Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[Flying Hellfish]

The days of ASIC pre-payments are rapidly coming  to an end. One string of ripoffs after another, with no light at the end of the tunnel.

I wish I could believe this, but I think you might be underestimating the $ in peoples eyes even still.  Look at the last (well all of really LOL) the recent offerings and they all only offer full payment pre-orders and appear to be selling lots of them...

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[Vigil]

Some of the people in the group buys already have their miners and are mining with them - for everyone else they will wait until that group has their ROI and then ship yours out, i.e., when it is too late and they are already purchasing gen 2s in Oct.

Already, guys like Bargraphics are shilling for Avalon for Gen 2:

While Avalon has totally let us down and screwed us over, they are far ahead of bitfury in terms of development time.

They will likely have their Gen 2 out prior to bitfury (If he has one being made).

Their newsletter also stated they will not be selling Pre-Orders anymore so this might be excellent for customers.

They've had all of this time to become a better company, see the issues that have risen, and try to fix them going forward.


One can hope they do improve but currently yes we all hate Avalon but if they offer a great deal in the future with instock items I won't let this get in the way.

Time will tell.

They have had all this time to become a better company and they have not become one, so why would you consider supporting them in the future?

[Flying Hellfish]

Maybe now people will start to understand why ALL FULL fucking PAYMENT pre-orders are really really bad for most consumers

No.  No, they won't.  A man named Ed Miller explained why in the Journal of Finance before most of you were born (1977?).  

He pointed out that only in perfect information markets is the demand curve flat (homogeneous expectations, like the theory states).  When there's imperfect information, then it's not, and the price (and, here, the terms) are set by the most optimistic (a kind term for "biggest fools"), which are often quite a ways from the median or the consensus.

So as long as information is imperfect, there will always be a sloping demand curve, with plenty of room for plenty of fools to enrich even the most brazen of scammers.

I hate to admit it but I was born a number of years before 77, and ya Miller was right, it goes to my "gold rush mentality" statement at the end of my post

[Loredo]

The days of ASIC pre-payments are rapidly coming  to an end. One string of ripoffs after another, with no light at the end of the tunnel.

I wish I could believe this, but I think you might be underestimating the $ in peoples eyes even still.  Look at the last (well all of really LOL) the recent offerings and they all only offer full payment pre-orders and appear to be selling lots of them...

Yea, and HashFast is demanding payment in forms with no embedded consumer protection (in the guise of "hey, the is Bitcoins.  Credit cards and Paypal are the hated Old Economy."), but they're almost down to 10 bucks a GH, so they're a bargain.  The dream goes on.

By the way, that HashFast bunch is the poster child for Too Clever By Half.  Watch them work; it's a thing of beauty.

[Loredo]

They have had all this time to become a better company and they have not become one, so why would you consider supporting them in the future?

If they could provide a working product for immediate delivery - incontrovertibly, and with full consumer protection - in my eyes, that would redeem them fully, by bringing bitcoin out of the current lawless wilderness of predator and prey.

So, therefore, whatdya think the chances of that happening really are?

[androz]

the "i'm not dead thread."

Just got off the plane, expect lots of news tomorrow.

i missed something  

i didn't find the "today's news".....  

(maybe r hidden in the 30 pages of thread?)

[-Redacted-]

He posted the news.  

They're working on generation 2 of the chips and won't be selling the gen-1 chips once they're out of stock.  Also, they won't be doing pre-orders from this point on, only shipping from stock.  Also, the mafia is after them, which is why no response for 5 weeks.  And the chips should be shipping again by "the end of next week".

[Loredo]

I hate to admit it but I was born a number of years before 77

Nothing to be ashamed of there.  In fact, the probability of being able to make it out of Deadwood with your wallets - bitcoin and leather - intact is almost certainly highly correlated with age.

[Vigil]

They have had all this time to become a better company and they have not become one, so why would you consider supporting them in the future?

If they could provide a working product - incontrovertibly, and with full consumer protection - in my eyes, that redeem them fully, buy bringing bitcoin out of the current lawless wilderness of predator and prey.

So, therefore, whatdya think the chances of that happening really are?

Exactly,

All of us are mad, but the people most mad didn't follow the golden rule.

"Only invest what you can afford to lose"

These people will likely leave the mining industry altogether.



