Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[San1ty]

Why is everybody so angry? I could't be bothered to read through 20 pages of flame.

[1714483802]

1714483802

[Vigil]

I am happy to hear the news from Yifu. I feel the tone of this community has a pretty poor attitude towards the engineers that make it all possible, and the people that work hard creating companies doing what they love (which is not sitting around making sure mining rigs have power). I know BFL took a really long time to develop their product, but Avalon has their product developed.

All this talk about making roi... maybe you should power them with an excersice bike instead of paying for overpriced middle America electricity fees. You would have enough time to calm down and make some happy molecules in your brains (these are important). Also if you plan on making real money(over 50k/yr min) by mining you might want to start looking for a real job again, I mine to support the bitcoin currency and to generate a littlte bit of it for myself, I also work 2 jobs and create electronics as a revenue generating hobby.

You must have understood the risk involved when you spent the money on chips... hell their wasn't even a working board design (other than avalons) when I spent my money. You must have seen what went down with BFL before you spent money on pre order chips from Avalon... Im glad I talked my buddy out of dropping $20k on boards from terrahash (dropped $2k instead, put 15k in a hedge and a little liquid). Did you not understand the rise in difficulty that was going to occur? I also didn't put all my eggs in one basket... if you are looking at bitcoin mining hardware as an investment then you should really diversify so you don't get burned.

I just feel the attitude in this room is a bit dark and could use some light. Especially seeing how none of this technology even existed a year ago and you are all complaining how screwed you are to not have the latest and greatest toys.

Don't give us your holier-than-thou BS - "I don't care if I make profit, I am in this for the betterment of the bitcoin network". Total crap. The betterment of the bitcoin network results from making profit - profit is what is guaranteeing efficiency and reliability in the network. Your view actually prevents healthy growth of the network, because you aren't demanding that its infrastructure improve.

The rise in difficulty IS understood, which is why getting these products on time is necessary. When we don't get the products on time, that hurts Bitcoin, not just us because good BTC investment money went after bad. You obviously do not understand economics in general, and definitely don't understand how it applies to the growth of Bitcoin.

It is also a bad idea to share the tracking number because....as has been evident before Kano. Someone out there has been doing social engineering to steal Avalons...so a couple multiples of "ten thousand(s)" of chips would make a great DHL target.

Taking a non-descript screen cap of the claimed customs hold is enough as long as certain critical elements are blurred out so the social engineering can't take place.

Keep in mind they now have Yifu and the teams personal info, so pretending to be them is possible. Especially if there is a PDF out in the wild with all the team members personal addresses and details.

What??? They can't give the tracking numbers to those who they are shipping to? Yet another dumb statement from the sympathizers.

On another note, we don't know whether this "We have been targeted" story is even true, this could be just a emotional diversion to make us feel sorry for the Avalon team and cushion the blow.

[GandalfG]

SO WHAT ARE THESE CHIPS?


SO this photo was made @ chinese customs office?
http://thegenesisblock.com/latest-shipment-of-avalon-asics-could-increase-network-hashrate-by-500/#!prettyPhoto

It is a lie.

maybe boxes are empty ?

No. Those boxes had 14.2 million sitting there and this was posted a month ago by former Bitsyncom design team member Gridchip that announced the split in Bitsyncom.

http://imgur.com/a/GR0e3

Read once again this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269950.msg2896166#msg2896166

[HeRetiK]

Why is everybody so angry? I could't be bothered to read through 20 pages of flame.

TLDR; Avalon pulling a BFL while also announcing next gen chips for October just to make sure that their current customers will never reach ROI.

http://www.avalon-asics.com/

[Bicknellski]

There is more than just Yifu involved and behind Bitsyncom and contacts span multiple countries, if they don't start talking to you, you have options;


INTERPOL is the world’s largest international police organization, with 190 member countries including the US and China. Their role is to enable police around the world to work together to make the world a safer place. Their high-tech infrastructure of technical and operational support helps meet the growing challenges of fighting crime in the 21st century.

http://www.interpol.int/Crime-areas/Financial-crime/Fraud

http://www.interpol.int/Contact-INTERPOL

http://www.interpol.int/Member-countries/Asia-South-Pacific/China

http://www.interpol.int/Member-countries/Americas/United-States



"Advance fee fraud is when fraudsters target victims to make advance or upfront payments for goods, services and/or financial gains that do not materialise."

