NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[opticalcarrier]

Alright so i need a little help understanding something. I have two servers running on two separate computers. Both servers have the same account unlocked. I know the answer is going to be no, but i just want to understand how and why.. Does this double my chances of forging a block?

it doesnt, and in fact I believe CfB has stated in the past that this is a very bad practice, for reasons I cant understand though.  does anyone know why this is bad?  And if its so bad, what do we need to work on to mitigate the threat?

Yeah id love to see the reasoning. Im hoping we can get some insight. Thank you for the reply, ill stick to just one server then.

It doesn't double the chance to forge a block, but when you do forge a block, you will do it twice and thus, you are creating a fork.

This seems to be a serious attack possibility.  what happens if a whale or pool operator goes rogue and starts forging from 100 different public VPSs?

[Damelon]

If we need speakers, some more techy people should step forward. We have asked for them more than once, because most of us know we are limited in that, but so far none has come forward.

Ahem.   

Not aimed at you AT ALL! I really hope you don't think that.

I mean for all the other conferences. You were already slated for this one.

But let's face it: it's a fact we don't have enough people with the knowledge to field questions from smart people to answer them indepth.

I can hold a general stirring speech, but that would be just a lot of hot air as far as a technical audience is concerned and is a weak point for conferences.

Even joefox has already said he doesn't consider himself to be knowledgeable enough.

So, once again: please step up and help out. We shóuld have a technical expert at conferences! I know how scary it can be, but we NEED you people

It's also fun and there is grub to be had!

[rickyjames]

We are in war with Ethereum (for those who have not understood it yet).

+1.  +1.  +1.

Etherium had a HUGE recognition and visibility advantage over NXT.  We are going to have quite a hard fight to overcome that.  I predict when they finally do come out, they will instantly be over NXT on coinmarketcap.    

What's their ETA now?

Has anyone been in contact with any of the whales that are not spending?

They have  a keynote speaker spot at Texas Bitcoin Conference on March 5.  I'll report.

Is there going to be a speaker for nxt? Or were the documents sent too late?

I have been assigned to be on the "Alt Currencies" panel.  I was prepared to be a speaker and lobbied hard to get on their roster.  In the end, I don't think that the timing / delay in sending in the registration documents had anything to do with NXT not getting a speaker slot.  I think it all comes down to money.  All the speakers are all either really big in the bitcoin world or they paid premium fees to be speakers.  NXT officially bought in at the conference "Supporter" level, which is at the bottom rung of the ladder and does not specifically state that you get to speak.   Plus, Salsa negotiated our gig as "Supporter" for only $1000 instead of the usual $2500.  We got a bargain, but scraping in on the bottom does not get you put in front of the crowd holding a microphone.

[opticalcarrier]

who can refute my idea?

Try writing your idea in math or in a simulator rather than just trying to ask people to "refute" it.

how many accounts are you running in each simulation instance?  Just a few will not cut it and is not a good representation of how TF works in the wild.  See the source code transparent forging thread, I believe it was, for more info on this.  You need to model as many accounts as possible, I would say at least 100 per simulation run.

[opticalcarrier]

Maybe, I missed that part: why are streaks dangerous?

Without penalty or some other approach the forger who gets a long streak can "undo that many confirmations" by building a "secret" chain.

you know, im really embarassed to have to ask this question, but can you go into even more detail here?  IM just not seeing it

[rickyjames]

** Cryptsy Update **

I just heard back from Paul (met him at the Miami Bitcoin Conference), they are looking to implement Nxt in the next few weeks.

I talked with Big Vern @Skype and I introduced CfB to him - he said he will talk to Paul about it (to get help from CfB if needed).

Fantastic. I did a virtual introduction with all the different devs including CfB and Jean-Luc a few weeks ago as well... they have the resources, now it's just a matter of finding time to implement. Nxt keeps taking another step.