I for one will take the best deal regardless of a companies past dealings. Hell even if BFL has stock on shelves with proven delivery I'd even buy from them again.

Apparently the above statement will likely make me a "Shill" for BFL too.

There is a difference in investing what you can afford and losing it due to "things just didn't turn out well" as opposed to an intentional scam potentially involving individuals who are commenting on this thread.

[MinermanNC]

What all the uproar? the chips will start shipping again late next week. All will be fine. No one else is getting any right now so no new huge up tick in the network hash. (except for those pesky little block eruptors) lol, ok time to go to earn some real money for a while for a few hours

[Loredo]

There is a difference in investing what you can afford and losing it due to "things just didn't turn out well" as opposed to an intentional scam potentially involving individuals who are commenting on this thread.

The moment you give somebody your money without offsetting receipt you lose control.  At that point all you have is trust.

You trust in that person's character.
You trust in that person's business sense.
You trust in the business environment that person must operate.

If your trust is violated, in any one of those aspects, you lose.  There are scams perpetrated by con men.  Then there are scandals, perpetrated by character flaws, of poor business judgment and acumen, or by lawless and corrupt environments.

I'm morally certain Mr. YiFu is not one of the first type.  But I'm equally sure that Avalon, today, is the result of the perfect storm of failure in all three of the latter types of trust.

[Rakessh]

I only partially see what all the fuzz about lost time on low difficulty is about.
I mean, if the hash rate in june was about 200TH and you add another 1100TH in june or august won't matter that much since you would
increase the difficulty by >5x factor anyway, the only other problem would be IF some of the other asic operators start
shipping BULK (now, october, later, or never).  

[Vigil]

I only partially see what all the fuzz about lost time on low difficulty is about.
I mean, if the hash rate in june was about 200TH and you add another 1100TH in june or august won't matter that much since you would
increase the difficulty by >5x factor anyway, the only other problem would be IF some of the other asic operators start
shipping BULK (now, october, later, or never).  

Because it still takes time for the difficulty to increase. All the time that is lost other ASICs not made by Avalon are jumping into the network. This is common sense.

[Rakessh]

I only partially see what all the fuzz about lost time on low difficulty is about.
I mean, if the hash rate in june was about 200TH and you add another 1100TH in june or august won't matter that much since you would
increase the difficulty by >5x factor anyway, the only other problem would be IF some of the other asic operators start
shipping BULK (now, october, later, or never).  

Because it still takes time for the difficulty to increase. All the time that is lost other ASICs not made by Avalon are jumping into the network. This is common sense.

It taking time is just a function that it will increase when a certain number of blocks get done in x amount of time. If it's going too fast, then it goes up.
Now. Those blocks would all be solved 5x faster, so instead of the usual... what? 14 days, it would take less than 3 days mining at that difficulty before BOOM... you get 80+% reduction in your btc income.

So I don't think your point is valid.

[Vigil]

I only partially see what all the fuzz about lost time on low difficulty is about.
I mean, if the hash rate in june was about 200TH and you add another 1100TH in june or august won't matter that much since you would
increase the difficulty by >5x factor anyway, the only other problem would be IF some of the other asic operators start
shipping BULK (now, october, later, or never).  

Because it still takes time for the difficulty to increase. All the time that is lost other ASICs not made by Avalon are jumping into the network. This is common sense.

It taking time is just a function that it will increase when a certain number of blocks get done in x amount of time. If it's going too fast, then it goes up.
Now. Those blocks would all be solved 5x faster, so instead of the usual... what? 14 days, it would take less than 3 days mining at that difficulty before BOOM... you get 80+% reduction in your btc income.

So I don't think your point is valid.

No dude, there are more miners jumping on the network than the 500 GH that Avalon is dropping with its chips and batch 3. The difficulty just went up from 33 to 37 million without the 500 GH and is expected to jump to 45 without the 500 GH. Everyday more people are jumping on board - the idea is to beat all those people to the network.

Greed is a very hard wall to break down, even with logic.

You are an idiot. You are one of the greediest d-bags on these forums.

[atcsecure]

[/quote]
No dude, there are more miners jumping on the network than the 500 GH that Avalon is dropping with its chips and batch 3. The difficulty just went up from 33 to 37 million without the 500 GH and is expected to jump to 45 without the 500 GH. Everyday more people are jumping on board - the idea is to beat all those people to the network.