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-advance-fee-fraud

What to do if you are a victim

If you have lost money

If you believe you are a victim of advance fee fraud, the coalition members strongly encourage you to file a complaint with your local police. If you are in the United States consider filing a complaint with the Federal Beaureau of Investigation's Internet Crime Complaint Center.

http://www.affcoalition.org/victim.html


The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C).

http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx


This final link tells you how to report Internet crime that has occurred in each country including China (scroll down page for content);

http://www.consumerfraudreporting.org/reporting.php

We just have to make some mess to delay gen 2 chips, and to make Yifu loose his secret investor from Amsterdam. Eye for en eye

Don't need to take his eyes out... just need to BOYCOTT all AVALON products from this point forward.

[PuertoLibre]

The degree to which new companies these days are vetted, visited & generally doubted is quite extreme. Nobody should buy from Avalon (if ever again) without laying eyes on their lab & doing a meet & greet.

Being first to market matters for little in the IT world, just ask Netscape. I wish the same fate for Bitsyncom/Avalon

Netscape?

You mean the company that designed the ancestor to firefox and is now among one of the largest browsers in current use around the world?

Didn't they change their name to Mozilla or they open sourced the software and kept developing it.

[ftping]

Why is everybody so angry? I could't be bothered to read through 20 pages of flame.

People are understandably upset about not receiving their chips in the designated lead time. Lots of money being burned here as difficulty rises.

That said, I think it's pretty childish, inappropriate, and stupid for anyone on here to make death threats/talk about hitmen etc.

[PuertoLibre]

I am happy to hear the news from Yifu. I feel the tone of this community has a pretty poor attitude towards the engineers that make it all possible, and the people that work hard creating companies doing what they love (which is not sitting around making sure mining rigs have power). I know BFL took a really long time to develop their product, but Avalon has their product developed.

All this talk about making roi... maybe you should power them with an excersice bike instead of paying for overpriced middle America electricity fees. You would have enough time to calm down and make some happy molecules in your brains (these are important). Also if you plan on making real money(over 50k/yr min) by mining you might want to start looking for a real job again, I mine to support the bitcoin currency and to generate a littlte bit of it for myself, I also work 2 jobs and create electronics as a revenue generating hobby.

You must have understood the risk involved when you spent the money on chips... hell their wasn't even a working board design (other than avalons) when I spent my money. You must have seen what went down with BFL before you spent money on pre order chips from Avalon... Im glad I talked my buddy out of dropping $20k on boards from terrahash (dropped $2k instead, put 15k in a hedge and a little liquid). Did you not understand the rise in difficulty that was going to occur? I also didn't put all my eggs in one basket... if you are looking at bitcoin mining hardware as an investment then you should really diversify so you don't get burned.

I just feel the attitude in this room is a bit dark and could use some light. Especially seeing how none of this technology even existed a year ago and you are all complaining how screwed you are to not have the latest and greatest toys.

Don't give us your holier-than-thou BS - "I don't care if I make profit, I am in this for the betterment of the bitcoin network". Total crap. The betterment of the bitcoin network results from making profit - profit is what is guaranteeing efficiency and reliability in the network. Your view actually prevents healthy growth of the network, because you aren't demanding that its infrastructure improve.

The rise in difficulty IS understood, which is why getting these products on time is necessary. When we don't get the products on time, that hurts Bitcoin, not just us because good BTC investment money went after bad. You obviously do not understand economics in general, and definitely don't understand how it applies to the growth of Bitcoin.

It is also a bad idea to share the tracking number because....as has been evident before Kano. Someone out there has been doing social engineering to steal Avalons...so a couple multiples of "ten thousand(s)" of chips would make a great DHL target.

Taking a non-descript screen cap of the claimed customs hold is enough as long as certain critical elements are blurred out so the social engineering can't take place.

Keep in mind they now have Yifu and the teams personal info, so pretending to be them is possible. Especially if there is a PDF out in the wild with all the team members personal addresses and details.

What??? They can't give the tracking numbers to those who they are shipping to? Yet another dumb statement from the sympathizers.

On another note, we don't know whether this "We have been targeted" story is even true, this could be just a emotional diversion to make us feel sorry for the Avalon team and cushion the blow.

Vgil, are you stupid or didn't you read what I wrote carefully?

You want them to give out tracking numbers so anyone with some skill can re-route the package while still in transit? Are you stupid or what?

[pajak666]

You want them to give out tracking numbers so anyone with some skill can re-route the package while still in transit? Are you stupid or what?