Let me make a suggestion to keep this ball rolling.  We should ask the Cryptsy folks to document what was required to get NXT plugged into their system.  Then we should turn right around to allwelder or some of the other Chinese NXT members and see that this info from Cryptsy gets communicated to BTX38.com in China.  We need to be on both of these exchanges as soon as possible.  It is the only way we are going to get exposure to a new pool of capital to buy NXT and get our exchange volume back up.  

[CommanderVenus]

Alright so i need a little help understanding something. I have two servers running on two separate computers. Both servers have the same account unlocked. I know the answer is going to be no, but i just want to understand how and why.. Does this double my chances of forging a block?

it doesnt, and in fact I believe CfB has stated in the past that this is a very bad practice, for reasons I cant understand though.  does anyone know why this is bad?  And if its so bad, what do we need to work on to mitigate the threat?

Yeah id love to see the reasoning. Im hoping we can get some insight. Thank you for the reply, ill stick to just one server then.

It doesn't double the chance to forge a block, but when you do forge a block, you will do it twice and thus, you are creating a fork.

This seems to be a serious attack possibility.  what happens if a whale or pool operator goes rogue and starts forging from 100 different public VPSs?

Yes, this seems to be a huge flaw with NXT..

[salsacz]

faucet thief, mr. Tyr
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=9926628152381768858

[Damelon]

faucet thief, mr. Tyr
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=9926628152381768858

Working three full days for 34 Nxt.

Now THAT is dedication! 

[cc001]

faucet thief, mr. Tyr
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=9926628152381768858

Working three full days for 34 Nxt.

Now THAT is dedication! 

jep, he deserves this Nxt for his work

[CIYAM]

how many accounts are you running in each simulation instance?  Just a few will not cut it and is not a good representation of how TF works in the wild.  See the source code thread, I believe it was, for more info on this.  You need to model as many accounts as possible, I would say at least 100 per simulation run.

I have increased the number of accounts and changed some other things to head towards a better idea but basically it should be possible to "scale down" the numbers without greatly affecting the results at all (of course scaling down to just 2 or 3 accounts is not a good idea).

[opticalcarrier]

I don't get your idea, or I get it. I don't know.

Instead of leasing forge power, you commit with your account to share fees among others in the same "share fee group" if you forge a node. You still try to forge a block on your own, but you commit to share the incentive with others if you are successful (with special conditions like committing to run the node for some time, ...). Could this be done with AT and would that make sense?

there really isnt much point in this mechanism.  what you are describing is basically a rube goldberg contraption that produces the exact result of current NXT account/network forging

[Isildur23]

"This means that a person wishing to retain their wealth across what could be many decades of
biostasis might attempt do so by memorizing their access code and destroying any physical record of it –putting this wealth
out of circulation until their future revival with memories intact. Technical and legal questions abound, but the idea may give
fresh reason to doubt the phase “You can’t take it with you.” "
from http://brainpreservation.org/sites/default/files/PressRelease_OneMillionNXTCoinDonationToBPF.pdf

Nice! Lets spread it!

[BloodyRookie]

It doesn't double the chance to forge a block, but when you do forge a block, you will do it twice and thus, you are creating a fork.

This seems to be a serious attack possibility.  what happens if a whale or pool operator goes rogue and starts forging from 100 different public VPSs?

I think CfB mentioned somewhere in this thread that accounts that do such evil things get punished in a future version of NRS.

[CIYAM]

you know, im really embarassed to have to ask this question, but can you go into even more detail here?  IM just not seeing it

In particular if your node is "behind" then you won't see that someone is now sending "blocks from the past" to you (if you did you might decide to ignore them) so they would have to be considered just as valid as any other versions of "blocks from the past" you are fed.

If you are being fed blocks from a "secret chain" that was not broadcast before then your node will simply decide based upon "total weight" which chain is better.

If the "secret" chain had "greater weight" then that will become your "main chain" and if that gets propagated across the network then "confirmations will be *undone*".

[opticalcarrier]

Very strange. On 0.8.xe versions after several hours my node always forks. That was not the case on 0.7.x. I usually forged >1 block a day but on 0.8 i got nothing  
Downgrading.

mine doesnt fork, but every few hours my 0.8.1e forging NRS node just hangs on a block and stops receiving new blocks.  I upgraded to 0.8.2e, same thing.

