AforAmethyst
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October 14, 2015, 03:43:32 PM
Last edit: October 14, 2015, 04:24:44 PM by AforAmethyst |
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(My thoughts in italics).Yeah I want to invest in this coin more heavily but right now this is suffering from:
1. Uncertainty over next wallet hard fork.
- Maybe Thundertoe is busy working on this and news from him on the direction he is taking would help dispel uncertainty.
2. The solution to the current difficulty manipulation is going to hurt small/newer investors, which is bad
- It wouldn't be bad for smaller investors if the POS % is linked to the coin supply as others have suggested.
3. People are dumping TEK due to #1-#2, which means people with money like me won't pull trigger to invest, yet.
TEK coin is very rich people friendly, which is why it's valuable but it's the new people who adopt it that breathe life into it. The sooner the hard fork occurs the sooner we get back to normal. Cutting returns or rewards always ends in disaster because alt coins need to be worth minting/mining to bother with. Everyone here seems very happy to get 40% with the current structure so at least I know after the hard fork the rewards will increase (in fact that's why we're having hard fork, to get back that high reward).
- I'd be happy with a system that is fair for everybody, even if the POS reward falls. If the system is can be gamed by those who are in a position to do so, then people will lose interest (no pun intended).
And proof of stake coins are better suited to centralization since it promotes a savers/holders mentality, so it's fine. A 51% attack on POS only hurts the person doing the attacking mostly from what I understand.
- Is this right, only the attacker would be hurt in a 51% attack on a POS coin? What about the miners who mine the POW part of this coin?
Hopefully Thundertoe can clue us in on how close the new wallet is coming to do the hard fork so we can get this over with.
So what's the feeling on the options of preventing the smaller amounts from staking, or linking POS % to the coin supply, ... or any other solution? I reckon that linking the % to the coin supply is the fairest and most effective option in securing the future of TEKcoin.
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gribgo
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October 14, 2015, 04:33:24 PM |
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Have two things in mind: 1 - Will the auto-combine will bring more supply for the market to lower the price! thats for sure! 2 - Is not that matter - the freedom of choice! you can contribute to security by holding small blocks in the wallet! You cant dictate people in what fractions do they want their blocks in their own wallets! so no communizm please  peace So, I would add this only as the option in the wallet.. so we dont need hardfork that will lower the security of the POS coin |
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thundertoe (OP)
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October 15, 2015, 02:32:29 PM |
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thundertoe (OP)
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October 15, 2015, 02:35:51 PM |
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So what's the feeling on the options of preventing the smaller amounts from staking, or linking POS % to the coin supply, ... or any other solution? I reckon that linking the % to the coin supply is the fairest and most effective option in securing the future of TEKcoin.
Preventing smaller amounts from staking is very unfair and draconian towards poorer or not well funded newcomers and investors. Any cryptocurrency should be poor friendly (after all, most people in thsi world are poor but you want them to adopt something that could give them a shot at the good life). Linking pos reward to coin supply could work but I'm going to guess that could imply that rewards go down as supply naturally increases, which I think is going to kill the value of Tekcoin, as it does every other coin. Could try linking rewards to block sizes, and giving higher rewards to larger blocks. If it can't be helped, maybe no rewards for blocks of size less than 100 or 150. Then: 0-150 Tek no reward, 151-400 5-15%, 401-700TEK 20%, etc etc. This is just an example. The problem is, reward is still somewhat tied to difficulty and frequency of stake according the rules of Tekcoin. So manipulators will jsut manipulate through the next smallest eligible block size. Making something fair for everyone is VERY difficult to do. Part of the problem is I can't figure out a "compromise" that let's everyone "kind of win". Someone has to lose it seems. That's an uncertainty I'm not comfortable with. I invest in other pos coins like bitbean, hyperstake, and quotient coin. I use to do netcoin (pretty solid but I wasn't happy with the returns). Tekcoin is the first coin I've encountered where there's a real problem that prevented me from investing a large amount of $ into it due to said problem. Hopefully this gets resolved soon. in the Spirit of giving the assholes who are intentionally doing this as much punishment as possible while making it as hard as we can for them to try it again... 1k+ or nothing is more effective. Though to future proof it somewhat it will likely be more like this, 1k is what % of moneysupply.. if trying to stake under that floating % that will keep rising with mintage.. you get squat. |
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CryptoWiz420
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October 15, 2015, 03:08:17 PM |
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So what's the feeling on the options of preventing the smaller amounts from staking, or linking POS % to the coin supply, ... or any other solution? I reckon that linking the % to the coin supply is the fairest and most effective option in securing the future of TEKcoin.