Why we don't send forum trusted member to verify that?
Or maybe one of the big group buyers?

[San1ty]

Why is everybody so angry? I could't be bothered to read through 20 pages of flame.

TLDR; Avalon pulling a BFL while also announcing next gen chips for October just to make sure that their current customers will never reach ROI.

http://www.avalon-asics.com/

Classic :-).

[PuertoLibre]

You want them to give out tracking numbers so anyone with some skill can re-route the package while still in transit? Are you stupid or what?

Why we don't send forum trusted member to verify that?
Or maybe one of the big group buyers?

Sounds reasonable to me.

But not to anyone else. If people think they are screwed because of the delay, imagine the tagline from Yifu that reads:

"We are investigating someone who called DHL to have a certain Group Buys' order rerouted to an alternate destination."

That would be a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

[Vigil]

I am happy to hear the news from Yifu. I feel the tone of this community has a pretty poor attitude towards the engineers that make it all possible, and the people that work hard creating companies doing what they love (which is not sitting around making sure mining rigs have power). I know BFL took a really long time to develop their product, but Avalon has their product developed.

All this talk about making roi... maybe you should power them with an excersice bike instead of paying for overpriced middle America electricity fees. You would have enough time to calm down and make some happy molecules in your brains (these are important). Also if you plan on making real money(over 50k/yr min) by mining you might want to start looking for a real job again, I mine to support the bitcoin currency and to generate a littlte bit of it for myself, I also work 2 jobs and create electronics as a revenue generating hobby.

You must have understood the risk involved when you spent the money on chips... hell their wasn't even a working board design (other than avalons) when I spent my money. You must have seen what went down with BFL before you spent money on pre order chips from Avalon... Im glad I talked my buddy out of dropping $20k on boards from terrahash (dropped $2k instead, put 15k in a hedge and a little liquid). Did you not understand the rise in difficulty that was going to occur? I also didn't put all my eggs in one basket... if you are looking at bitcoin mining hardware as an investment then you should really diversify so you don't get burned.

I just feel the attitude in this room is a bit dark and could use some light. Especially seeing how none of this technology even existed a year ago and you are all complaining how screwed you are to not have the latest and greatest toys.

Don't give us your holier-than-thou BS - "I don't care if I make profit, I am in this for the betterment of the bitcoin network". Total crap. The betterment of the bitcoin network results from making profit - profit is what is guaranteeing efficiency and reliability in the network. Your view actually prevents healthy growth of the network, because you aren't demanding that its infrastructure improve.

The rise in difficulty IS understood, which is why getting these products on time is necessary. When we don't get the products on time, that hurts Bitcoin, not just us because good BTC investment money went after bad. You obviously do not understand economics in general, and definitely don't understand how it applies to the growth of Bitcoin.

It is also a bad idea to share the tracking number because....as has been evident before Kano. Someone out there has been doing social engineering to steal Avalons...so a couple multiples of "ten thousand(s)" of chips would make a great DHL target.

Taking a non-descript screen cap of the claimed customs hold is enough as long as certain critical elements are blurred out so the social engineering can't take place.

Keep in mind they now have Yifu and the teams personal info, so pretending to be them is possible. Especially if there is a PDF out in the wild with all the team members personal addresses and details.

What??? They can't give the tracking numbers to those who they are shipping to? Yet another dumb statement from the sympathizers.

On another note, we don't know whether this "We have been targeted" story is even true, this could be just a emotional diversion to make us feel sorry for the Avalon team and cushion the blow.

Vgil, are you stupid or didn't you read what I wrote carefully?

You want them to give out tracking numbers so anyone with some skill can re-route the package while still in transit? Are you stupid or what?

You're argument here makes no sense. If these chips are being shipped to specific people then give those specific people their specific tracking number. I do not see the harm in that. The likely-hood of someone stumbling upon a tracking number is minute and even if they did they would have to travel to the destination of delivery and then hope they got to the package before the person it was shipped to.

[giorgiomassa]

Their news announcement is the biggest bunch of sh*t I've ever been reading, I'm in business from years and I know exactly that customs problems exist, but can be solved within 1 or 2 days if you're willing to, with legit or less legit ways, what they say is simply ridiculous.

What happened is that they decided to use the ICs from the ASIC orders batch to clear the huge waiting queue of batches 2 and 3, because this way there would have been proportionally less angry customers (one angry ASIC batch customers equals 31 angry mining rigs customers, if math is not an option).