All 25 of my nonforging public/hallmarked VPSs on 0.8.1e can keep the latest block though.  ??

[gmoneycoin]

Just talked to bittrex, they have only 86 signups from nxt at the moment..

You should all go and sign up.

Go to https://bittrex.com/Account/Register and use SUPPORT_NXT as the invite code. This gets you past the invite code queue. Place some trades, enabled 2FA, or try any of our other features to help us stress the site before the final launch. If you find a bug, we're handing out bug bounties as well. Having a great exchange helps us but also helps the NXT community.

Done. Testing trading some DOGE until they add NXT.  

[redsn0w]

Someone wants a bit of TestNxt  ??

[msin]

Just talked to bittrex, they have only 86 signups from nxt at the moment..

You should all go and sign up.

Go to https://bittrex.com/Account/Register and use SUPPORT_NXT as the invite code. This gets you past the invite code queue. Place some trades, enabled 2FA, or try any of our other features to help us stress the site before the final launch. If you find a bug, we're handing out bug bounties as well. Having a great exchange helps us but also helps the NXT community.

Done. Testing trading some DOGE until they add NXT.  

Received this from Bittrex, please don't bother signing up any more until we have clarification they can add Nxt.

"Sigh, we just hit a huge technical hurdle that is going to delay this;  I'm not sure we have an easy way around this without doing a lot of core engine restructuring which is super scary.  

I will keep you updated "

I've asked them for more specifics.

[igmaca]

I don't get your idea, or I get it. I don't know.

Instead of leasing forge power, you commit with your account to share fees among others in the same "share fee group" if you forge a node. You still try to forge a block on your own, but you commit to share the incentive with others if you are successful (with special conditions like committing to run the node for some time, ...). Could this be done with AT and would that make sense?

there really isnt much point in this mechanism.  what you are describing is basically a rube goldberg contraption that produces the exact result of current NXT account/network forging

not exactly see you in maths

leasing forging power of a account to another account to create pools

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool

John account  90.000 Nxt 0 Node participate in forging
Mary account  9.900 Nxt 0 Node participate in forging
Bob account  100 Nxt 0 Node participate in forging

Total pool 100.000 Nxt 1 Node paticipate in forging
Total 1 Node participate in forging

Chance to forge 0,0001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
52,6 Blocs per year
aprox 1 Bloc per week

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool
10.000 Node participate in forging

share fee group

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)

John account  90.000 Nxt 1 Node participate in forging
Mary account  9.900 Nxt 1 Node participate in forging
Bob account  100 Nxt 1 Node participate in forging

Total pool (share fee group) 100.000 Nxt
Total Nodes 3 Node participate in forging

Chance to forge 0,0001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
52,6 Blocs per year
aprox 1 Bloc per week

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
100.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)
30.000 Nodes participate in forging. if there are only three accounts linked per pool (share fee group)

I am wrong?

I suppose 30,000 nodes are sufficient to ensure the network

Now imagine if I am correct with 1,000,000 Nxt coins pools (share fee group)

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)

10 accounts  90.000 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts  9.900 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging
10 accounts  100 Nxt 10 Node participate in forging

Total pool (share fee group) 1.000.000 Nxt
Total 30 Nodes participate in forging

Chance to forge 0,001
rate forging 1440 blocs per day
526 Blocs per year
aprox 1,44 Blocs per day. 100 Nxt account is forging every day. receives fees in proportion to their funds every day!!!

1.000.000.000 Nxt Coin
1.000.000 Nxt Coin per pool (share fee group)
30.000 Nodes participate in forging. if there are only 30 accounts linked per pool (share fee group)

this means;

Extremely decentralized network (in the exemple 30.000 Nodes) Small accounts motivated to participate in forging (In the exemple 100 Nxt account is forging every day)
You just have to solve for the fees to be sufficiently attractive.

An interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased computing power
Other interesting idea is to pay for other things like leased memory storage capacity