Preventing smaller amounts from staking is very unfair and draconian towards poorer or not well funded newcomers and investors. Any cryptocurrency should be poor friendly (after all, most people in thsi world are poor but you want them to adopt something that could give them a shot at the good life). Linking pos reward to coin supply could work but I'm going to guess that could imply that rewards go down as supply naturally increases, which I think is going to kill the value of Tekcoin, as it does every other coin. Could try linking rewards to block sizes, and giving higher rewards to larger blocks. If it can't be helped, maybe no rewards for blocks of size less than 100 or 150. Then: 0-150 Tek no reward, 151-400 5-15%, 401-700TEK 20%, etc etc. This is just an example. The problem is, reward is still somewhat tied to difficulty and frequency of stake according the rules of Tekcoin. So manipulators will jsut manipulate through the next smallest eligible block size. Making something fair for everyone is VERY difficult to do. Part of the problem is I can't figure out a "compromise" that let's everyone "kind of win". Someone has to lose it seems. That's an uncertainty I'm not comfortable with. I invest in other pos coins like bitbean, hyperstake, and quotient coin. I use to do netcoin (pretty solid but I wasn't happy with the returns). Tekcoin is the first coin I've encountered where there's a real problem that prevented me from investing a large amount of $ into it due to said problem. Hopefully this gets resolved soon. in the Spirit of giving the assholes who are intentionally doing this as much punishment as possible while making it as hard as we can for them to try it again... 1k+ or nothing is more effective. Though to future proof it somewhat it will likely be more like this, 1k is what % of moneysupply.. if trying to stake under that floating % that will keep rising with mintage.. you get squat. So the percent will rise how quickly do you estimate? |
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thundertoe (OP)
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October 15, 2015, 03:37:42 PM |
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So what's the feeling on the options of preventing the smaller amounts from staking, or linking POS % to the coin supply, ... or any other solution? I reckon that linking the % to the coin supply is the fairest and most effective option in securing the future of TEKcoin.
Preventing smaller amounts from staking is very unfair and draconian towards poorer or not well funded newcomers and investors. Any cryptocurrency should be poor friendly (after all, most people in thsi world are poor but you want them to adopt something that could give them a shot at the good life). Linking pos reward to coin supply could work but I'm going to guess that could imply that rewards go down as supply naturally increases, which I think is going to kill the value of Tekcoin, as it does every other coin. Could try linking rewards to block sizes, and giving higher rewards to larger blocks. If it can't be helped, maybe no rewards for blocks of size less than 100 or 150. Then: 0-150 Tek no reward, 151-400 5-15%, 401-700TEK 20%, etc etc. This is just an example. The problem is, reward is still somewhat tied to difficulty and frequency of stake according the rules of Tekcoin. So manipulators will jsut manipulate through the next smallest eligible block size. Making something fair for everyone is VERY difficult to do. Part of the problem is I can't figure out a "compromise" that let's everyone "kind of win". Someone has to lose it seems. That's an uncertainty I'm not comfortable with. I invest in other pos coins like bitbean, hyperstake, and quotient coin. I use to do netcoin (pretty solid but I wasn't happy with the returns). Tekcoin is the first coin I've encountered where there's a real problem that prevented me from investing a large amount of $ into it due to said problem. Hopefully this gets resolved soon. in the Spirit of giving the assholes who are intentionally doing this as much punishment as possible while making it as hard as we can for them to try it again... 1k+ or nothing is more effective. Though to future proof it somewhat it will likely be more like this, 1k is what % of moneysupply.. if trying to stake under that floating % that will keep rising with mintage.. you get squat. So the percent will rise how quickly do you estimate? pulling a number out of the air maybe 20%? starting at 1k then to be safe for 30 days you would need to put in 150% of that. max growth protection say chain grows 40% your 1k could be too little by stake day. |
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ClioRS
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October 15, 2015, 05:26:59 PM |
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skunk
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October 15, 2015, 06:03:29 PM |
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could somebody please tell me with what formula was the staking percentage graph on op drawed? is 15% at 0.003 the lowest interest or may it decrease even more? thank you! nobody really knows how to calculate staking % given the pos difficulty? |
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aSmallChild666
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October 15, 2015, 10:01:32 PM |