From my point of view they lost any kind of respect and reputation and I'd never ever want to buy something again from a company that doesn't keep promises.

[PuertoLibre]

I am happy to hear the news from Yifu. I feel the tone of this community has a pretty poor attitude towards the engineers that make it all possible, and the people that work hard creating companies doing what they love (which is not sitting around making sure mining rigs have power). I know BFL took a really long time to develop their product, but Avalon has their product developed.

All this talk about making roi... maybe you should power them with an excersice bike instead of paying for overpriced middle America electricity fees. You would have enough time to calm down and make some happy molecules in your brains (these are important). Also if you plan on making real money(over 50k/yr min) by mining you might want to start looking for a real job again, I mine to support the bitcoin currency and to generate a littlte bit of it for myself, I also work 2 jobs and create electronics as a revenue generating hobby.

You must have understood the risk involved when you spent the money on chips... hell their wasn't even a working board design (other than avalons) when I spent my money. You must have seen what went down with BFL before you spent money on pre order chips from Avalon... Im glad I talked my buddy out of dropping $20k on boards from terrahash (dropped $2k instead, put 15k in a hedge and a little liquid). Did you not understand the rise in difficulty that was going to occur? I also didn't put all my eggs in one basket... if you are looking at bitcoin mining hardware as an investment then you should really diversify so you don't get burned.

I just feel the attitude in this room is a bit dark and could use some light. Especially seeing how none of this technology even existed a year ago and you are all complaining how screwed you are to not have the latest and greatest toys.

Don't give us your holier-than-thou BS - "I don't care if I make profit, I am in this for the betterment of the bitcoin network". Total crap. The betterment of the bitcoin network results from making profit - profit is what is guaranteeing efficiency and reliability in the network. Your view actually prevents healthy growth of the network, because you aren't demanding that its infrastructure improve.

The rise in difficulty IS understood, which is why getting these products on time is necessary. When we don't get the products on time, that hurts Bitcoin, not just us because good BTC investment money went after bad. You obviously do not understand economics in general, and definitely don't understand how it applies to the growth of Bitcoin.

It is also a bad idea to share the tracking number because....as has been evident before Kano. Someone out there has been doing social engineering to steal Avalons...so a couple multiples of "ten thousand(s)" of chips would make a great DHL target.

Taking a non-descript screen cap of the claimed customs hold is enough as long as certain critical elements are blurred out so the social engineering can't take place.

Keep in mind they now have Yifu and the teams personal info, so pretending to be them is possible. Especially if there is a PDF out in the wild with all the team members personal addresses and details.

What??? They can't give the tracking numbers to those who they are shipping to? Yet another dumb statement from the sympathizers.

On another note, we don't know whether this "We have been targeted" story is even true, this could be just a emotional diversion to make us feel sorry for the Avalon team and cushion the blow.

Vgil, are you stupid or didn't you read what I wrote carefully?

You want them to give out tracking numbers so anyone with some skill can re-route the package while still in transit? Are you stupid or what?

You're argument here makes no sense. If these chips are being shipped to specific people then give those specific people their specific tracking number. I do not see the harm in that. The likely-hood of someone stumbling upon a tracking number is minute and even if they did they would have to travel to the destination of delivery and then hope they got to the package before the person it was shipped to.

Apparently you don't know what has happened in that past with certain Avalon deliveries. Your thinking of the situation is showing me that much.

Do a search on the forum for "Avalon DHL rerouted"

I forget who were the various affected complainers as it happened a long while ago:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=163795.0

[kano]

...
So I was out shopping for food ... and on the way home I started thinking about this 'customs' comment and realised there must be some tracking numbers to prove it true (or false) ... then I read the thread now again (10 more pages ) and find it has been brought up.

But let me put it to you directly:

Firstly, the chips are being shipped from who to who?

Am I incorrect to say that the only customs involved is shipping the chips from Avalon to the customer?

Correct or false?

False, Customs doesn't ship, they only clear the package and charge import/export duty and taxes.

Read again - I said "involved is shipping" (OK was supposed to be "in" not "is" but that doesn't matter)

TSMC -> Avalon -> Customs -> Group Buy Host -> Individual Customers.

It is also a bad idea to share the tracking number because....as has been evident before Kano. Someone out there has been doing social engineering to steal Avalons...so a couple multiples of "ten thousand(s)" of chips would make a great DHL target.

No I mean give the customers their own damn tracking numbers
They can affirm or deny the customs claim ...