Greed is a very hard wall to break down, even with logic.

You are an idiot. You are one of the greediest d-bags on these forums.
[/quote]


who is jumping on the network and with what equipment?? if nobody is shipping how is the hash rate rising so fast ? with GPU's?? lol.. we are being scammed

[Vigil]

Has Avalon sent out the bulk of its orders? Is network hash rate increasing? That means people are putting more ASICs on the network everyday. BFL is supposedly shipping orders, there are block erupters, etc.

Here is the hash rate increasing:

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

Now, TH was initially going to ship between mid and late July. Look at the increase during that time frame.

Then it was going to ship all first orders by Aug. 15th - look at the hash rate increase from Aug 1 - 9 and estiamte what that will be in a few weeks to a few months.

The network hashrate is increasing without the Avalon chip orders hashrate. We are missing out on the lower difficulty because of it, independent of how much these chips will increase it when they jump on line.

My belief is that certain Avalon chip order have been sent and that certain individuals are profiting from having the rest of the chips delayed. Who are they? They are the shills on this thread and those who are silent. They were part of the scam that they expect to blow over once it is all said and done. They are the organizers of some of the group buys - they are the main channels by which the orders can be controlled.

[tarmi]

One of the reasons I am suspect of at least some of the group buy organizers and assemblers (i.e., TH) is that they have not been vocal at all on this subject - they remain completely silent. Why have they not all banned together to find answers weeks ago? None of it makes any sense unless they are involved or in the know somehow. They may already have the chips and are mining with them. TerraHash was originally supposed to ship the first orders between mid and late July, then they said August 15, now there is NO ETA.

They didn't plan to operate like a full-on scam where nothing would be delivered, it would just be delivered late and they assumed everything would quiet down once they were delivered even though the ROI was drastically reduced. In addition the first chip buyers who have their orders may have benefited as well by having the rest of the hashing power halted.

There may be members on this topic who are involved but playing good-cop/bad-cop.

I asked burnin what was his refund policy, since I paid in advance fo mor then 30 boards to him for the assembly job, and i paid more then 3500 euros for that, and he answered that he will not give full refunds, cause h ordered some parts that are needed for those boards. He stated that he will refund in his "financial boundries". I am really curious how much my refund eventually will be.

He yesterday started to ship boards from zefirs first batch, I am in third.

So basicly i am screwed twice. Zefir said that we should sit and wait.

Scammy at least. Btw my order is a group order of small miners. So, all the shit will.fall on them.

[Vigil]

One of the reasons I am suspect of at least some of the group buy organizers and assemblers (i.e., TH) is that they have not been vocal at all on this subject - they remain completely silent. Why have they not all banned together to find answers weeks ago? None of it makes any sense unless they are involved or in the know somehow. They may already have the chips and are mining with them. TerraHash was originally supposed to ship the first orders between mid and late July, then they said August 15, now there is NO ETA.

They didn't plan to operate like a full-on scam where nothing would be delivered, it would just be delivered late and they assumed everything would quiet down once they were delivered even though the ROI was drastically reduced. In addition the first chip buyers who have their orders may have benefited as well by having the rest of the hashing power halted.

There may be members on this topic who are involved but playing good-cop/bad-cop.

I asked burnin what was his refund policy, since I paid in advance fo mor then 30 boards to him for the assembly job, and i paid more then 3500 euros for that, and he answered that he will not give full refunds, cause h ordered some parts that are needed for those boards. He stated that he will refund in his "financial boundries". I am really curious how much my refund will be.

He yesterday started to ship boards from zefirs first batch, I am in third.

So basicly i am screwed twice. Zefir said that we should sit and wait.

Scammy at least. Btw my order is a group order of small miners.

They have it set up to benefit themselves and their buddies at the expense of everyone else - all of them are working together as a top-down pyramid scheme. They just needed the rest of us to fill-in the purchases and absorb all the excess chips needed to fulfill the fabrication limits. He will refund you a bit to the point he gets heavily discounted chip prices to add to his hashing power.

The boards are probably already done with the chips on them.

[-Redacted-]

I'm done with this paranoid skitzo...  Ignored.