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Author Topic: MasterCoin Buyer/Seller Thread  (Read 225269 times)
Rampion
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December 04, 2013, 11:51:44 AM
 #2041

This is becoming a big problem.  Buyers get frustrated by sending 8 e-mails and getting no answer.  We need a rule which clears the books of orders which are not valid/active.  

RULE:  When your order is part of a crossed book - and more than 3 days old - it gets removed.  Both on the buy side - and the sell side.  If a user doesn't like that his order was removed, he only needs to renew it on the 4th day to completely restore his offer.  No problem.  Much cleaner book.  Efficiency is restored as buyer and seller will only be seeking a deal on real active offers.

Yes, this indeed is a problem, the overlap really got out of hands recently.

pKnowles, I like your suggestion, this could be a good solution. Before implementing this I'd like to think a little more about it, I will post an update soon.
If anyone has a better solution to this problem, please let me know.

I have to say that as a seller I had the same problem with buyers. While I honored the only sell I've been involved in, despite of the price going up during the sale, when the price went down because of the reddit attack I tried to sell MSC sending PM to at least 5 buyers and I got no answer at all... Until 5 days passed and the price went up again - then the sellers replied me if I was still willing to sell 20% below the market price... That's lame. Some rule should apply.

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December 04, 2013, 12:03:20 PM
 #2042

This is becoming a big problem.  Buyers get frustrated by sending 8 e-mails and getting no answer.  We need a rule which clears the books of orders which are not valid/active.  

RULE:  When your order is part of a crossed book - and more than 3 days old - it gets removed.  Both on the buy side - and the sell side.  If a user doesn't like that his order was removed, he only needs to renew it on the 4th day to completely restore his offer.  No problem.  Much cleaner book.  Efficiency is restored as buyer and seller will only be seeking a deal on real active offers.

Yes, this indeed is a problem, the overlap really got out of hands recently.

pKnowles, I like your suggestion, this could be a good solution. Before implementing this I'd like to think a little more about it, I will post an update soon.
If anyone has a better solution to this problem, please let me know.

I have to say that as a seller I had the same problem with buyers. While I honored the only sell I've been involved in, despite of the price going up during the sale, when the price went down because of the reddit attack I tried to sell MSC sending PM to at least 5 buyers and I got no answer at all... Until 5 days passed and the price went up again - then the sellers replied me if I was still willing to sell 20% below the market price... That's lame. Some rule should apply.

Similar experience here. Dont know if its overkill, but the problem here is the lack of cost to trade. It costs nothing to enter onto the order book. And if you choose to, you pay nothing for an escrow service. Is a fee system to enter and/or trade, the way to go? 
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December 04, 2013, 12:13:00 PM
 #2043

Maybe traders should send beforehand funds to Maxmint/Pouncer and they do the deals with a fee included for them!
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December 04, 2013, 12:21:02 PM
 #2044

Maybe traders should send beforehand funds to Maxmint/Pouncer and they do the deals with a fee included for them!
Maybe a little too complex - but...
A hybrid includes 'funded' offers.  A green shading behind an offer in the order book indicates funds are already on deposit with the escrow agent.  All one has to do to claim the offer is send the counter funding!  Deals done instantly.  Not as good as the DEx - but far more efficient than what we have today. 




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December 04, 2013, 12:27:50 PM
 #2045

Maybe traders should send beforehand funds to Maxmint/Pouncer and they do the deals with a fee included for them!
Maybe a little too complex - but...
A hybrid includes 'funded' offers.  A green shading behind an offer in the order book indicates funds are already on deposit with the escrow agent.  All one has to do to claim the offer is send the counter funding!  Deals done instantly.  Not as good as the DEx - but far more efficient than what we have today.  



Sounds good DGulari. And if it absolves the need for you to send me the following PM, its a great idea......

"How is this for niceties: 'go fuck yourself'!!!  What not nice enough?  Then go fuck yourself sideways.  You are the offering seller moron - you are not doing me any favors."
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December 04, 2013, 12:30:14 PM
 #2046

Maybe traders should send beforehand funds to Maxmint/Pouncer and they do the deals with a fee included for them!

I think a fee definitely needs to involved if this happens, they are already spending a lot of their time on this!

What we really need is an update on how far away the distributed exchange is, as it's not worth the time setting up a more complicated system if we won't be using it for very long.
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December 04, 2013, 12:31:20 PM
 #2047

can you remove my order please.
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December 04, 2013, 12:45:58 PM
 #2048

Everyone who wants to put an order to the order book, should pay a fee (~0.1-0.01btc) first.
There will be no more (or much less) fake orders, price pump/dump, etc.
And please take a fee for your services (maxmint and pouncer), you are doing much more work than a normal exchange and btw a great job for the MSC community.
Thanks.