If that is correct, then simply give the shipping number to ANY customer and they can verify the truth of all this - since their shipping will show it stuck in customs this past week ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Again, bad idea!

Anyone of those customers can call DHL and do the same thing that was done to multiple DHL customers of Avalon. (the packages were re-routed after someone impersonated a known customer)

Again, not a bad idea.
I really wonder why it would be a bad idea to give customers their OWN shipping numbers.
You sound like Avalon batch #1 ........

Isn't that your job - mail boy? Is there anything else you actually do for all the money you get paid by your customers? ... other than spend it in Vegas ...

Kano, don't lie, we know you can't afford food. Let alone speculating on vegas.

Not any more

[shep80]

Avalon "news" raises more questions than it answers.

A good rule is to have "news" leave the reader with net less questions than when they started reading.

[Bicknellski]

Avalon "news" raises more questions than it answers.

A good rule is to have "news" leave the reader with net less questions than when they started reading.

You don't question everything that is put into print? Really? Not a follower of Chomsky I guess.

[jspielberg]

You want them to give out tracking numbers so anyone with some skill can re-route the package while still in transit? Are you stupid or what?

Why we don't send forum trusted member to verify that?
Or maybe one of the big group buyers?

Sounds reasonable to me.

But not to anyone else. If people think they are screwed because of the delay, imagine the tagline from Yifu that reads:

"We are investigating someone who called DHL to have a certain Group Buys' order rerouted to an alternate destination."

That would be a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

Another option would be for them to take some of the money they have collected and claim that price of the product is actually worth what people paid.  It might help clear up the customs nonsense.  Maybe things are done differently in China, but it cost time, and time is literally money burning in the Bitcoin world.

[erk]

Their news announcement is the biggest bunch of sh*t I've every been reading, I'm in business from years and I know exactly that customs problems exist, but can be solved within 1 or 2 days if you're willing to, with legit or less legit ways, what they say is simply ridiculous.

What happened is that they decided to use the ICs from the ASIC orders batch to clear the huge waiting queue of batches 2 and 3, because this way there would have been proportionally less angry customers (one angry ASIC batch customers equals 31 angry mining rigs customers, if math is not an option).

From my point of view they lost any kind of respect and reputation and I'd never ever want to buy something again from a company that doesn't keep promises.

Sounds like nonsense to me, for two reasons, firstly you would simply order enough chips from the foundry to cover batch 2 and 3 and the bulk chip orders, ordering more is cheap compared to the initial wafer cost. Secondly the number of bulk chips on order was more than enough to cover batch 2 and 3 several times over, where is the balance of the chips if that was true?

[PuertoLibre]

...
So I was out shopping for food ... and on the way home I started thinking about this 'customs' comment and realised there must be some tracking numbers to prove it true (or false) ... then I read the thread now again (10 more pages ) and find it has been brought up.

But let me put it to you directly:

Firstly, the chips are being shipped from who to who?

Am I incorrect to say that the only customs involved is shipping the chips from Avalon to the customer?

Correct or false?

False, Customs doesn't ship, they only clear the package and charge import/export duty and taxes.

Read again - I said "involved is shipping" (OK was supposed to be "in" not "is" but that doesn't matter)

TSMC -> Avalon -> Customs -> Group Buy Host -> Individual Customers.

It is also a bad idea to share the tracking number because....as has been evident before Kano. Someone out there has been doing social engineering to steal Avalons...so a couple multiples of "ten thousand(s)" of chips would make a great DHL target.

No I mean give the customers their own damn tracking numbers
They can affirm or deny the customs claim ...

If that is correct, then simply give the shipping number to ANY customer and they can verify the truth of all this - since their shipping will show it stuck in customs this past week ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Again, bad idea!

Anyone of those customers can call DHL and do the same thing that was done to multiple DHL customers of Avalon. (the packages were re-routed after someone impersonated a known customer)

Again, not a bad idea.
I really wonder why it would be a bad idea to give customers their OWN shipping numbers.
You sound like Avalon batch #1 ........

Isn't that your job - mail boy? Is there anything else you actually do for all the money you get paid by your customers? ... other than spend it in Vegas ...

Kano, don't lie, we know you can't afford food. Let alone speculating on vegas.

Not any more

Don't be [too] stupid about this Kano.

We are talking about publicly posting information. Not the individuals getting their own tracking number.

Nice try once you realized the fuck up on your end though.