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Communism?!?! What are you talking about? Have two things in mind: 1 - Will the auto-combine will bring more supply for the market to lower the price! thats for sure! 2 - Is not that matter - the freedom of choice! you can contribute to security by holding small blocks in the wallet! You cant dictate people in what fractions do they want their blocks in their own wallets! so no communizm please peace So, I would add this only as the option in the wallet.. so we dont need hardfork that will lower the security of the POS coin |
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aSmallChild666
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October 15, 2015, 10:07:32 PM |
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I have an idea that I think would solve it fairly with only short term pain to the lazy and the manipulators.
Whatever size blocks you have or coin supply is irrelevant. Instead, only allow a wallet to mint once or twice per day.
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gribgo
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October 15, 2015, 10:15:02 PM |
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I am not really sure that dude is an AsShole?! All play by the same rule, if there is someone who have found the way to cheat.. then we can all agree and do a FIX and move on.. everybody just jump into new wallet and thats it!!! This people will have to do this.. or they will make thair own coin choose or do a fork from this brilliant coin or go after some other smart commodities Sorry for my english this evening  |
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Enema
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October 15, 2015, 10:58:16 PM |
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I am not really sure that dude is an AsShole?! All play by the same rule, if there is someone who have found the way to cheat.. then we can all agree and do a FIX and move on.. everybody just jump into new wallet and thats it!!! This people will have to do this.. or they will make thair own coin choose or do a fork from this brilliant coin or go after some other smart commodities Sorry for my english this evening +1000 These ppl who are "gaming" the system can only do so because of the person who created this retarded POS scheme. They don't cheat as such but make use of the rules. So if you don't like it fix it instead of calling them ass holes ! ( For the 3rd time... ) Why don't you guys use coin supply to adjust % instead of network load ?  |
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Ztraven
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October 16, 2015, 12:12:37 AM
Last edit: October 16, 2015, 12:22:44 AM by Ztraven |
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I am not really sure that dude is an AsShole?! All play by the same rule, if there is someone who have found the way to cheat.. then we can all agree and do a FIX and move on.. everybody just jump into new wallet and thats it!!! This people will have to do this.. or they will make thair own coin choose or do a fork from this brilliant coin or go after some other smart commodities Sorry for my english this evening +1000 These ppl who are "gaming" the system can only do so because of the person who created this retarded POS scheme. They don't cheat as such but make use of the rules. So if you don't like it fix it instead of calling them ass holes ! ( For the 3rd time... ) Why don't you guys use coin supply to adjust % instead of network load ? I would agree with you on linking the percentage payout to the coin supply and cutting the link with the network load. I would like to see micro-amounts prevented from staking for reasons I've stated before and Thundertoe is doing that with an amount he has adjudged to be the best value. Thundertoe was not pointing the finger at anyone in particular with his 'asshole' comment and it seemed to me that there could have been several reasons why he made it, although I have seen a steady stream of worse examples over the last few days. If I remember rightly, Thundertoe has been consistent in sticking to the 40% staking possibility for quite some time now. Perhaps he sees that as TEKcoin's 'unique selling point' and wants to retain that claim to fame? Linking the percentage to the coin supply would make 40% increasingly unachievable and lose that USP - making it more like other POS coins. However, I think that it will become inevitable that he will have to bite the bullet on this one at some point in the future. For the now though, let's let Thundertoe get on with it. He has heard what the community have had to say. I'm sure that he will take that into account with the decisions he will be making. |
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aSmallChild666
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October 16, 2015, 12:50:10 AM |
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I'd be OK with the 1000TEK minimum thing. I don't see it as a problem for noobs because 1000TEK is only worth about $5. That is not investing. That is just getting in the way. You can make more money from the cans in your own rubbish bin. However, 1000TEK will become inadequate at some point. Lowering the reward with increased coin supply will kill the coin, possibly; maybe not though. I certainly won't become a millionaire though. That means I would dump a LOT at some point and I doubt I'm the only one.