Signatures lead to paid signature programs which leads to spam!

Clearly we must eliminate the signatures... or ban the paid sig programs
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December 04, 2013, 01:17:05 PM
 #2049

- Warning -
[/color]

I wanted to trade with peezr 20 MSC @ 0.11 yesterday.

He offered not to use an escrow in order to save time and to start with a small trade of 1 MSC @ 0.11.

I sent the 0.11 BTC to this address: 19nJ1YSGAew2bzvvTCmKVRmBY4FtF216hB

He said he received the 0.11 BTC but never transferred the 1 MSC.

Than he stopped all communication - I have evidence of all the discussion in Gmail. The Gmail he used is:  Tarren Smith ‫‎<beautyinthemidwest@gmail.com>‎‬

Watch out and don’t trade with him without escrow.

Afterwards I traded with smiley35 and Faraday – Maxmint was the escrow and everything went great. (Maxmint is doing great job)

Lesson learnt – DON’T trade without Escrow.

Better be safe than sorry.




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December 04, 2013, 02:20:32 PM
 #2050

- Warning -
[/color]
I wanted to trade with peezr 20 MSC @ 0.11 yesterday.
Lesson learnt – DON’T trade without Escrow.
This is a real shame.  But I have to report the other side of this story too.  I've made several trades now - some including pure faith.  Most people here are straight up.  So, the good news is that scammers probably think MSC is a bit to hard to use for good quick scamming.  
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December 04, 2013, 02:21:40 PM
 #2051

Selling 100 @ 0.15 each. Have done several trades before.

Regards,
Sean.
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December 04, 2013, 02:23:36 PM
 #2052

Selling 100 @ 0.15 each. Have done several trades before.
For example, I've traded with Olimpiata.  I think there are many more reliable folks than bad guys. 
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December 04, 2013, 02:59:19 PM
 #2053

- Warning -
[/color]
I wanted to trade with peezr 20 MSC @ 0.11 yesterday.
Lesson learnt – DON’T trade without Escrow.
This is a real shame.  But I have to report the other side of this story too.  I've made several trades now - some including pure faith.  Most people here are straight up.  So, the good news is that scammers probably think MSC is a bit to hard to use for good quick scamming. 


I thought peezr is an honest guy based on this link he sent me:  http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=peezr&sign=ANY&type=RECV

I am sure there are a lot of honest traders, another great example is Faraday. proof that he is trustworthy here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=287145.msg3786711#msg3786711

Therefore what you are saying is probably true but I still think it’s best to have a valid prof that the seller is trust worthy if you are not going to use an escrow. Believe me that you don’t want to be the one that gets scammed even if it’s rare like you say.

Also new buyers don’t always know how to check if the seller has MSC or not, and how the escrow service works exactly. The community should do the best efforts to protect those new buyers – that’s the only reason I posted my advice.

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December 04, 2013, 03:29:57 PM
 #2054

If a seller has 500 msc on his address i'm sure he don't wanna burn his reputation and its ability to sell more just for scam 2 or 5 BTC
I thinks it's could be difficult for him with a scammer tag.
So small buyer, checking the MSC address before going first out of escrow it's maybe a good advice.

Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.
it has lots of buttery taste..
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December 04, 2013, 04:15:54 PM
 #2055

This is becoming a big problem.  Buyers get frustrated by sending 8 e-mails and getting no answer.  We need a rule which clears the books of orders which are not valid/active.  

RULE:  When your order is part of a crossed book - and more than 3 days old - it gets removed.  Both on the buy side - and the sell side.  If a user doesn't like that his order was removed, he only needs to renew it on the 4th day to completely restore his offer.  No problem.  Much cleaner book.  Efficiency is restored as buyer and seller will only be seeking a deal on real active offers.

Yes, this indeed is a problem, the overlap really got out of hands recently.

pKnowles, I like your suggestion, this could be a good solution. Before implementing this I'd like to think a little more about it, I will post an update soon.
If anyone has a better solution to this problem, please let me know.

I have to say that as a seller I had the same problem with buyers. While I honored the only sell I've been involved in, despite of the price going up during the sale, when the price went down because of the reddit attack I tried to sell MSC sending PM to at least 5 buyers and I got no answer at all... Until 5 days passed and the price went up again - then the sellers replied me if I was still willing to sell 20% below the market price... That's lame. Some rule should apply.
+1
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December 04, 2013, 07:16:10 PM
 #2056

can you remove my order please.
Order book updated.

