJu
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1082
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
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August 08, 2013, 03:00:26 PM |
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My prediction:
The 200 mil $ investor only would invest the 200 mil if the rest of the chips now available would be sold/shipped to him.
So the investor now has all the chips, Yifu is going to refund all chip purchaces, and that's that.
Why to hell anyone needs obsolete technology Price for chips should be lowered 5x to be good investment. The problem with the chips is that its not a ready to run miner. One has to pay more than the double on top to have a miner, psu, housing and so on to have a miner. A bit lower chip price is not the same like when Yifu would lower the price for one of his miners for the same percent. |
Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
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jgarzik
Legendary
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Activity: 1596
Merit: 1091
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August 08, 2013, 03:01:35 PM |
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watching
Next time, try clicking the "watch" link. There is no need to respond to a thread, just to watch it. (look at Watchlist link in the upper left) |
Jeff Garzik, Bloq CEO, former bitcoin core dev team; opinions are my own.
Visit bloq.com / metronome.io
Donations / tip jar: 1BrufViLKnSWtuWGkryPsKsxonV2NQ7Tcj
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zendantom
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August 08, 2013, 03:02:12 PM |
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My prediction:
The 200 mil $ investor only would invest the 200 mil if the rest of the chips now available would be sold/shipped to him.
So the investor now has all the chips, Yifu is going to refund all chip purchaces, and that's that.
Why to hell anyone needs obsolete technology Price for chips should be lowered 5x to be good investment. I agree It will be interesting what the 200 mil will be used for. If for the development cost and the devices will be sold to public, or they will mine themselves |
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reactor
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August 08, 2013, 03:05:21 PM |
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PLEASE EVERYONE !!!! BACK ON TOPIC. Yifu is landed And he is alive. Now we could hear the story how was it in another galaxy... Random rumor - Yifu is going to let us know he is retiring and to thank us for our hospitality since the community had a more violent reaction to BFL screwing up than to Avalon screwing up.  |
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Vigil
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August 08, 2013, 03:06:22 PM |
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So are we going to get news tomorrow, as in 8/9 or today? The thread was started at 12:32 AM in my timezone, which could have been 8/7 in another timezone.
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Milan77
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August 08, 2013, 03:06:58 PM |
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My prediction:
The 200 mil $ investor only would invest the 200 mil if the rest of the chips now available would be sold/shipped to him.
So the investor now has all the chips, Yifu is going to refund all chip purchaces, and that's that.
Why to hell anyone needs obsolete technology Price for chips should be lowered 5x to be good investment. The problem with the chips is that its not a ready to run miner. One has to pay more than the double on top to have a miner, psu, housing and so on to have a miner. A bit lower chip price is not the same like when Yifu would lower the price for one of his miners for the same percent. I agree, but can anyone even guess real price per chip from factory? I bet it is not more than 0.03btc |
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theDF
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Activity: 56
Merit: 0
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August 08, 2013, 03:15:23 PM |
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Im watching... umm already page 9
*edit: what kind of news it going to be?
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Xialla
Legendary
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Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
/dev/null
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August 08, 2013, 03:17:18 PM |
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Im watching... umm already page 9
Next time, try clicking the "watch" link. There is no need to respond to a thread, just to watch it. (look at Watchlist link in the upper left) |
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xyzzy099
Legendary
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Activity: 1062
Merit: 1041
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August 08, 2013, 04:04:00 PM |
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So are we going to get news tomorrow, as in 8/9 or today? The thread was started at 12:32 AM in my timezone, which could have been 8/7 in another timezone.
The topic name is "Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013". |
Libertarians: Diligently plotting to take over the world and leave you alone.
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Vigil
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August 08, 2013, 04:07:00 PM |
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So are we going to get news tomorrow, as in 8/9 or today? The thread was started at 12:32 AM in my timezone, which could have been 8/7 in another timezone.
The topic name is "Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013". Oh, yeah, didn't see that. Just saw "Incoming Avalon News". |
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sbfree
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August 08, 2013, 04:08:29 PM |
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Topic might be News 8/9/13, but the fact is his post is "NEWS." And secondly, just prior to his post BTC price started to drop and at the time of posting BTC price dropped some more.....does not bode well.
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