It took me awhile, until I saw the mass of 1 TEK stakes at the second address listed above to figure it out. I really think a limit on the number of times a WALLET can stake per day is the way to go, notwithstanding technical/coding difficulty.
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CryptoWiz420
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October 16, 2015, 03:31:37 AM |
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I am not really sure that dude is an AsShole?! All play by the same rule, if there is someone who have found the way to cheat.. then we can all agree and do a FIX and move on.. everybody just jump into new wallet and thats it!!! This people will have to do this.. or they will make thair own coin choose or do a fork from this brilliant coin or go after some other smart commodities Sorry for my english this evening +1000 These ppl who are "gaming" the system can only do so because of the person who created this retarded POS scheme. They don't cheat as such but make use of the rules. So if you don't like it fix it instead of calling them ass holes ! ( For the 3rd time... ) Why don't you guys use coin supply to adjust % instead of network load ?  |
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AforAmethyst
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October 17, 2015, 03:20:10 AM |
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 GREED is GOODWe can't be having it fair for everyone can we? It's not fair! |
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Libertymind
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October 17, 2015, 04:49:09 AM |
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My opinion is , if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Seems to me that it would be better to create a whole new coin with the wanted changes. We are all in tek coin because of the way it is currently. I am proud of the fact that smaller amounts stake fine, when other coins only reward whales properly. That's my two cents and the last i will say about it.
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Woody20285
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Supporting DMD, ERC & PIO
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October 17, 2015, 05:21:45 AM |
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My opinion is , if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Seems to me that it would be better to create a whole new coin with the wanted changes. We are all in tek coin because of the way it is currently. I am proud of the fact that smaller amounts stake fine, when other coins only reward whales properly. That's my two cents and the last i will say about it.
If there is not a change then, everyone will stake small amounts and it will really be broken. |
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thundertoe (OP)
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October 17, 2015, 04:44:47 PM |
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My opinion is , if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Seems to me that it would be better to create a whole new coin with the wanted changes. We are all in tek coin because of the way it is currently. I am proud of the fact that smaller amounts stake fine, when other coins only reward whales properly. That's my two cents and the last i will say about it.
If there is not a change then, everyone will stake small amounts and it will really be broken. you do not earn more if you microstake.. its a dick move to raise diff when you want to make others get nothing when they stake.. then you stop micro staking and turn on your whale wallet and get full rate. Microstaking alone does fuck all to increase your payout, a larger block will compound more. |
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JPred
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my magic is growing strong[er]
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October 17, 2015, 09:21:51 PM
Last edit: March 01, 2016, 05:15:17 PM by JPred |
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I have been thinking lately about TEK and I think I have an idea that might just work....maybe.... and its this: instead of listing the rich list with the top 100 richest addresses only, why not also list the bottom 100 poorest addresses (on a continual basis so its not a one time thing for just certain holders) and then let charity do its thing, let the hearts of people do what make people feel better about themselves. Maybe TEK can have something that auto-transfers a chosen % when staking to go to some dev fund/charity/education or whomever to help others.
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FREEDOM
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