Maybe traders should send beforehand funds to Maxmint/Pouncer and they do the deals with a fee included for them!
Maybe a little too complex - but...
A hybrid includes 'funded' offers.  A green shading behind an offer in the order book indicates funds are already on deposit with the escrow agent.  All one has to do to claim the offer is send the counter funding!  Deals done instantly.  Not as good as the DEx - but far more efficient than what we have today. 

I like this idea, this would make trading a whole lot easier and faster for both sellers and buyers.
On the other hand it would massively increase my and Pouncer's workload and expose us to the risk of holding other people's Mastercoins.
So we definitely would have to charge a fee for this. But I guess most of you wouldn't mind a small fee for a service like this.

My PGP-Key: 462D02D8
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December 04, 2013, 07:47:13 PM
 #2057

can you remove my order please.
Order book updated.

Maybe traders should send beforehand funds to Maxmint/Pouncer and they do the deals with a fee included for them!
Maybe a little too complex - but...
A hybrid includes 'funded' offers.  A green shading behind an offer in the order book indicates funds are already on deposit with the escrow agent.  All one has to do to claim the offer is send the counter funding!  Deals done instantly.  Not as good as the DEx - but far more efficient than what we have today. 

I like this idea, this would make trading a whole lot easier and faster for both sellers and buyers.
On the other hand it would massively increase my and Pouncer's workload and expose us to the risk of holding other people's Mastercoins.
So we definitely would have to charge a fee for this. But I guess most of you wouldn't mind a small fee for a service like this.

The beautiful thing about such a situation is that it doesn't impose or force anything - it lets the market decide.  I strongly suspect that funded offers will be heavily favored, and likely command a premium. That will take the place of large orders currently commanding a premium.

This will take profits away from those actively arbitraging the coins...but putting those profits into the growth of Mastercoin through easier transactions is in every holder's best interests.  Further, it gives even more justification to reward Pouncer and Maxmint for their substantial efforts.

Anything that reduces transactional friction opens the door for greater adoption.

I hope we give this revision a shot.

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December 04, 2013, 07:58:51 PM
 #2058

I like this idea, this would make trading a whole lot easier and faster for both sellers and buyers.
On the other hand it would massively increase my and Pouncer's workload and expose us to the risk of holding other people's Mastercoins.
So we definitely would have to charge a fee for this. But I guess most of you wouldn't mind a small fee for a service like this.
Normally, I'd be the very last guy to agree with fees.  But, you have done a remarkable, wonderfully good job making this market liquid.  You've made me money personally, and you've contributed tremendously to the valuation of Mastercoin.  

You've already earned your fees.  I am sure I and the others will be happy to pay them as we go forward from here.


On the other hand, Pouncer not nearly as much.  The guy became an escrow agent one day.  The next day - he started suggesting trading limits.  
Just last week, I ask him a special favor to process a deal with my private key.  I didn't have access to my Armory.  He simply told me to take a hike.  There were also other things I asked of Pouncer - he said: 'can't help'.  Right after I got the rejections from Pouncer, I sent Max a message.  Two minutes later Max took my private key and executed the deal.  It was very important for me to get that done.  Because of Max, $40,000 deal done in just 10 minutes.

Max is awesome X10.  Pouncer is nice and useful, but struggles to provide help without complaining.  Max has also been here since the beginning.  He set the tone and style of the market.  I wish Max would get a far greater percentage of the fees.  Either way, I'll be paying whatever it is because the fees are well earned.  

You both have done a great job to make a very fun and worthy market.  You should be pleased with the result.  I know nearly every trader is pleased and profitable.

Let's set up the new system - with fees.  The DEx is a long way out (it is pretty complex).  I am glad you like the idea of funded offers with green highlights in the order book.  This will really facilitate transactions as they are instantly executed upon sending the asked/bid price.  I think this will be pretty cool.


Anything that reduces transactional friction opens the door for greater adoption.
+++
Free liquid markets help all participants.  Thanks to Max and Pouncer - and thanks to their continued efforts.  I for one am happy to pay fees.  




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Voodah
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December 04, 2013, 10:24:23 PM
 #2059

This is a dumb idea and will only encourage the creation of an alternate buyer/seller thread without fees.

Stop fragmenting the MSC community. Enough has been done already between the Coloured coins guy, the JR discussion and the change of forum.

Please reconsider.

klee
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December 04, 2013, 10:28:38 PM
 #2060

This is a dumb idea and will only encourage the creation of an alternate buyer/seller thread without fees.

Stop fragmenting the MSC community. Enough has been done already between the Coloured coins guy, the JR discussion and the change of forum.

Please reconsider.
So why don't you offer to help with the escrow? And keeping order book updated? Let's see how you handle it...
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